the same story over and over again? Or do you want to see variations on stories and stories told in a different way?
And why is it that almost every time a story does not involve a white male in the lead it has to be a "woke" show?
I saw this more as how the lead character knew she had special skills and wanted to use them and be a warrior.
Well, we don't.
We want to see good stories with whatever lead. Not stories with checkmarks and the only redeeming "quality" is that it has a non-white male lead or is "brave" and "stunning" and "subverting expectations".
You're looking at the situation from a wrong perspective. No, not almost everytime a story doesn't involve a white male lead it is a woke show. But EVERY TIME it is a woke show it doesn't involve a white male lead.
Have you seen Homeland? Quantico? Outlander? I don't think I ever heard anyone calling those shows "woke" because they have female leads.
Queen's Gambit? (Although with this one I've seen people not happy that she is too good at chess still I wouldn't call the show "woke").
And there are some other shows and movies with female leads that no one really call woke.
Everything Everywhere at once.
Atomic blonde (and it is about a small woman beating shitloads of huge men but no one cried "woke!!!")
Hunger Games: how many people do you know that screamed "woke"??
Alien/Aliens/Aliens 3
Terminator
Furiosa (arguably she is the lead, not Max)
Wonder Woman (the first one) - and you can see the difference in quality between the first one and the second, wokefied one
Buffy,
Charmed (the original)
Firefly/Serenity has few amazing female characters (River Tam being OP and super hot and kicking male's asses)
Edge of tomorrow
Mulan (the original)
Underworld
Kill Bill (no one and I mean NO ONE called "The bride" woke ...)
And the list could go on.
As you can see we DON'T have a problem with good stories with female leads.
Funny how your entire list predates the epithet. Almost as if they would all be labeled woke if they were released today
shareTHAT is one point I was going to make - if those shows were released today many would complain about "wokeness."
I'm to the point that what I don't think many Americans realize is that with the expansion of widespread globalism, that those that control the production and distribution of American entertainment realize how much more money is available outside of American borders and just not within and they are and that there is a lot of money available when it comes to more diverse shows.
This is one reason why so many American blockbusters are released outside of the US - because they make so much money in foreign markets (theaters are more popular in some other countries than in the US).
And all this is just happening to coincide with recent American societal shifts.
Do you know when Atomic Blonde was released? 2017
Wonder Woman? 2017
Everything Everywhere at once? 2022.
So your argument fails.
"This is one reason why so many American blockbusters are released outside of the US - because they make so much money in foreign markets "
but they don't. Show me a "woke" movie that made so "much more money" ...
I'm not talking about the release of entertainment of just "woke" identified shows, but ALL shows when it comes to how and when they are released - look at how many of the MCU movies that have been released outside of the US first - it's because producers and distributors have learned that when it comes to movie watching that foreign markets can be more lucrative than American ones when released first.
We were talking about woke movies being released outside and making A LOT MORE money outside US.
And the problem with your "argument" of when were those released?
That the people that call the new woke shit "woke" are exactly the people that LOVE the old movies with female leads. And they love them even now and don't call them "woke".
So your argument fails, again.
What list are you looking at????
Wonder Woman is quite recent (2017). Wonder Woman 84 is newer and wokefied.
MadMax: Fury Road is not old.
Atomic Blonde is quite recent (2017).
Everything Everywhere at once was released THIS FUCKING year.
You're an idiot ;)
And no, they would not be considered woke if they were released this year because ... they are not.
Ripley doesn't want to "prove that I can hunt" or "smash the patriarchy" or "show how the white are evil" - these tropes ARE in Prey but they ARE NOT In Aliens.
The presence of those tropes and the preach on those (and poorly done) is what makes Prey woke and Alien(s) non woke. Not merely having a female lead.
Another example: StarTrek: Discovery vs STN: discovery is a cesspool of wokenes while STN even when they had a transgender actor playing a transgender character with a transgender acceptance speech they managed to make it subtle and not too preachy so it actually didn't feel too woke - it was still kinda woke but in an organic and not annoying way.
Damn you're dumb.
Asom,
Why are you such an asshole in your reply? No one here is being disrespectful, but you are. Grow the fuck up or STFU and move on.
Because you don't care to understand other people point of view and you just want to enforce yours.
Let me tell you, again, why Aliens is NOT woke.
Because Ripley when she got in that exo skeleton didn't shout "I'm female and I'll smash the patriarchy" or "The Force is female" or "I'll show you how a woman does it" or "this is brave and stunning" or "white male evil".
She was just a person, an individual fighting for survival the whole movie and there was NO moment in which she spewed woke moronic lines like we have now.
If your point of "if Alien would be made today it would be considered woke" means "if Alien would be made today it would have a ton of woke crap inserted and would be a wokenistan cesspool with zero qualities" then I concede, that might be the case.
Let's take two movies, in the same francize. Released roughly at the same time:
Star wars VII - considered woke, female lead, Rey is a Marry Sue, diversity hires, etc etc.
Star Wars: Rogue One. Female lead but I never saw ANYONE saying that it's a woke cesspool (maybe there are some that are saying that but generally speaking it is NOT considered woke).
Do you understand???
Here: show me the "this movie is woke because it has a female lead" threads.
https://moviechat.org/tt3748528/Rogue-One
Funny how a bunch of examples are listed to debunk the whole thing that it all comes down to race and sex/gender and that men don't like the main character to be female as to why people hated the movie, and you decide to slap a cutoff date onto what counts/is eligible, or such and such movie can't count/isn't eligible for such and such reasons. I think you people that don't want to accept that people simply don't like the movie are doing whatever you possibly can to keep this messed up narrative you got going on in your head. Give up. Some people think the movie simply sucks and quit trying to turn it into something about race and sex/gender. There is better female characters out there than the girl in Prey and Asom just listed a bunch. I could list even more as well since Asom left out quite a bit. I created my own thread listing all my favorite female characters. Not just in movies either. But some TV shows and video games.
Heck, I could give one now. Those Who Wish Me Dead stars Angelina Jolie. That was one of my top five favorite movies of 2021. Plus I bought it on Blu-Ray ASAP. There was nothing woke about it. Sure, Angelina fought a guy in the end, but it didn't feel forced like a lot of movies nowadays (including Prey). And Angelina wasn't thinking she was better than ALL men. She even showed emotion at times as well instead of being all monotone/stoic like a lot of female characters nowadays. Plus she was believable at being tough, although she didn't have muscles like Arnold or Stallone or The Rock. Those Who Wish Me Dead did stuff right. Prey did everything wrong. And now that I mentioned Those Who Wish Me Dead, I think I'll go re-watch it.
Part 1 of my reply
Interesting thing about your list is, no one considers some of these movies “woke” for a few arbitrary reasons.
1. Exceptionally beautiful actresses. Notice how none of the female leads are even average looking, which is odd considering how many of them are warriors or in law enforcement.
2. Heavily male populated, from main to secondary to background characters, and male centred storylines, from the male co-lead to the villain
3. Women playing male characters, with the exception of women being traditionally feminine, obsessed with finding love and who aren’t strong outside of an accidental superpower or magic, etc.
None of these things are inherently bad, but it’s weird that these are the main reasons that give these movies a woke-pass. I mean, you summed it up yourself: female leads “being OP and super hot and kicking male's asses” – which again isn’t a bad thing. Yet in many complaints about woke movies and shows, people often whine that the female lead shouldn’t be able to kick ass, but only if the lead isn’t “super hot”.
Not to mention that some of these leads are there to prove their worth against men, they do want to "smash the patriarchy", etc. You’re telling me Mulan, Selene, and Furiosa weren’t trying to smash the patriarchy or prove their skills against their male counterparts? Were we watching the same movies? The only difference in a lot of these movies compared to ones considered more woke is the female exceptionalism, the one woman who stands alone and apart other girls by being equal to or stronger than men – not even other women, but men.
This is a male trope, which means these characters were written to be men or as close to men as they can be, yet still sexy to men. Which is a bit weird, if you ask me. Why are women only considered strong and capable if they’re competing on a male-only level of strength and capability? Why do they have to kick ass or tote a gun to be called bad ass?...
Part 2 of my reply
...And why do they have to look cute doing it for it all to be considered valid storytelling?
Still, people have called some of these films woke. Wonder Woman was called woke before it was even released. The only reason people changed their minds is because Gal Gadot is a super hot and traditionally feminine woman surrounded by capable or relatable men in the latter half of the film. And this is not a new story, Wonder Woman is an old story taken from 1940s comics, yet the fact it only got made in 2017, despite there being 12 Superman films, and was still called woke, tells me more about the uselessness of that word than it does about the movie itself.
So your definition of good stories when it comes to female leads is a bit narrow for some people and I can’t really agree with it.
Appreciate the long and rather well thought reply. But.
I wouldn't consider Sigourney Weaver or Linda Hamilton "hot".
More like average for that period.
"You’re telling me Mulan, Selene, and Furiosa weren’t trying to smash the patriarchy or prove their skills against their male counterparts?"
That's what I'm telling you.
Mulan wanted to save her father and later to save her country and her friends, NOT to "smash the patriarchy" - that was added in the live version. Furiosa was interested in survival. River Tam is NOT interested in smashing the patriarchy.
Ripley and Sarah they don't really kick male's asses either, or "smash the patriarchy", they fight for survival.
And you missed my point that in Serenity there are several great feminine characters and focused on River Tam and her being OP. Inara AND Zoe are amazing female characters as well and are not in your box of "OP kicking male's asses".
But nobody had a problem with River being OP and hot while Cpt Marvel is a female lead OP and hot that kicks male's asses but it's called "woke".
Wonder Woman is not considered woke but Wonder Woman 84, although with THE SAME hot female lead that kicks male's asses like in the first one it is considered woke.
If you can't get past the surface and understand that then I don't know what to say, you are just focusing on certain elements but those elements are common to "woke" movies and shows as well.
Charmed, the old one and the new one both have hot female leads both but only the last one was considered "woke".
Star wars VII and onward: hot female lead that kicks ass but woke.
Mulan live: hot female lead that kicks ass but woke.
Etc.
Although you saw some other bits, like "surrounded by capable or relatable men in the latter half of the film." - YES, THAT IS a woke element, having only capable women and only caricatures of males, pushing down the male characters as caricatures or if it's capable then it has to be a villain or evil - or irrelevant to the story like Chris Pine's character in 1984.
You do have to expand your list.
Part 1 of my second reply
You're welcome.
Your personal taste aside, Sigourney Weaver and Linda Hamilton were considered beauties. James Cameron married Hamilton.
Disagree with you about Mulan. She had a chance to go home and not fight in the war, with her father in the clear and her friends not having made the cut. She only stayed to prove she was equal to, if not better than, the men around her, and that she was more than just marriable. That is literally smashing the patriarchy. In the recent film, it’s about her being stronger than those around her, but in the earlier film, it’s about her being smarter than those around her. What makes one woke and the other not?
My issue with Ripley and Sarah Connor is how they're toted as the lone good” female characters, and they are for their time. But there shouldn’t be a prototype for a good female character. Not every male character is Sherlock Holmes or Indiana Jones or Superman. There’s also Batman, there’s John Watson, there’s even Joan Watson (a woman, gasp!). Men get variation, women get told to be Ripley and Sarah Connor because that’s the only type of women can be in movies – and like you said, they don’t even get to kick arse a lot of the time, they’re still there to prop up their male counterparts.
Similarly, the "good" female characters of Firefly are only deemed good for their masculine traits. None of their feminine traits are upheld as good except for their crushes on or devotion to certain men in their lives - they're actually mocked when they attempt traditionally feminine tasks. So how exactly are they good female characters?
Again, Wonder Woman was considered woke before release. Check the boards from that time. People were literally pushing others to boycott it...then they went and saw it and liked it. Yet the movie didn’t change from trailer to release. So what changed? And anyone who doesn't like WW84, fair call, but...
Part 2 of my second reply
...it doesn’t make sense to call one woke and the other not just because you didn’t enjoy it. And to address your list of "woke" shows and movies...what exactly makes them woke?
YES, THAT IS a woke element, having only capable women and only caricatures of males, pushing down the male characters as caricatures or if it's capable then it has to be a villain or evil - or irrelevant to the story like Chris Pine's character in 1984.
" James Cameron married Hamilton."
Average people get married too. Even ugly people get married. Your point is quite .. irrelevant.
Plus: are you so shallow to say that the only reason for marriage is someone's hotness????
"Disagree with you about Mulan. She had a chance to go home and not fight in the war, with her father in the clear and her friends not having made the cut. She only stayed to prove she was equal to, if not better than, the men around her, and that she was more than just marriable."
Nope she stayed to fight for country (but you wouldn't accept that because now it's seen as nationalist) and to help her friends. There's NOTHING in the movie of what you said. Even when she wanted to prove herself she didn't do it "to smash patriarchy" but to prove her self worth, as a human, as a person.
"Men get variation, women get told to be Ripley and Sarah Connor because that’s the only type of women can be in movies – and like you said, they don’t even get to kick arse a lot of the time, they’re still there to prop up their male counterparts."
I don't know what movies you have seen with strong female characters but your vision of female characters is so narrow. I think that the problem is on your end, your failure to see more than what you want to see, ideology.
"Again, Wonder Woman was considered woke before release. Check the boards from that time. People were literally pushing others to boycott it...then they went and saw it and liked it. Yet the movie didn’t change from trailer to release."
The movie didn't change but people had seen the movie and realized that it's not really woke. That's actually an argument AGAINST your diatribe: people don't consider a movie woke just because it has a female lead, and they realized that it's not woke after they've seen it. Makes perfect sense.
"The women are often caricatures, clinging onto the men while causing drama for them"
I'm sorry if you see Ripley this way.
"My point is, whenever a film has a female lead, it never seems to pass as good unless it makes a lot of room for men, men’s problems, men’s perspectives and men’s actions. So why can’t we tell a woman’s story without it being about a man?"
I'm sorry if you see Ripley this way (Or even Pvt Sanchez). Or Atomic Blonde. Or Furiosa. Or ... etc etc. There are a plethora of female characters in the "non-woke" movie industry that don't conform to your small boxes.
You just like to create these narrow situations just to justify your view and your narrative. But ... it's wrong.
Rich affluent men usually marry younger, hot women, how does that make me shallow?
She didn't do it "to smash patriarchy" but to prove her self worth, as a human, as a person.Yep, that's what smashing the patriarchy is for a lot of women: being seem as human and competent regardless of gender. Plus she also didn't want to be a bride, which is part of smashing the patriarchy.
"Yep, that's what smashing the patriarchy is for a lot of women: being seem as human and competent regardless of gender. Plus she also didn't want to be a bride, which is part of smashing the patriarchy."
Yeah, smashing the patriarchy means whatever you want to mean ;)
"No, they considered Wonder Woman woke because it had a female lead. What are not getting about that."
Nope, they (generally speaking and me included) consider WW 84 woke, but not WW. So your argument is false and dishonest, assuming what I call woke and why. NO, I DON'T consider WW woke because it has a strong female lead.
"And actually, my vision of women characters is quite broad, it's the world's conveyance of women that's narrow by boxing them into the "strong" category. Here's an article that sums up my point of view on the topic:"
Quote, but wrong. And I'm not going to read a biased, opinion piece that enforces your own bias.
"I just provide examples that already exist in media, I didn't create any of them. You can disagree with my points and you can perceive them how you like, but nothing I stated is wrong."
What is wrong is that you focus only on the examples that you want to focus and misrepresent all the others (if you even bring that up) to fit your narrow box that you want to push them in. You brushed Ripley pretty fast aside because she didn't fit in your small box.
And that you make a lot of assumption on why people call movies of today woke.
How are you gonna use a term like "smashing the patriarchy" and not know what it means, yet condescend to someone who does? How does that work?
What you consider woke today is not necessarily what's considered woke by the majority, nor is it the same as what the majority thought when Wonder Woman trailers dropped. My argument is correct, I literally pointed out how you could go visit the early days Wonder Woman boards and see how many people bashed it as woke before watching it. Trying to tell me I'm dishonest for telling the truth and backing it up with other people's public opinions is intellectually stunted.
What you mean to say is, you're not going to read anything that weakens your own bias, however clearly and intelligently it is presented. You can just say that. It's why you can't debate any of my points with actual facts, you just keep calling me a liar and biased, despite you being that which you name call.
We can stop here, no need to overwork yourself to try and come up with a reply that isn't "but I don't think this so therefore it isn't true" and "you're dishonest, your arguments are false, your views are narrow and you're just overall wrong because you keep providing information that I'm choosing not to read so it's also wrong by default."
"How are you gonna use a term like "smashing the patriarchy" and not know what it means, yet condescend to someone who does? How does that work?"
I guess you're still stuck few centuries back. I would love to welcome you to 2022 and update your antiquate definition of "patriarchy".
Plus: feminism is about fighting oppression and making the world a fair place, fighting for equality. NOT about "smashing the patriarchy" by painting the female in over-positive light and the male as idiots, villains, etc.
Just as you said: WW is not woke because she is surrounded by normal human beings, male and female. WW84 is woke because all male (with one exception - her love interest) are greedy, stupid, evil or all - NO, NOT JUST BECAUSE it has a female lead.
"nor is it the same as what the majority thought when Wonder Woman trailers dropped." and you decided the majority decided that the trailer was woke (not the movie, and I'm talking about the movie not being woke btw - or considered by the majority woke). Can you present that statistic with "the majority"??? Since you made the claim you can gather the data and prove it (your claim). But you cannot because there is no such data ... looking at the board for WW i can even see threads like "A fantastic example of a non woke non feminist female lead movie" - which supports my position and kida destroys yours.
Even worse, maybe there were people that considered the movie as being "woke" just by looking at the trailer and assuming that in this age having a strong woman lead is accompanied by all the other bullshit but they changed their mind after seeing the movie and that the movie didn't come with all the other bullshit.
It would actually be an argument AGAINST your argument but it's hard for you to grasp it.
Of course you are dishonest when you bring terms that are impossible to quantify like "the majority".
"It's why you can't debate any of my points with actual facts" I presented only facts while you didn't, you only presented your own biases and limitations to fit your narrative. Just opinion pieces. Those are NOT facts. Or made up "majorities".
"you keep providing information" - nope, you keep providing biased opinions, no information whatsoever, just your opinion on "information".
Ok, you can stop here, agree with that.
Here, a good example of why the same character in the same story is not woke in the old version and woke in the new one
https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-dislike-about-Disneys-live-action-Mulan/answer/Kenny-Nguyen-44
Feminism is not woke. Mulan (the original) might be feminist. Mulan - the live action - is woke.
You sad, frightened little creature. I hope the monsters that you invent stop plaguing you one day.
shareI really don't care who plays the lead.
If the movie is well done, who gives a crap who the main actor is?
People need to lighten up and just watch the movie and stop fixating on who plays who.
For Heaven's sake! Open your mind, have some fun and stop bitching!
You seem to misunderstand completely what people are complaining about.
I see no one complaining that a show has a lead that is not a white male. I see no one asking for the same story over and over again.
What I see and hear are complaints about studios forcing an agenda on the public. People are complaining about plot, story, character development, and realism taking a back seat to politics.
Look around this board - it is all over this board. And so often when the role is not that of a white male.
Look through this movie board alone.
yeah, look around this thread.
Probably you're seeing only what you want to see ... and if someone has some valid complains about the movie all you see is ... "female lead".
I gave you a list why the today movies are considered woke and the old ones are not, and you still insist on "female lead".
No, that's NOT the problem. Movies with female leads have been, are an will be produced WITHOUT being woke. That's NOT what we complain about.
But you fall back to that because ... well, it's your only argument tbh.
Do me a favor, will you - put me on ignore.
shareDo me a favor and try to understand what I'm saying as opposed to box everyone in the same category.
Can you?
Or would you rather keep your bias?
I would appreciate if you would respond to my question about StarWars VII and Rogue one, on this thread.
2 movies with female leads, released roughly at the same time, one considered woke the other not. Can you understand why? Can you tell me why one is considered woke and the other not since both have female leads and according to YOU that is the only variable that we are using ... ?
I'm done with engaging with you because of your first reply full of insults and worthless conversation. As I asked, please put me on ignore.
shareWhat insults do you see in the above reply???
You just don't want to answer because you don't have an answer.
Worthless because I don't agree with you??? Yeah, I know, leftists love to be in their small bubble world where their views are not challenged but enforced.
So, do you have an answer to my question?
Do me a favor and try to understand what I'm saying as opposed to box everyone in the same category.
I'd advise you to avoid talking reason to any wokester. It's like trying to convince a Democratic Party shill that Trump wasn't a Russian asset and that the Mueller investigation was a waste of time and money that produced no evidence of collusion whatsoever. An even better analogy would be trying to convince a person devoted to any particular religion that they're not seeing the truth of our mutual existences. In NYC you'll occasionally see some ex-convict-looking black Muslim psychopaths that dress like extras in a 1950s production of Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves who ramble on about how Jesus was black and how Islam is truth. Try arguing with them sometime and you'll see what I mean.
There are complaints all over the board, but you are misreading the reasons behind them. I don't see people complaining that the lead isn't a white male, I see people complaining about woke politics being forced into films. Presumably you're onboard with wokeness, so you aren't bothered by it, so you are looking for reasons why something innocuous to you is bothersome to others.
shareReally, when I watch most entertainment what I'm interested in is a good story, good acting, and items that remain true to themselves (for example, genre flicks like James Bond movies versus realistic dramas - shows that remain true to what you knew they were to be before watching them - if that makes sense - for a better illustration, contras Stallone's Cobra to HBO's The Wire - one you know is a shoot them up flick and the other a serious, realistic drama).
And no, I'm not on board with the extreme "wokeness" but the constant claims of so much automatically being "woke" just because there are plots or characters that don't meet a particular individual's societal view.
I'm just weary of the automatic labeling and identity purity demands of viewers.
Being original and being woke aren’t mutually exclusive.
Nobody complained about Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connor. Nobody complained about Xena or Buffy Summers. Nobody complained about Wonder Woman or Alitta. Nobody complained about anime.
It can be done without being woke. You need to learn what wokeness really is, and why people criticize it.
All the examples you brought up were created before all this 'wokeness' really exploded in modern times and to move beyond racial injustice.
And I think I can guarantee if Terminator 2 came out today, people on this board would bitch about it being "woke."
As I stated before - look around this board - almost every time there is a program or movie like Prey users complain about them being "woke."
I have looked around this board, I’ve seen trolls who’ll say anything just to cause problems, and I’ve seen people with genuine complaints.
Several of those examples are recent, after wokeness came about. All of my examples prove that women and POCs were never the problem. You can have them as main characters without making men and white people look bad.
I can guarantee that if Terminator 2 came out today exactly as it was, without disingenuous woke marketing, it’d still do well.
You know, you probably are correct about the vast number of the "woke" whines being made just to cause trouble and turmoil.
And I don't disagree that today Terminator 2 would do well - it is a great flick. But my point was, if it was released today, these "woke" complainers would be crying about how it was "woke" just because Linda Hamilton was in the lead macho role.
And that is my main point - I'm not saying all entertainment with other than white males in leads is "woke" or there are automatic claims that such entertainment is always "woke" but at the same time, too many claim it and especially when the characters are in roles that may not be seen as perceived defined roles.
For example, say the movie Revenant was made today with a woman in the lead role - people here would suggest how "woke" it was just because it was a woman in the lead role instead of a man. I guess they would just complain to complain.
And I say again, nobody is complaining just because the lead is a woman and/or a POC. I and several others gave you plenty of examples, both old and recent, as proof of that.
It’s woke when writers spitefully mistreat white males, and wank over poorly written females and POCs. It’s woke when writers inappropriately insert their radical biased political views without being fair and mature about it.
And I think I can guarantee if Terminator 2 came out today, people on this board would bitch about it being "woke."
I believe you would be dead wrong because you have no actual grasp of the complaints you're railing against. It's an unprovable assertion in any case.
"As I stated before - look around this board - almost every time there is a program or movie like Prey users complain about them being "woke." - yeah, but NOT because it has a female lead. That is NOT the problem with "movies like Prey".
Terminator 2 is NOT a movie like Prey.
So who was complaining about Furiosa being woke???
Who is complaining about "Everything Everywhere at once" being woke??
If T2 came out today - you are right, it would have been labeled woke - alongside with T1.
Meanwhile, if prey came out in 1980's, it would not have been labeled woke. Dumb - yes, woke? no.
Why? Well - how many films in the 1980's featured a woman destroying evil white men?
How many of these films are coming out now?
Also, how many films which previously featured a male lead replaced the lead with a female - in the 1980's?
How many film franchises have done so in the last 10 years? Or they turned the previously strong male character into a pussy, while making a sidelined female character into a strong lead.
Woke movement isn't an illusion, my young friend. You are looking at a droplet and not seeing the ocean - hence your inability to understand why the 'woke' label is being applied.
Not every movie with female lead is woke. Its way deeper then that.
"Woke" movies are been called when they feature such things, often combined.
- Angry, selfish, rude woman thats being mean to everyone for no reason. And specially to white men. Thinking she is smarter and better then everyone.
- Another type - Mary Sue as Rey in Star Wars. Usually its small petite woman that throws around men twice bigger then her. Never will happen in real life. But woke movie try to convince they do exist
- All white straight men are usually presented as idiots, evil, racist, misogynist. And who never listen to woman who knows better then them and just brush her off. Then being told a lesson by that woman when it turns out she was right all along.
- White men are only good when they are gays or betas who listen to woman. Men are also good when they are "of color".
- Alphabet people are inserted in script for no reason.
- Gender and race are being swapped for no reason if its adaptation. Always its the whites that are being swiped and white men being swiped for woman.
And many other things like that. Now count how much things were in this movie....
Have you ever seen leftists to accept facts??
He will never try to understand that "woke" is a lot more than "female lead" because that would challenge his world views and his bias. Plus he wouldn't be able to say anymore "it's just sexism or racism" ... the usuall ideological without any personal thought involved.
Listen, moron, if you had been polite, I would have replied and added more caveats to my OP - the OP was made in reference mainly to the movie Prey and it's female lead - it really wasn't to include all forms of "woke" in depth as it is being used today.
But you started out as an ass and continue to be one, so, PLEASE, put me on IGNORE.
Listen idiot, let me quote you:
"And why is it that almost every time a story does not involve a white male in the lead it has to be a "woke" show?
Look around this board - it is all over this board. And so often when the role is not that of a white male."
So moron, as you can see YOU are not referencing "mainly" Prey but was a general statement as proven by your own words.
And even in Prey, the main Woke complaints are NOT just that the lead is female. That's your projection on all the valid complains in an attempt to minimize valid criticism and paint it as "sexist".
But, at least you start to concede that "woke" is NOT just "female lead". It's a good start. ANd if you read the replies to your thread you might notice the same, that people have other points that they criticize.
BTW, you can put me on ignore as well, I still want to see and respond to your idiotic posts.
As I typed, if you had been more courteous I would have added comments to clarify more of this to be more expansive. But it still stands - go around this board and look at entertainment and you will see how many people automatically throw up "woke" whines.
So in other words, I would have cleaned up the "white male lead" and "every time" and made them clearer and more in depth.
But you are not one of those people that one is able to have a back and forth discussion with. You launch into juvenile insults and the like instead of asking, "did you mean this" or "can you be clearer."
Why not being more clear from the start?? (I actually know why, it's a manipulative technique, like when media published a first page article with some incomplete information that supports a certain narrative and then few days/weeks later they publish an update/errata/mea culpa on the last page that paints a different story but no one bothers to read, so people remain with the first impression "oh, damn sexism")
Plus when I (and others) brought up non woke movies with female leads you replied:
"Those are old movies, if they would be released today they would be considered woke".
"THAT is one point I was going to make - if those shows were released today many would complain about "wokeness." remember this?
So you doubled down on "female lead" as the only element that we use to define "woke movies" although that would had been a perfect moment to make it more clear and clean it up. But answering like that you proved that you either didn't bother to read my comment or you chose to be dishonest about it ...
And when I posted that I wasn't rude or asshole or anything ...
But yeah, I tend to become an asshole when people start to be dishonest - I consider that to be a form of assholness as well.
Ah, another point I forgot to make:
A lot of shows with white male leads are considered woke as well - like ST: Picard or even ST: SNW ... how do you explain that?
the same story over and over again? Or do you want to see variations on stories and stories told in a different way?
Race, gender, or sexual-identity swapping doesn't qualify as interesting or entertaining "variations" on stories. Hollywood schlockmeisters seem to think that a transform of this sort, combined with rehashing stories told in a superior way by superior filmmakers of the past, qualifies as creativity.
You are a moron. Have you seen movies by Daily Wire? Yeah, conservatives have no clue how to make movies. Every movie is the same. Guns, military, tough white guy/gal. Zero depth whatsoever.
Brain-dead films = conservative films.
Yeah, conservatives have no clue how to make movies.
Neither do "liberals" anymore. Besides that, there were a ton of great movie directed by, written by, and starring conservative Republicans back in the pre-1960s old Hollywood. There are so many it's not even worth listing any for a know-nothing meathead such as yourself.
When it is forced, then it is considered WOKE, and thats no good. And here, it is very clear, the female lead is forced. Much like The Mummy in 2017, where its a female mummy. Thats the problem. If you are doing a movie, set in that time period and place, there is just no way a female warrior would be leading the charge
By the way if you don't mind, wanted to ask a quick question, you vote democrat, right?
Do you have a mental defect? It is a movie, not real life. Do you think movies like Braveheart is historically accurate? Gladiator?
Do you also have an issue with 57 years old James Bond beating guys like Dave Batista in hand to hand combat? Not just that but also best male soldiers half his age over and over again in like 26 films. There is "no way" right?
Do you also have an issue with 67 years old Denzel Washington walking through a room of assassins without getting a scratch? Is that any more realistic than a female Indian warrior?
This is a movie kid. This isn't real life. You know John Wayne wasn't really a Mongol leader right?
Not sure what movie you watched, but she led no charge. She barely even survived and got lucky a number of times. Plus, the Predator didn't deem her a threat, so not a worthy trophy to pursue (which was its mistake in the end, as she outsmarted it).
But also:
https://www.biography.com/news/famous-native-american-women-native-american-heritage-month
https://www.womenhistoryblog.com/category/native-american-women
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Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.
Alien.
Shut up.