Did Colonel York in the epilogue of Fort Apache were Colonel's or Lieutenant Colonel's insignia. Is Colonel Kirby Yorke called Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel in Rio Grande, and does he war Colonel's or Lieutenant Colonel's insignia?
They can't be eh same person unless hehas the same rank in both movies or he has a higher rank in teh later movie. Of corse the ficitonal date of Fort Apache is a matter of dispute, while Rio Grande clearly happens in 1879 or 1880.
While Ford's cavalry trilogy (also including She Wore a Yellow Ribbon) were thematically linked and included several of the same actors often with the same names, they were not direct sequels and the characters in one film were not intended to be the same characters in another.
shareI read in a John Ford biography that the Kirby Yorke here WAS supposed to be an older version of the one in FORT APACHE.
shareSince my first post I have seen Fort Apache and Rio Grande and looked at stills online - I think that both Kirby York in the epilogue of Fort Apache and Kirby Yorke in Rio Grande have Lt. Colonel's insignia on their shoulder straps.
The date of She Wore a Yellow Ribbon was in 1876 and the date of Rio Grande is in 1879 or 1880. Both films involve the 2nd Cavalry. If York is Yorke and serves in the same regiment in Fort Apache and Rio Grande then the Fort Apache Regiment would also the 2nd Cavalry and all the cavalrymen would know each other, making all the Quincannons and Tyrees a bit confusing.
There may be an official fictional date for Fort Apache recorded somewhere. The many clues to the date tend to be vague and contradictory.
Most important are 2.
Philadelphia Thursday says she will be old enough to marry without her father's permission in 2 years, and thus she should be about 19. Mrs. Collingwood says Philadelphia wouldn't remember her from when the Collingwoods and Thursdays were friends, so Philadelphia should have been about 0 to 5 when they split, which was over a military incident during the Mexican War 1846-1848, The Civil War 1861-1865, or some Indian war between them, thus putting the date of Fort Apache in about 1860-1884. But after 1862 since Robert E. Lee is famous.
Thursday would have to be a lot older than Henry Fonda if he could remember Robert E. Lee as a cadet in 1825-1829.
Sergeant Major O'Rourke served in the 69th NY Volunteers during the Civil War and in "the United States Army" - which may mean the regular army or both the regular army and the US Volunteers - for fifteen years. Thus he could have served in the regular army before the Civil War, in the Volunteers in The Civil War, and again in the regular army after the war. Or he could have served in the regular army for fifteen years after the Civil War. Thus the fictional date should be sometime between 1865 and 1880.
Together those two main clues put the main part of Fort Apache in 1865 to 1880 and the epilogue perhaps up to six years later.
The epilogue to Fort Apache (1948) happens several years after the main action, since Lt. O'Rourke and Philadelphia Thursday have married and have at least one child, Michael Thursday York O'Rourke, who looks like he is a few years old. And York has been promoted at least one step.
If there are any shots of York in the epilogue clear enough to show his shoulder strap insignia, two leaves on each shoulder strap would make him a major or a lieutenant colonel, while one eagle on each shoulder strap would make him a colonel. York is addressed as "colonel" in the epilogue, so viewers should look for two items or one item in a shoulder strap to tell his rank. Anyway, years must have passed between the main action in Fort Apache and the epilogue.
So if York and Yorke are the same character, Lieutenant Colonel Yorke in Rio Grande (1950) should look older than Captain York in Fort Apache (1948). But then the question would be whether York in the epilogue to Fort Apache (1948) looks older than Yorke in Rio Grande (1950) and what their ranks are. We can hope that the one who looks older will have same rank or higher rank than the one who looks younger.
The ranks and apparent ages of York in the epilogue of Fort Apache and Yorke in Rio Grande should determine which comes first, the epilogue of Fort Apache or Rio Grande. Since Rio Grande should happen in 1879 or 1880, if the epilogue of Fort Apache could happen a few years later that would put it in the 1880s, and the main action of Fort Apache could be in the early or middle 1870s. But if the epilogue of Fort Apache happens before Rio Grande it could happen in the mid 1870s and the main action could happen in the early 1870s or late 1860s.
But if York and Yorke are two different characters comparing their apparent ages gives no clue to the fictional date of Fort Apache.