That's funny you talking about a Bias Justice System when your last comment on a post was about how the 2020 election wasn't cheated because the Justice System said so.
"My roommate said....."
Thats the same opening gambit you used to start your mysoginistic women hating thread, to attempt to make yourself look less of a scumbag.
Its a really "low IQ" idea ironically.
Trump uses the same thing , whenever he wants one of his outrageous boasts or lies or name calling to be true / validated he prefixes it with
"I heard" or "people are saying" or "Everyone says"
You're in the same IQ / mental age as Trump . wow , how low can you go.
There is more informed discussion of the matter concerned, with numerous links to scholarly articles, on that Reddit thread, than there ever is with 'my room mate told me'. And given that the most common source on this board is X, your comments are somewhat ironic.
all the same obnoxious and odious character traits and smugness despite low IQ.
Did anyone tell you that an ad hominem is not an argument? And I am not him. As has been explained before, liberals who stand up for common sense and are anti-racist are more common than the skewed population of this board might suggest. I know, it's your nightmare...
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So if I was to call you a pig-headed racist asshole and moron, that would just be a description? And if you felt insulted, you could change? Cool!
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No, Cathy Newman, because what you said wouldn’t be true. This is the fundamental problem with you Leftoid cultists, you’re pathological liars. You have no respect for reality.
Yes, Cathy Newman is that strawmanning leftist cunt from Channel 4, you deploy the same tactics as her.
Shit ‘your mum’ joke btw.
‘Grass is blue’ is not a description, it’s a lie. You’re still not grasping the concept of truth.
Insulting descriptions are not arguments. Also you may wish to know that something can be insulting, whether true or not.
Firstly, your character is linked to your ‘arguments’. You’re spewing bullshit because you’re an ideologically possessed liar, and we have to get to the roots of your BS.
Second, I don’t care whether something sounds ‘insulting’ to you, I’m only interested in the truth. When you start to embrace reality and be honest you’ll find that truth tellers will describe you in ways you’ll probably find more comfortable.
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It's a false description. Something, duh, can be descriptive and a lie and offensive. An insult can also be aimed at a person in lieu of addressing their argument, as you unfortunately usually demonstrate. Have you thought this through? You seem to be spending a lot of time lately special pleading for your regular insults.
Firstly, your character is linked to your ‘arguments’. You’re spewing bullshit because you’re an ideologically possessed liar, and we have to get to the roots of your BS.
Oh dear. Now you are literally repeating yourself now in different replies lol. Is there an issue your end with fresh creative writing?
I agree that one's character can be shown by the manner by which one argues. Which sadly, when you shirk matters, puts yours in a bad light, and even more so when you insult in lieu of debate.
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You’re a jumped up little turd with delusions of eloquence, and you’re not bright enough to pull off the sophistry you’re attempting. Start paying attention to what is being explained to you instead of vomiting into your own anus on a constant loop and making everyone watch, capiche?
Did I ever tell you that an insult, (or according to your recent special pleading, just a rude personal 'description' lol), is still not an argument? It also makes you look defensive. Isn't it time you got back to the original OP and its inherent scientific racism?
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Evasion noted again again, oh dear. Isn't it time, instead of insulting people, and claiming to read minds, or presenting unsubstantiated conspiracy theories, you got back to the original OP and its inherent scientific racism?
Social science is notoriously ideologically driven, plagued by a replication crisis, and marred by a deliberate suppression of research on race science — dismissed not on scientific grounds but purely for ideological reasons. And yet, we’re expected to take this field seriously?
No need to when you always post provocative opinions which you have admitted are at best only half serious. You are welcome to your opinions, and I always enjoy and like to acknowledge determined trolling which is obviously a parody of some of the more worryingly serious postings here.
But since you ask in regards to the social sciences, there are certainly disputed areas, but any criticism based on ideological bias, true or otherwise, can apply to either side in academic disputes. If we do not intend to take social science seriously though, then the OP's claim about crime (and the confusion between supposed correlation and cause) can be taken lightly. The rest of his claim (IQ and T-levels) is, ultimately more scientific racism based around implied hereditarianism - for which the link I gave can still be recommended as more balanced and informed, than what any room mate says.
Allow me to clarify: if mainstream social science is ideologically driven, with journals dismissing anything that contradicts their biases, then why should I take them more seriously than race scientists? Why should they, rather than race scientists, earn my trust?
if mainstream social science is ideologically driven, with journals dismissing anything that contradicts their biases,
Here you make me smile again by such a sweeping assumption so thank you once more.
why should I take them more seriously than race scientists?
No one is telling you to. In fact it is arguable that the biological sciences usually contain more hard facts on such matters as genetics for which a general consensus exists. However its findings were a large factor in the American Anthropological Association, for instance, changing its views. The justification can be found here: https://americananthro.org/about/policies/statement-on-race/
Thank you for putting yourself in the position of the hard-to-please sceptic, inviting answers which will help many here. The bottom line is that while there are issues contested all the time especially in the soft sciences, one should be careful of throwing out the baby with the bathwater to suit disreputable ideological preferences and ideas from obsolete science elsewhere.
This statement (on race) is precisely what I'm talking about. It's not science; it's ideology. The anti-race science sentiment gained traction post-World War II as a reaction against the racial views that were mainstream before and during the Nazi regime. But it isn't rooted in genuine scientific inquiry — it's ideology masked as science, cherry-picking data to fit an 'anti-racist' agenda. So again, why should anyone take their so-called 'science' seriously?
Why dismiss the work of researchers like J. Philip Rushton when their only rebuttal is ideological, not evidence-based?
The anti-race science sentiment gained traction post-World War II as a reaction against the racial views that were mainstream before and during the Nazi regime. But it isn't rooted in genuine scientific inquiry
Just so others know, CuriousMind often plays provocative Devil's advocate. Genetics has advanced immeasurably in modern times and the consensus now is that 'race' does not exist biologically speaking. It lingers on more in the social sciences, but even there it is fading away (see the abandonment by the American Anthropologists Association of some decades back, linked to earlier). It probably exists more in the political arena, but the feeling is that such notions are more and more only finding traction on the far right for ideological reasons.
Why dismiss the work of researchers like J. Philip Rushton ..
For the benefit of those unfamiliar with this particular race scientist:
Rushton's training is unrelated to biology and genetics. Rushton crossed the political Rubicon in 1989, when he went public, presenting his views on race to an outraged meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Association officials called a press conference the same day to attack what the association’s president called Rushton’s “highly suspect” research. Since 2002, Rushton has been president of the Pioneer Fund, which has for decades funded dubious studies linking race to characteristics like criminality, sexuality and intelligence. Pioneer has long promoted eugenics, or the “science” of creating “better” humans through selective breeding. Set up in 1937 and headed by Nazi sympathizers, the group strove to “improve the character of the American people” through eugenics and procreation by people of white colonial stock. And so on. CuriousMind will approve of this as he want to provoke people who don't think such pseudo science funny.
As a psychology professor, one might well indeed ask why should anyone take their so-called 'science' seriously?
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It’s true that Philip Rushton’s research has been dismissed as “highly suspect,” but the real problem is that his critics haven’t actually bothered to refute his claims or prove his data wrong. Instead, they’ve chosen to launch personal attacks, labeling him and his work as racist while completely sidestepping the actual substance of his research.
CuriousMind often plays provocative Devil's advocate
Have you ever entertained the notion that CuriousMind might actually be the Devil and not just his advocate?
In particular, much of (his) research was supported by the Pioneer Fund, a foundation formed in 1937 to promote eugenicist and racist goals. In addition to ethical concerns about the nature and funding of his research, Rushton’s work is deeply flawed from a scientific standpoint. Crucially, Rushton’s works linking race and intelligence are based on an incorrect assumption that fuels systemic racism, the notion that racialized groups are concordant with patterns of human ancestry and genetic population structure.
I appreciate you are a leading psychologist for the benefit of this troll. Thanks for the recommendation though! Cheerio!
this is worth reading, but i would also direct people to the arguments for the hereditarian position.
because a lot of the statements in that thread about the hereditarian position - junk science, discredited - don't match up to what people who study the issue say. at the least, it dismisses the position of what i understand to be the position of most researchers who think that there is some genetic explanation for the gap & the genetic influence may be significant.
there's a good summary of the hereditarian position here.
"Based upon results from a survey published in the scientific journal Intelligence in 2020, it appears that most intelligence researchers lean toward the view that genes have more influence on the US black-white IQ gap than the environment"
you can find the section on research into the source of race differences here. there are links to multiple studies at the end.
& one thing that always should be said is that even if the source of the difference is 100% environment, that may not make the gap any easier to solve.
after all the years of interventions in education & preferred hiring & head-start programs, the b-w gap remains 1sd.
it's the case that highest income blacks have the same test scores as lowest income whites.
so if it is the case that the hereditarian position is wrong, we still don't seem to have any means of closing the gap. are you going to adopt all black children away from their families & have them raised by asians & jews?
as long as 40% of blacks have a sub-80 iq, that population is going to continue to lag economically & likely behaviorally.
i'd recommend 'in the know - 35 myths about human intelligence.' unfortunately it's a bit pricey, but there's a pdf posted online that will come up if you go looking.
If only you had serious sources other than sites which allow no peer review and for anyone to say anything... once again I recommend the link I gave back at the start which at least offers a host of academic links and allows for a more nuanced idea of a vexed subject.
most researchers who think that there is some genetic explanation for the gap & the genetic influence may be significant.
Conditionals emphasised. The nature v nurture debate is a time honoured one, and one suspects that ultimately the truth lies in a bit of both. The problem is with the scientific racism it can engender.
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if you're setting up a strawman that i think there is a majority of researchers who think the gap is solely due to genetic differences, i'll happily beat up that strawman too. arguing is easy when you say people believe things that they don't actually believe.
i don't believe there are tons of researchers who think the b/w cognitive gap is solely genetic & fixed.
there is plenty of rigorous debate & plenty of evidence for the standard hereditarian position that there is a significant genetic explanation for the some of the gap. admixture studies, adoption studies, genetic stuff i won't pretend to understand.
if you want to pretend that the hereditarian position is a discredited fringe position, i can't stop you, but i don't think that reflects the positions of the experts in the field, which is who we should go to whenever discussing a topic where we are not experts. i know i'm not an expert & i assume you aren't either.
i'm pretending to work right now, but i'll be happy to come back later, maybe tonight or tomrrow. there was some very interesting stuff published recently that supports the 10000 year explosion hypothesis by cochrane & harpending & their position on ashenazi iq. i'll also try to find the admixture studies i was looking at last year.
From your third link, which appears to be same as the second (the first was just an isolated table): "Education was rated by N = 71 experts as the most important cause of international ability differences. Genes were rated as the second most relevant factor but also had the highest variability in ratings. Culture, health, wealth, modernization, and politics were the next most important factors, " In other words hereditarianism is not as important as some scientific racists would make it out to be.
if you're setting up a strawman that i think there is a majority of researchers who think the gap is solely due to genetic differences
No I am not, but you did say that "most researchers who think that there is some genetic explanation for the gap & the genetic influence may be significant." which as noted, is a sentence full of conditionals.
i don't believe there are tons of researchers who think the b/w cognitive gap is solely genetic & fixed.
I am glad to hear it, and didn't suggest you do, but that is the message undoubtedly given, or implied, by scientific racists I have spoken to on this board before.
If you want to pretend that the hereditarian position is a discredited fringe position
The hereditarian position is the belief that genetic differences are a major cause of differences in human behavioral traits, including intelligence and personality. Hereditarians believe that genetics are more important than environmental factors in determining human outcomes. Above you will remember that I said the debate Nature V Nuture is an old and vexed one and that I suspected that reality lays somewhere in the middle. It is when I read things like 'blacks more stupid so more criminous' that issues arise, to say the least.
there was some very interesting stuff published recently that supports the 10000 year explosion hypothesis by cochrane & harpending & their position on ashenazi iq. i'll also try to find the admixture studies i was looking at last year.
The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution is a book by anthropologists Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending that argues that human evolution has accelerated dramatically since the rise of agriculture. Interesting yes, but I am not sure what this has to do with debate here over Black IQ, levels of T. and crime etc
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well, as it should be. i wouldn't approach this issue blustering with certainty.
"but I am not sure what this has to do with debate here over Black IQ, levels of T. and crime etc"
it's directly related to the hereditarian position.
it was the position of stephen jay gould & most of the proper establishment types that populations couldn't differ cognitively because evolution operates too slowly, that 70k years wasn't enough time for mental functioning differences to appear.
david reich's newish paper supports cochran & harpenders position of accelerating evolution. one of the examples they give is the unique circumstances that produced high ashkenazi iqs.
it suggests that there was more than enough time for populations to develop different mental levels.
the belief that all of these human populations would be split & have thousands of years apart & all end up in the same place cognitively has been compared to flipping a dozen coins & having them all land on end simultaneously.
ok i really have to get back to work. i'm truly going to get busted one of these days.
it suggests that there was more than enough time for populations to develop different mental levels. the belief that all of these human populations would be split & have thousands of years apart & all end up in the same place cognitively has been compared to flipping a dozen coins & having them all land on end simultaneously.
I don't necessarily disagree with the suggestion (for instance black test scores have narrowed in the last few decades) but it does assume that all outside influences on different groups are the same in every instance when this is demonstrably not the case. There is also no way of discovering what the IQ was across every early society so what is the base line? There is also the argument that, physically, each ethnic group has only insignificant differences between them, with that truism that genetic differences are greater within ethnic groups than between them - which one would not expect if different populations had different change patterns. Hope you don't get sacked btw lol
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If you're discussing I/O research, you can't overlook I/O (@eyeslasho) as an essential follow. His insights are valuable, and his secondary account, 'i/o research' (@iointelresearch), is also highly recommended for anyone looking to deepen their understanding on race science.
WOW, nice data; I've suspected this forever but never saw any real data to back it up. I would've thought Asians topped the list, so interesting.
MSM continues to blame slavery, racism, and White Privilege for all of the ills in the black community, without one bit of reference to your chart. Your chart cannot continue to be ignored by The Left!
It's so Politically Incorrect to infer that a race, as a whole, is simply less intelligent and therefore subject to a lower economic grouping. (Of course there are always many exceptions... that's why we calculate averages). It's obvious from the demographics in the NFL, NBA and Track & Field that blacks are (generally) more athletic. But Howard Cossell got fired by saying they were "bred that way".
I wish we could call a spade a spade. (But maybe that's a bad analogy LOL)
There are several rebuttal to 'Neurons by Race' in the comments which follow the article, one notes. EG this:
Actually the Asian & White is bigger to accommodate the bigger eyeballs & the resulting bigger visual cortices in Whites & Asians. Brian size can be estimated by looking at the latitude a group of people live at. In other words a North Englishmen’s brain is bigger than a Southern Englishmen’s. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/8662850/Northerners-brains-are-bigger-scientists-find.html ... Also you wrote that Whites have a larger Prefrontal Cortex which is false. Blacks have larger prefrontal orbital cortices..
“In models examining specific brain regions, the only statistically significant difference was that African-Americans exhibited larger left OFC volumes than Caucasians. However, when regional ratios were examined (regional volume/total cerebral volume), the African-American cohort exhibited greater ratios for the right amygdala and bilaterally for the OFC (Table 2).” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964318/
... You sited a study on Kenyans from 1934 & arrived at the conclusion Whites have larger Orbital Frontal Cortices? That’s just bad research & bad science. Rushton’s research is old & he entered it with biased & predetermined mindset " Just like you noted above in fact, when I said these thing work both ways.
Finally I would also hesitate in attributing much racial balance to an article which uses the word 'mongoloid', rather a red flag that. Your other link seems rather old.
Good try though. I shall leave it there, as I know there will be people who will wish to take you seriously and we both like to see the fun of trolling in action.
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No surprise you’re here to masturbate over such a lame and transparent race-baiting contribution.
I would love to see fuckers like you spout all this shit to a black man. You know, to his face and not from behind the safety of your keyboard you limp-dicked waste of oxygen.
Say it to Tyson. Hell, even say it to Will Smith. You’d be slapped down in a second and exposed for the snivelling little bitch you clearly are. I’d even get pay per view to watch that.
There are already plenty of posts where I engage more intellectually, I find no reason to apply that here. I tend to adjust my tone based on the conversation partner; with someone insightful, I respond in kind. However, in this instance, a simple 'lulz' feels appropriate. That's all that you deserve.
If I said Black men have bigger dicks on average due to genetics/genes (race), I doubt I will be called a bigot or racist by the Left. Can everyohne see how ridiculous this is?? Its fucking insanity, plain an simple.
All the micro-plastics is turning eveyone into crazy people.
If I said Black men have bigger dicks on average due to genetics/genes (race),I doubt I will be called a bigot or racist by the Left.
No, it is more that if someone says 'black men have bigger dicks on average due to genetics/genes (race) which is why they rape more' then the issues would arise.
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That wasn't intended as a fact, but as an example. I could for instance find a 'genetic' reason why there have been more white male serial killers than any other group in the US.
Odd in what way? This time I said 'I could for instance..' simply pointing out that, by mistaking correlation for cause, by misrepresenting and being selective, one can attribute almost anything to supposed inheritable group characteristics. In fact this sort of scientific racism is something often seen on this board..
Hence white woman-hating of one form we might argue is a leading reason for killing, when as a context one notes that male violence against women is higher than vice versa. So we might suggest, say, that all white men, especially of low IQ, ought to be supervised when around women, as it looks like the violent tendency is genetically caused and shows its worst examples within whites.
And so on. Note: I am not suggesting your view or mine is necessarily correct, or mine is a serious policy; the point was to show how easily one can use scientific racism to make pseudo arguments against groups one could disapprove of.
Interesting pieces. But even if the white serial killer IQ trails the average white IQ by a few points, it's still 10 points ahead of the average black IQ.
But even if the white serial killer IQ trails the average white IQ by a few points, it's still 10 points ahead of the average black IQ.
IQ is a vexed question to be fair, as I have shown elsewhere; but the point I was making is that race science can be made to justify almost any conclusion.
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"Interesting pieces. But even if the white serial killer IQ trails the average white IQ by a few points, it's still 10 points ahead of the average black IQ."
My point is I wouldnt be chastised by anyone for making that stament... well, becuase its fact and it just so happens having a big dick is a net positive.
Its still doesnt change the fact that its due to genetics. If you want to have a sane society, you have to be honest about the good and the bad sides of things. Even if it means some people have genes that are more inclined to violence or lower/higher IQ or bigger meat-cleavers. **Im not saying LOW IQ, I specifialy meant to say LOWER. There is a difference.
Give in to your anger. With each passing moment, you make yourself more my servant. Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.
You’re the joke that keeps giving.
Funny, that's exactly how I feel about you. It's like watching a dog chase its own tail. Or maybe licking its own balls.
I don't know, that sounds an awful lot like projection. What are you doing on the Dark Web KiwiJim?
What sorts of mischief are you getting yourself into?
Is that a thank you for defending you when that thread trashing you was created?
No worries mate. Anytime 👍
And I believe it’s not SJW anymore, the pejorative term in vogue is woke, but anything you throw should slide off like shit down a wall so it’s all good.
Great. Like I said, call me what you want. I also don’t take it personal but it’s nice to know you’re here just to get under people’s skins. No luck this time but hope you rattle others.
Also that Aussie sounds cool. I like Australia and the people are nice. Friendly. Like you.
I think at this point the subject has been long forgotten, if there ever was one. Wait. It’s my degeneracy, right? Yeah, super degenerate. Phew, glad we cleared that important issue up!
Why don’t you come join us in General Discussion? Everyone’s really friendly and easy to get along with there. I’m sure you’ll fit right in.
Haha okay. You sound a bit like Oprah.. “you’re a degenerate, they’re a degenerate, EVERYONE’S a degenerate!!”
Some might question why you’re so quick to point the finger. I hope you’re not like that republican senator who signed all those anti lgbt bills then got caught sending fire emoji’s and suggestive comments to a gay twink on Insta. That would be super awkward wouldn’t it?
Seriously? You appear to be the one fixated. I’m just taking the piss at your faux-outrage. I think you would do well to talk to a professional. Why do you care so much that I said such a flippant comment in response to someone calling me a pansy? Does it really disturb you that much? There’s something else going on here, but I’m not the man to help you with it. Sorry.