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According to IMDB Wayne's left lung was removed in September 1964 and The Sons of Katie Elder premiered 9 months later 16 August 1965. But when was The Sons of Katie Elder filmed? Movies are often filmed about a year before being released.
But IMDB trivia section says:
"This picture marked the return of John Wayne to work after having a cancerous lung and two ribs removed just four months earlier. He insisted on doing some of his own stunts to show the public that the illness hadn't slowed him down."
and:
"Filming was due to begin in October 1964, but had to be delayed until January 1965 after John Wayne was diagnosed with lung cancer."
So the OP is correct. And if the OP had given the sources I wouldn't have suspected he was just making assumptions about the filming date.
And that is very impressive for John Wayne.
You mean she must have been the really elder Elder!
John Elder was played by John Wayne who turned 58 in 1965, the year The Sons of Katie Elder was released.
Tom Elder was played by Dean Martin who turned 48 in 1965.
Matt Elder was played by Earl Holliman who turned 37 in 1965.
Bud Elder was played by Michael Anderson, Jr. who turned 22 in 1965.
The actors might have been a year or two younger than the above ages at the time their scenes were filmed.
If the characters were the same ages as their actors Katie Elder could have been less than 80 when she died. If she was 16 years older than John and John was age 56 to 58 she would have died age 72 to 74. And then she would have been about 50 to 54 when Bud was born, which would have been highly unusually old.
Before modern reproductive medicine, the Guinness Book of World Records listed the oldest proven natural mother as being 57 years older than her daughter.
But I don't know if the characters are supposed to be the same ages as their actors. I don't remember any data about the character ages in the movies.
Their ages are discussed here:
https://moviechat.org/tt0059740/The-Sons-of-Katie-Elder/58c726b75ec57f0478ef1fd5/ages-of-the-sons
There were only a few western town movie sets so if you look closely you will see the same western town set in movie after movie.
The same same thing goes for western movie fort sets. There were only a few that kept showing up in movie and TV show after movie.
For example, the fort set at Corriganville near LA was used for Fort Apache (1948), the Adventures of Rin Tin Tin (1954-59), and many others. The Kanab Movie Fort at Kanab, Utah was used for many movies like Tomahawk Trail (1957), Sergeants 3 (1962), etc. The Last Frontier/Savage Wilderness (1955) and The seventh cavalry (1956) both use a distinctive fort set with a split level parade ground that is also seen in The Guns of Fort Petticoat (1957). I think that fort set was in Mexico.
Oh! I just watched The Last Wagon on TV today 10-29-2017 and didn't think to look for hairstyle changes. And I didn't notice them either.
Probably the two (?) deputies are not mentioned in the charges against Comanche Todd because the kids never heard about them and neither they nor Todd would want to add to the charges against Todd.
I guess the four guilty Harper brothers (there may have been other, innocent Harper brothers involved in the story) went somewhere hundreds of miles from white law, like the Staked Plains in dangerous Comanche territory before the Comanche were put on the reservation after the Red River War of 1874-1875. Why is not explained. Maybe the Harpers were comancheros which would be a point in Todd's favor. Sheriff Harper either took a long leave of absence from his sheriff job or else didn't get the job until he reached Arizona.
Anyway, the Harper's found Todd's place and raped and murdered his wife and his little sons, and shot Comanche Todd and left him for dead. Comanche Todd recovered and tracked them for hundreds of miles through Texas, New mexico, and Arizona to the town Harper was the sheriff of. At or near the town Todd may have murdered zero, one, two or three Harper brothers. Sheriff Harper may have captured Todd who may have been tried and convicted and sentenced to hang, I'm not sure.
If jailed, Todd escaped and went east. Sheriff Harper convinced the territorial government, then in Tuscon, to put a thousand dollar reward for capturing Todd and then set out for revenge and profit. Maybe Sheriff Harper arranged Todd's escape and the reward so that Todd would not have much of a head start.
Sheriff Harper started chasing Todd with a posse of at least three other men that included zero, or one, or two, or three Harper brothers beside him - the men that Todd killed at the beginning.
No they weren't hanged.
Watching the movie again I noticed that the cavalry were riding in retreat very close to the cadets running after them. Even though the horsemen should have been faster than the running boys. Thus the cavalry should have started riding away just seconds before the beginning of the shot.
And I think that was cutting it too close. The cavalry should have either ruthlessly charged the boys and scattered them and then rode to capture the battery that was shooting at them, or else should have retreated as soon as the shells started to strike their camp and as soon as they saw infantry approaching. Since Marlowe said they should avoid fighting as a general rule, they should have retreated before the cadets were close enough to see that they were kids.
It looked like that part of the brigade let the kids get within about ten or twenty feet before riding away. And that was way too close. If any of the kids still had loaded muskets they could have shot down the soldiers right in front of them. How could they have missed at that range?
The cavalry should have retreated long before letting the enemy got that close. As far as I can tell, the only reason some of them weren't killed and wounded was because the cannon balls and musket balls read the script and knew that nobody was going to be shot in that scene.
A lot of infantrymen said they never saw a dead cavalryman, implying that the cavalry were cowards who rode away to safety on their horses when things got dangerous. If I had been there I would have proven them right long before the cadets got that close.
If you wonder how accurate Hollywood got the costumes, culture, and customs of various Indian tribes and nations, study how accurate they got the costumes, culture, and customs of the "cavalry tribe" despite those being much easier to research. Errors in the depiction of the "cavalry tribe" certainly don't make one confident in the depiction of the far more alien and exotic Indian tribes.
And see my post "These boots are made for riding".
However, they didn't have to worry about all of the tribes listed. Some, like the Sioux and Cheyenne, for example, but not all.
The Crows, for example, were great thieves but they used to say they never killed a white person - at least up to the great Crow uprising in 1885 where one white man was killed. Since the Sioux and Cheyenne were muscling in on Crow hunting grounds, the Crows were allies of the US during Red Cloud's War in 1866-68 and the Great Sioux War of 1876-77.
And Shoshone might be a problem in western Montana bordering on Idaho. Some of the western Shoshone were part of the hostile groups in the Snake War of 1864-1868 in Oregon, Nevada, and western Idaho, the bloodiest Indian War in the West, and might have raided into Montana.
But any Shoshone seen in central or eastern Montana would probably be eastern Shoshone who had the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming from 1868. The eastern Shoshone under their great chief Washakie (c. 1800-1900) kept at peace with the US and were allies in the Great Sioux war of 1876-77, where Shoshone warriors may have saved the lives of hundreds of US soldiers.
So I guess Dee is just Indian Phobic if he worries about the Crows and the Shoshones.
In real history the Spanish government claimed all of the US southwest for centuries. Although their only settlements, forts, and missions were a few in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California.
Thus until the US infiltration of the southwest and then conquest from 1846-1848 the linga franca that Indians needed to learn was Spanish instead of English.
Most Apaches, for example, had only their Apache names, but many also had Spanish names. For example:
Geronimo "Jerome".
Victorio "victory".
Mangus Coloradas "Red Sleeves" and his son Mangus "sleeves".
Loco "crazy".
Diablo "devil".
Miguel "Michael".
Cuchillo Negro "black knife".
Nana "grandmother".
etc.
When the Tonto Apaches and Yavapais surrendered to General Crook at Camp Verde, Arizona in 1873, their spokesman Chalipan is quoted as saying that they made peace not because they loved the general, but because he had "demasiado cartoches de cobre" in Spanish - "too many copper cartridges". Thus Chalipan seems to have been reasonably fluent in Spanish.
Colonel Richard Irving Dodge (1827-1895) told a story about a drummer boy captured and questioned by hostile Indians - possibly Mescalero Apaches but probably Comanches - near Fort Davis, Texas in 1854. Since the drummer boy knew some Spanish he was questioned by a captive Mexican boy who interpreted. Presumably the drummer boy learned Spanish because of being stationed in the southwest where many Mexicans lived.
Texas has an area of 268,581 square miles (696,241 square kilometers) so three times the size of Texas would be about 805,743 square miles (2,088,723 square kilometers).
New Mexico has an area of 121,589 square miles (315,194 square kilometers).
Arizona has an area of 113,990 square miles (295,234 square kilometers).
Sonora has an area of 69,249 square miles (179,355 square kilometers).
Chihuahua has an area of 95,540 square miles (247,540 square kilometers).
Coahuila has an area of 58,531 square miles (151,531 square kilometers).
So together Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Sonora, Chihuahua and Coahuila have a total area of 724,480 square miles (1,885,095 square kilometers) which is 2.69 times the size of Texas alone. That is a little closer to 3 times the size of Texas than to 2 times the seize of Texas.
And if that is not enough one could add Oklahoma with 69,897 square miles (181,295 square kilometers) and/or Durango with 47,613 square miles (123,317 square kilometers) to the total area raided by Sierra Charriba. That should bring the total up to three times The size of Texas.
Of course no real Apaches raided over so large an area, and the narrator must have used a really odd and unusual definition of "New Mexico" to say that such a large area was in "New Mexico".
If that happened nobody would want to go on any mission or patrol with Tim Ryan again!
If Dundee had voted to acquit someone who he knew was guilty of attempted murder merely because of friendship that would have been disgusting.
I saw The Glory Guys again and when General McCabe returned from Washington DC he said the was going to be a campaign against the Sioux with six regiments involved. When asked if he would be in command he said no General Osborne would be, but he intended the Third Cavalry to win the victory and get the glory.
So I guess the "commanding General" in the credits was General Osborne.
In Broken Arrow 1950 the hero's wife dies.
In The Last Wagon Comanche Todd's Comanche wife and children were murdered.
In White Feather 1955 there is an interracial happy ending.
In the Indian Fighter 1955 the white hero and his Sioux girl friend apparently live happily ever after.
They don't fit your memory exactly but it could be Trooper Hook with Joel McCrea or The Stalking Moon with Gregory Peck.
I guess the USA is a failure if the Apaches had to be wiped out. Because there are tens of thousands of Apaches alive and not wiped out today.
I suppose because you only read about historic Apaches and only see them in movies with a historic setting (westerns) you assume that Apaches are history and extinct.
There is a high school in Arizona where 1,000 students were awarded the Presidential Award for Academic Excellence in 2002. One student received a Gates Millennium Scholarship in 2010 and four in 2011.
Over half the students are White Mountain Apaches. It is named after William Alchesay (1853-1928) a White Mountain Apache chief who was awarded the Medal of Honor as an Indian Scout fighting hostile Apaches.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchesay_High_School
Even though there used to be many evil, vicious, cruel Apaches, it was never necessary to wipe out the Apaches and they were not wiped out.
Maybe to cure you of your "The only good Apache is a dead Apache" idea you should watch a bunch of relatively pro Apache movies. Here are some with their fictional dates.
War Drums (1957) 1861.
Battle at Apache Pass (1952) 1862.
Broken Arrow (1950) 1870.
Walk the Proud Land (1956) 1874.
Taza, Son of Chochise (1954) 1875.
Apache Rifles (1964) 1879.
Geronimo (1962) 1883.
A Distant Trumpet (1964) 1883.
Indian Uprising (1952) 1885.
Apache (1954) 1886.
After centuries of contact with Spanish and Mexicans in the southwest USA a lot of Apaches knew enough Spanish to use Spanish names in addition to their Apache names. In many places and eras people had to know two or more languages. Americans are rather unusual in mostly speaking only English, so you are imagining that the Apaches were like Americans and only spoke one language.
In 1873, when the Tonto Apaches and the Yavapais surrendered to General Crook at Camp Verde, their spokesman Chalipan was quoted as saying said they did not surrender because they loved the general, but because the general had "demasiado cartouches de cobre", Spanish for too many copper cartridges, showing that Chalipan spoke Spanish as well as Apache and Yavapai.
Most Apaches only had an Apache name but many famous ones also had Spanish names.
Geronimo "Jerome"
Victorio "Victory"
Mangus Coloradas "Red Sleeves"
Mangus "Sleeves"
Miguel "Michael"
Cuchilo Negro "Black Knife"
Loco "Crazy"
Diablo "Devil"
Nana "Grandmother"
etc.
Since my first post I have seen Fort Apache and Rio Grande and looked at stills online - I think that both Kirby York in the epilogue of Fort Apache and Kirby Yorke in Rio Grande have Lt. Colonel's insignia on their shoulder straps.
The date of She Wore a Yellow Ribbon was in 1876 and the date of Rio Grande is in 1879 or 1880. Both films involve the 2nd Cavalry. If York is Yorke and serves in the same regiment in Fort Apache and Rio Grande then the Fort Apache Regiment would also the 2nd Cavalry and all the cavalrymen would know each other, making all the Quincannons and Tyrees a bit confusing.
There may be an official fictional date for Fort Apache recorded somewhere. The many clues to the date tend to be vague and contradictory.
Most important are 2.
Philadelphia Thursday says she will be old enough to marry without her father's permission in 2 years, and thus she should be about 19. Mrs. Collingwood says Philadelphia wouldn't remember her from when the Collingwoods and Thursdays were friends, so Philadelphia should have been about 0 to 5 when they split, which was over a military incident during the Mexican War 1846-1848, The Civil War 1861-1865, or some Indian war between them, thus putting the date of Fort Apache in about 1860-1884. But after 1862 since Robert E. Lee is famous.
Thursday would have to be a lot older than Henry Fonda if he could remember Robert E. Lee as a cadet in 1825-1829.
Sergeant Major O'Rourke served in the 69th NY Volunteers during the Civil War and in "the United States Army" - which may mean the regular army or both the regular army and the US Volunteers - for fifteen years. Thus he could have served in the regular army before the Civil War, in the Volunteers in The Civil War, and again in the regular army after the war. Or he could have served in the regular army for fifteen years after the Civil War. Thus the fictional date should be sometime between 1865 and 1880.
Together those two main clues put the main part of Fort Apache in 1865 to 1880 and the epilogue perhaps up to six years later.
Her names was Lukey.
And I don't know.
A black person riding with Union soldiers?
Aiming for soldiers and missed?
I have seen Rio Grande again recently and could see that Colonel Yorke, Sergeant Major Quincannon, the singer played by Ken Curtis, and others wear caps with crossed sabers and the regimental number 2. Thus the regiment should be the Second United States Cavalry, as in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon where several characters also wear caps with "2".
But in the scene in the abandoned church where 2 boys look over the top of a pew one wears a cap with a "2" and the other one wears a cap with a "7". I have seen a still where Patrick Wayne, John's son, wears a cap with a "7", so I guess he's the boy. therefore one of the kids in a fort where 2nd cavalrymen are stationed should have acquired a 7th cavalry cap somehow.