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MAGolding's Replies
Did Gatewood say "Over one billion dollars a year!" or "Over one million dollars a year!"? And was he talking about the yearly spending, the yearly budget deficit, or the total national debt?
As far as I know one million dollars would be far too small for any of those in the 1880s which one billion dollars would be far too large for any of them in the 1880s.
I should point out to some non Americans on this board that an American means 1,000,000,000 when he says "a billion" and not 1,000,000,000,000. When an American means 1,000,000,000,000 he says "a trillion" and not "a billion".
It is possible that Dudley Nichols, the writer of Stagecoach, put in "Over one billion dollars a year!" to make the amounts make sense for a 1930s audience.
"and then end her life slowly"
Do you mean the way the Apaches would end her life when they caught her if they had enough time for it?
I think that Hatfield's intention was to treat Mrs. Mallory differently from the way he expected the Apaches would, not in a similar way.
There are other types of taxes besides income taxes. There are customs taxes on imports, for example, that increase the prices that everyone pays for imported items. There was the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794 over the federal taxes frontier farmers in Pennsylvania and other places paid when they sold their whiskey - they converted their corn crops into whiskey because it was easier to transport to the east to sell.
Wikipedia says that Stagecoach (1986), Stagecoach (1966), and Stagecoach (1939) all happen in 1880.
If the Republican convention in Chicago is news, the date should be June 1880, June 1884, or June 1888 - in real history at least. An Apache outbreak from the reservation when Geronimo was the most famous and feared Apache leader should be the one in 1885 - in real history at least.
But western movies usually contradict each other and real history. If every western movie was true every famous western character would die and come back to life at least once, or else every famous western character would actually be several different persons with the same name. We can hardly assume that political conventions or Indian uprisings happen at the same time in western movies as in real life.
dknow3 wrote:
"If I recall correctly, the original Ernest Haycox story "Stage to Lordsburg," and the published edition of the screenplay specified 1884. Geronimo finally surrendered in 1886, and was transported to Florida. So, historically the 1884 date would make sense."
I found a website with a picture of a movie poster for Stagecoach 1939 that has the line: "A Strange Frontier Incident of 1885".
[url]http://a-drifting-cowboy.blogspot.com/2012/05/best-chatsworth-movies-stagecoach-1939.html[/url]
So there are many different and contradictory clues to the date of Stagecoach (1939), but it seems to be somewhere from 1880 to 1886.
Added 05-25-2019.
References to Geronimo being the leader of the Apaches, and to the Republican National Convention, are in the script. They are how the story was written and are part of the events. Reference to the "Dead Man's Hand" in the script would be there deliberately. The first known use of the term "dead man's hand" is in 1886, and the cards in the hand varied. The "Dead Man's hand" was eventually explained as referring to Wild Bill Hickok's last poker hand on August 2, 1876. If John Ford and Dudley Nichols believed that origin story then they intended that Stagecoach happen in or after 1876.
The model of rifles used as props, and the type of playing cards used as props, are details decided on by the prop master who would prefer to chose items that look reasonably appropriate for the fictional date and setting while already being stored in the prop warehouse from earlier films, so he doesn't have to pay to have new items made. Most Hollywood prop masters would gladly sacrifice a lot of authentic looks to save money for the production.
If one is going to use props for dating Stagecoach (1939) what about the fork tailed company guidon (flag) carried by the cavalry? The US cavalry has used three different patterns for guidons.
The 1833-1862 pattern was red above and white below, with white letters "U.S." above and the red letter of the company below.
The 1862-1885 pattern guidon was a fork tailed version of the stars and stripes.
The 1885 to present pattern guidon is red above and white below, with a white regimental number above and the company letter in red below.
All three historic patterns, and many imaginary ones, have been used in western movies, and it was rare to use the correct pattern for the fictional date of the movie.
The guidon seen in Stagecoach (1939) is the 1885 to present pattern, and has 6 above and F below, thus indicating Company F of the 6th US cavalry.
In real history the 6th Cavalry was stationed in Arizona from 1875 to June 1884, and was stationed in New Mexico from June 1884 to 1890, and had a number of fights with Apaches from 1875 to 1886.
But assuming that the guidon in Stagecoach (1939) was designed for that movie instead of left over from an earlier one, or that anyone involved knew or cared what units were stationed in Apache territory at any date, is making a leap of faith. Props are an unreliable way to find the fictional dates of movies.
I did find this dialog in IMDB:
Capt. Robert MacClaw: Sir, may I suggest that my troop act as rear guard?
Col. Janeway: Where did you learn cavalry tactics, Captain?
Capt. Robert MacClaw: Well, infantry isn't mobile...
Col. Janeway: Neither is dead cavalry. Ask Custer!
The AFI Catalog of Feature Films says:
"The ailing Janeway, who has been risking his health until he can retire with a pension, is concerned that the Indians’ persistence is fueled by news of Indian victory at Little Big Horn."
This implies the time is 1876 when news of Custer's Last Stand was still news. But the synopses of the plot begins: "In Wyoming Territory in 1878". If the fictional date is 1878 the Little Bighorn would be old news. Unless it had been somehow kept from the tribes for two years. It seems strange enough that Fort Starke in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon doesn't get their report until winter is coming, but this would be far odder!
All the online plot descriptions I found just say that the wagon train and the soldiers are going to Paradise River. They don't say the river of Paradise River, the town of Paradise River, or Fort Paradise River, just Paradise River.
There is this dialog in IMDB:
Col. Janeway: Mr. O'Hirons! Mr. O'Hirons! Regulations stipulate $10 a month additional for command functions. When we reach the Paradise, notify the paymaster that Captain MacClaw has commanded with distinction. The government owes him $3.30.
Since he says "the Paradise" I assume they are going to a geographical feature called Paradise River. Since he mentions a paymaster there and assumes Captain MacClaw's command will end there, there should be a lot of troops with high ranking officers there.
To be precise it is the film's depiction of Apaches. There are no other Indians in Hondo. No Iroquois, no Pawnee, no Yakimas, no Paiutes, no Comanche, no Sioux, no Crows. there aren't even any other Arizona Indians like Navajos, Pimas, Mohaves, Yumans, Maricopias, Hopis, etc.
I have to agree that the tactics used in Hondo seem pointless. But then movie tactics usually don't make much sense. One can just as well ask why movie Apaches are always riding around and getting shot down like crazy while real Apaches were masters of ambushes.
Louis L'amour's novel Hondo was based on the screenplay by James Edward Grant for the movie Hondo (1953), that was based on Louis L'amour's short story "The gift of Cochise", Collier's Magazine, 1952.
The movie Shane (1953) has the screenplay by A.B. Guthrie, additional dialog by Jack Sher, and is based on the novel Shane (1949) by Jack Schaefer, originally published in Argosy magazine in 1946 under the title"Rider From Nowhere".
Perhaps someone who has read "The Gift of Cochise" and the novel Shane might have an opinion about any influence of one story on the other.
How much money does Liv make?
https://moviechat.org/movies/tt2794380/posts/58d41df28942060011e240b8
It is possible that Liv has made up to millions of dollars from four seasons of Sing it Loud. Depending on how much of it is saved and invested, the income from Liv's past earnings could add tens of thousands of dollars to the family income each year and still have some left over to add to Liv's investment fund. It all depends on the details of Liv's finances, which of course would never be discussed in a children's show.
As for various large expenses in various episodes, remember that in an episodic and non serialized series most of the episodes should be thought of as happening in alternate universes of their own separate from the alternate universes of other episodes. Thus most of the sudden large expenses of the Rooney family should happen in their separate alternate universes and thus not add up to financial ruin as they might if all episode happen in the same time line one after another.
Taylorfirst1 said:
The main story was such a tired red herring anyway. I went to school in the 70's and 80's in small town America and I don't remember ever hearing anyone ever say that girls can't do math or science or engineering.
And the young cousin claims she has never seen a movie or tv show with a girl that likes cars or something? I can name dozens of shows and movies off the top of my head made since the 90's where there are female characters that like cars or mechanics or science etc. Where has she been?
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She has been in the Disney Channel Live Action Universe, a fictional alternate universe to ours, which includes bionic kids, superheroes, wizards, etc.. Possibly all the movies and shows depicting girls liking cars, science, math, engineering, etc. have been replaced by different movies and TV shows in this fictional universe. After all it does include fictional movies and TV shows like Space Werewoves, Voltage, Linda and Heather, and Sing it Loud.
Warning: Link to TV Tropes follows.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Franchise/DisneyChannelLiveActionUniverse?from=Main.DCLAU