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David1616's Replies
<blockquote>That's basically the data you're providing regarding liberal thought processes here. They be more likely to think X, but it's still a minority.</blockquote>
So you actually have data on what percentage of liberals think this way? Let's have it? Which data says majority of liberals don't have anti White biases? Also even if only a minority were anti White, that would make them as whole more anti White. And since they dominate the culture that makes the entire culture more anti White. Also I don't see many "moderate" liberals speak out aginst anti Whiteness from their colleagues which makes them complicit.
<blockquote>Entertainment has been dominated by liberals since at least the end of WW2.</blockquote>
My point percisely.
<blockquote>Exactly what truth does minstrel makeup show about black people?</blockquote>
That they tend to be less intelligent, more impulsive, have more frequent mood swings, more violent, more unrestrained, more sexually promiscuous, lazier...etc. Those "stereotypes" arose for a reason (why weren't Chinese stereotyped that way?) and were never disproven.
<blockquote>Right, and you are insisting that admit they are genetically inferior</blockquote>
I never said that. I said the genetic hypothesis should not be suppressed like it is now and should be seriously considered. And certain policies (immigration, racial favoritism, diversification...etc) shouldn't be implemented unless the theory is disproven. Also White nationalists don't deny Whites are genetically inferior with regards to intelligence relative to East Asians.
<blockquote>But one can have a prejudice that is "unwarranted" and not understand it to be so. That's my point, and was my point all along.</blockquote>
Then he will be economically punished for it.
<blockquote>No reason to believe this. And language doesn't even work like this anyway. You can't just stop a word from being used. It's already in the cultural lexicon</blockquote>
No argument why "no reason to believe this". And like I said, the difficulty in achieving a goal is not an argument about the rational and moral justification of that goal. Besides, Memes can spread quickly. I could see the right wing adopting "unwarranted tribalism" instead of racism if presented the idea. It's only the left who want to give up the word "racism" due to it's power which kinds proves my point.
<blockquote>It is ironic for you to pick on integration issues when racism and discrimination are among the key determinants against it.</blockquote>
If racism is the cause of Black/Muslim communities problems in Europe, how come there aren't such problems with Chinese immigrants?
<blockquote>The courts when sentencing make no such distinction and so neither do I.</blockquote>
So you admit you can make no such distinction, yet you accuse me of "hate"?
<blockquote>as already mention this means that alleged black hatred towards whites, often condemned by you and your ilk can be partially excused.</blockquote>
No, it can't because Whites currently aren't a burden on Blacks.
<blockquote>Thank you.</blockquote>
If they were not a result of decades of mass immigration with no permission of the public, what were they result of?
<blockquote>Evasion noted.</blockquote>
What evasion? If whites don't complain about being barred by Blacks, how do Blacks have a justified in complaining about being barred by Whites?
<blockquote>It is if one claims to be a patriot, supports the police and the rule of law.</blockquote>
The right to storm the capitol is not a general political stance of any of "far right" influencers like David Duke or Jared Taylor
<blockquote>not what the head of British police says.</blockquote>
What was the study and data behind his opinion? In any case even if discrimination against Blacks was real, it wouldn't be justified collective Black grievance, since Blacks as a hole commit more crime. Blacks would have to be more discriminated relative to their crime levels to be victims collectively which is what the leftist narrative is.
</blockquote>Is Replacement Theory alive and well?</blockquote>
Why avoiding my question? Are Whites becoming a minority? Is there any plan to stop immigration once it reaches a certain percentage? How is "replacement theory" unjustified it's happening?
<blockquote>You need to explain why it is a good thing to discriminate against poor minorities and deny them the freedoms other groups take for granted.</blockquote>
Again with evasion. We're not denying them anything. The right to live in another people's country is not a basic right for anyone.
<blockquote>No. I am a Brit. We literally saw in real-time the false narrative of the Southport stabber being labeled a Syrian immigrant on social media. You could construct a timeline up about how it happened and what made people riot.</blockquote>
The incident wasn't the cause of the riots. The incident was just the trigger. Also wasn't the stabber Black? Same thing.
<blockquote>And riots are justified, are they?</blockquote>
The political agenda and dissatisfaction behind them is justified. If your people are becoming a minority in their homeland due to immigration and they aren't even allowed to oppose it while the immigrants tend to behave in let's just say "unbecoming" manner, then it's perfectly justified. Funny you leftists were justifying the same riots when one police officer on a different continent accidentally killed one criminal.
No, i didn't have the warrior gene in mind, but their worldwide pattern of behavior.
<blockquote>but this a poor comparison with racism, hatred and discrimination towards an entire group of humans.</blockquote>
How so? Aren't people allowed to have preferences? When Blacks or Native Americans prefer their own it's perfectly OK.
<blockquote>I am sure if it had been a riot of blacks you would be less forgiving. And such excuses certainly did not affect the scale of justice meted out.</blockquote>
I never said their behavior should not be condemned. The context was weather or not this event presents an example of a double standard when it comes to political beliefs regarding race.
<blockquote>Those who claim to be patriots, respect the law and to support the police and army do not attempt an insurrection. </blockquote>
Again, I asked for dobule standards in their politics regarding race. Is the official position of White identatarians like Jared Taylor or David Duke, "we should have a right to storm the capitol when we lose, but others shouldn't"?. If no, it's not a double standard
<blockquote>er, if it was, then they would not be hypocrites would they? Have you thought this through?</blockquote>
Yes they would if they didn't extend that right to their political opponents. In any case, it's not their position, so it's not a double standard. I am not conceding that you provided a sufficient example, but since you keep bringing up only jan6. do the following thought experiment. Let me ask you, had this even not taken place (No Covid and Trump victory, not a close election...etc) what would be your example of a double standard of WN? I bet you would still believe the ideology is evil, yet you would not be able to name a single example of their alleged double standards.
<blockquote>LOL</blockquote>
So you would deny that the post WW2 moral zeitgeist in the West is the evils of the holocaust and racism? That this does not play a role in the motivation to convince the public that races do not exist? You think it's a coincidence that so many of the people denying race are Jewish?
<blockquote>I would say the same about you and repeating your error does not make it right. At the very least most researchers conclude that external forces can have an influence.</blockquote>
So you STILL won't admit you misunderstood heritability? Environment plays some role, but according to evidence it's probably minor
<blockquote>Unfortunately you often do more that just this. Justifying hate for instance.</blockquote>
I (rightfully) resent celebration of a behavior which tends to have negative consequences. Would resenting celebration smoking or obesity be just "hate"?
<blockquote>When have you mentioned them?</blockquote>
When was there a need to mention them?
<blockquote>In other words move the goalposts.</blockquote>
What? You claimed the IQ gap is closing. If there are more mixed race people classified as "Black" and this elevates Black IQ, then the real Black IQ isn't closing. No moving of goalpost.
<blockquote>is it really right to discriminate against, even hate minorities because of their perceived lower intelligence which it seems as if you are doing.</blockquote>
When was I advocating "hate" due to lower intelligence? If I advocate resentment of Blacks it's because of their behavior such as crime, their entitled attitude and the lack of gratitude to what Whites did for them etc.
Is this a debate about slavery in Brazil and Portugal or in America? In any case, Arabs captured European slaves, yet today nobody blames them. It's only Whites who are told we must feel guilty. My point stands.
<blockquote>Biologically speaking is just isn't; sorry about that.</blockquote>
Yes it is. Just because our entire society denies it because it can't handle the political consequences doesn't mean it's not true. Is human biodiversity randomly distributed in all humanity or does it come in cluster corresponding to geographic areas? Then race exists.
<blockquote>People who deny it know good science.</blockquote>
No they don't. "It's NONSENSE to say race is a social construct" - Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, 2022
<blockquote>No heritability differences mean any difference come from things other than genes eg environment. </blockquote>
ROTFL. No heritability differences means environment is NOT the cause. You still don't understand.
<blockquote>They don't show a hereditary cause. The main point is that IQ itself might likely be affected by environment and other external factors. But even if we accept your claim, it is still not acceptable to discriminate on the basis of supposed intelligence;</blockquote>
Circumstantial evidence all points to genetic cause:
- Subtest heritability
- Admixture studies
- Adoption studies
- Polygenic studies
- IQ controlled for SES
- Brain size studies
- Real world success
<blockquote>why you are concerned with decrying the supposed lower intelligence of blacks while ignoring stupid white people? Your implication that mixed-races are not desirable or 'not celebrated' is an attack on personal freedom.</blockquote>
When was I ignoring stupid Whites? No, outlawing interracial marriage is an attack on personal freedom. Not celebrating is not attack on anything.
<blockquote> It has narrowed since 1970</blockquote>
No, it hasn't. If you control for an increased amount of mixed race people who are classified as "Black" as well as immigrant Blacks who are IQ selected, Black IQ is still 83 according to a study from 2023.
https://www.cremieux.xyz/p/the-state-of-the-gaps-2022-23
<blockquote>And probably the gene dictating 'bad behaviour' in blacks has been identified? LOL</blockquote>
Lots of circumstantial evidence for it. Not a burden on us to prove it 100% given the context of the debate. You could say dog breed differences in behavior are not proven until we identify all the genes. That doesn't mean I don't have a right to prefer one breed over another given how they currently tend to behave.
<blockquote>The FBI estimates that between 2,000 and 2,500 people entered the Capitol Building on January 6,</blockquote>
Group impulses in the heat of the moment. In any case, they believed the elections were stolen. You have still not provided any double standards on behalf of them when it comes to their political positions.
<blockquote>Like on the above occasion lol? And is this is a simplistic and reductionist argument. Who measures 'good behaviour' and what it entails?</blockquote>
Crime rates, single motherhood, time spent doing homework, likelihood of donating blood... etc
<blockquote>Those (for instance) claiming respect for the law, nation and the police do not storm the Capitol to overturn the results of a democratic election.</blockquote>
Is the right to storm the capitol when you lose an election a general political principle of the identatarian right? I asked for political positions, not what some people did in their private lives.
<blockquote>This is impacted by one's own prejudice.</blockquote>
People are allowed to have biases and preferences. In most cases it's not since not employing a competent Black worker is an economic cost to oneself.
<blockquote>Because you compared how they could be treated to Jews in Nazi Germany.</blockquote>
You first made that comparison buddy
<blockquote>Data please</blockquote>
I have data, hit me up later, lots of work searching.
<blockquote>Calling something warranted or unwarranted is bound by subjectivity in itself.</blockquote>
Less so than the word "racist". It's hard to argue wanting to import people who commit less crime and less likely to live off welfare is unwarranted.
<blockquote>It is very much rooted in racial presuppositions and assertions about them.</blockquote>
How do you know it's presuppositions and not actual truth about them? In any case you haven't responded to my argument that "racist" is a subjective term.
<blockquote>I assume you'll have actual data about this.</blockquote>
https://i.postimg.cc/JzDHpkCw/20231109-194451-1.jpg
<blockquote>Still waiting for data on this. </blockquote>
https://www.takimag.com/article/americas-black-male-problem/
Blacks commit more crime even controlling for income
https://archive.ph/CQWo1
(page 7 at the end)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/294733608_Race_Wealth_and_Incarceration_Results_from_the_National_Longitudinal_Survey_of_Youth
<blockquote>And how would the absence of such data somehow mean that their genes must cause their supposed inclination towards crime?</blockquote>
I didn't say prove, I said It wouldn't prove otherwise.
<blockquote>What mainstream black conservatives admit that its due to their GENES. Some complain about contemporary culture. That's not the same thing.</blockquote>
Black conservatives don't talk about genes. They only talk about culture. IM0 both are true, but the culture thing should be admitted by Blacks because it's more obviously true, the genes thing is harder to prove.
<blockquote>The left, as a bloc, if you're being generalised see many forms of inequality as an outrage - not just racial.</blockquote>
That is true, they do and even other forms of inequality are not justified in being outraged about since we know some people are more capable than others. But racial is especially sinful to them as well as gender inequality even though no country in the world has it. They are simply irrational.
What do you mean not majority? On average even moderately liberal have anti White bias. Very liberals even more so. My point has been made.
<blockquote>It's not liberals/progressives/leftists fault that conservatives are crap at music, tv/film, etc.</blockquote>
You also have to take into consideration cancel culture in entertainment. In any case the point that the culture is dominated by liberals who are anti White stands.
Immigration costs Netherlands 17 billion per year
https://unherd.com/thepost/dutch-study-immigration-costs-state-e17-billion-per-year/
A study from 2014 showed that in the period between 1995-2011, migrants cost the UK £114 billion.
• Europeans made a +£4bn contribution
• Non-EEA migrants made -£118bn contribution
https://t.co/IbsCLQUKDB
Netherlands asylum seeker costs almost 500k per refugee
https://t.co/vWHRLm77XJ
A report for Sweden estimated that the net tax cost for migrants and migrants' relatives amounts to an average of $10bn per year.
The net tax cost is on average 2.38% of GDP
https://t.co/ARvLA07f6H
In Finland, the average Iraqi migrant (aged 20-24) costs €844k if they choose to have children, costing €1.27 million more than the average Finnish-born family
Worse still, a single Somali immigrant costs the Finnish state almost €1 million
https://www.suomenperusta.fi/content/uploads/2019/03/Summary_AsylumSeekers_lifecycle_effects.pdf
Non EU immigrants cost more than EU immigrants
https://t.co/BdK1Lq6Tyj
<blockquote>Also, one of the other factors of violent crime is that most of it is committed by men. You could use your arguments here to justify that men as a whole have some genetic defect and/or service can be justifiably denied to them by women in positions of service providers.</blockquote>
If there was a society made up of almost exclusively women and the policy was to import millions of men to the point of them eventually becoming a majority, the women in that society would have perfect justification in talking about male crime.
As for an already existing society of Blacks such US: Racially separated societies can exist without much problems, sex separated ones can't.
Distinguish for me so called "hate" and legit resentment resulting from bad behavior and how does what you desribe "hate" fall into the latter as opposed to the former. Riots in the UK were a resiult not of decades of mass immigration and ignoring the distatisfaction of the working class natives by the elite. They were completely justified.(unlike the George Floyd/BLM ones)
<blockquote>But is there any area of the USA you are barred from living</blockquote>
Neither I not any White person would have much problem with being barred from living in majority Black places of the country.
<blockquote>Capital insurrection</blockquote>
Capital trespassing is not a double standard of one's political beliefs which is what I asked for. What do WN demand for Whites that they don't grant for Blacks?
<blockquote>the hate seems to be coming all from one side.</blockquote>
You need to check far leftist and Black identatarian accounts on Twitter.
A recent report in the UK found no institutional racism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYGfNVtZvzA
An opinion of someone who calls himself a "human rights expert" is not a scientific conclusion that CJS is biased against Blacks. In the US a recent meta analysis found that it isn't.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178923000927
<blockquote>Just did here, and elsewhere.</blockquote>
No you did not. Are Whites becoming a minority? Is there any plan to stop immigration once it reaches a certain percentage? How many examples of affluent and integrated Black/Muslim communities in Europe can you name?
<blockquote>Hate based on a non-scientific concept is not rational. Sorry</blockquote>
So concern about Europe becoming Islamic is just "hate obsessed" and "irrational"?
What misinformation? Hate is nothing but another word for resentment and resentment is justified if the party in question behaves in an immoral way. If someone hears the truth about minorities and the threat they pose and shoots up a mosque, blame the guy who shot up a mosque, not the guy who correctly warned society about the threat of Islamization. Also blame those that keep importing these people without the approval of the public. It's an extreme hypocrisy how leftists see legit concerns as "hate", but then spread true hate against Whites with White guilt and blaming Whites for failure of minorities (which leads to more violence against Whites than talking about IQ by the right against minorities).
<blockquote>Nine African countries are projected to be among the world's fastest growing economies</blockquote>
Cherry picking. Black Africa as a whole has had the least economic growth compared to all other regions in the world.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?locations=ZG-1W
<blockquote>No, pure races do not exist</blockquote>
So you agree races in general exist (absent "pure" races)?
<blockquote>But you are right, hard sciences like biology don't talk about 'races' anymore</blockquote>
They talk about "population" because the term "race" has become un PC. It's the same thing.
<blockquote>But when couched in terms of hatred and intimidation it is a different matter. Not everyone 'does not celebrate' immigration in a nice way, while forced repatriation is something else again.</blockquote>
So called "hatred" ie. resentment is a consequence. The only thing wrong with hate is if it's a result of someone being misinformed or misled. Ethnic groups choosing to not want to live together anymore is normal and part of history. Plenty of countries split along ethnic lines.
<blockquote>And vice verse. </blockquote>
What do you mean vice versa? I never mentioned any ethnic group.
<blockquote>I asked for political double standards of WN in general, not example..</blockquote>
Why are you taking my statements out of context? My full quote was "I asked for political double standards of WN in general, not example of every personal hypocrisy of every WN." Can you do that or can't you?
<blockquote>You are entitled to your hyperbolic opinions. But institutional racism exists. In the UK at least, it has been admitted by the organisations concerned.</blockquote>
These are not hyperbolic beliefs. If you import millions of members of different ethnic groups and teach then that the original ethnic group oppresses them, it teaches hatred. Then the left has the audacity to complain about hate after teaching Blacks to hate Whites.
Name me an example of "institutional racism" against non Whites. I can name you examples of it against Whites.
<blockquote>Because that is how the concerns are often expressed. Indeed, you have used Replacement Theory, which is a conspiracy at least twice now, while you claim of (unspecified) 'Leftists' all sorts of malign plans; and, dare I say it, but some of your fears and hostility seem irrational.</blockquote>
You have not answered any of my question above. And you have not answered how is concern about this not rational.
<blockquote> my point is that this the first time you have ever pointed up a disadvantage for blacks mixing with whites (and even here you talk just of blacks). Or whites mixing with the more intelligent asian group, come to that.</blockquote>
Mixing with Asians is less of a problem because Asians are probably not genetically prone to bad behavior.
<blockquote>You mean like when they claim to be patriots and respect the law and yet storm the capital with a view to insurrection?</blockquote>
Few drunken enthusiasts trespassing because they believed the elections were stolen is not a political principle or position.
Kaepernick/BLM is not a legitimate grievance. BLM wasn't protesting but rioting, burning, looing and robbing, and due to totally illegitimate reasons. There is no rational reason a movement like BLM should exist. The core of the movement is based on lies. What you call "White supremacy" is White equalitarianism. Whites deserve a higher social status because they behave better.
<blockquote>These far-right hate groups are antithetical to patriots; they are hypocrites."</blockquote>
I did not ask for a leftist hit piece article on identatarian right. I asked for an example of a double standards when it comes to their ideology. What do they demand for Whites that they don't concede for Blacks?
<blockquote>Only to certain groups. Notably those interested in racial purity, Replacement Theory etc etc</blockquote>
No, concern about demographic change is legit to everyone and even to minorities living in the West. Even they should oppose it.
<blockquote>Africa has fast-growing economies</blockquote>
No it doesn't. Black Africa has had the worst economic growth over time than all other regions of the world. It only grew by 11% in the last 50 years. South Africa is rich because it was built and ruled by Whites, today under Blacks it is collapsing. Macao is East Asian not brown, Qatar is rich due to natural resources.
<blockquote>I said that biologically speaking 'race' does not exist. The American Association of Physical Anthropologists says there is no evidence that pure races exist in humans</blockquote>
So race does not exist because PURE RACES do not exist. That is like saying colors do not exist because pure colors do not exist. Modern science doesn't define race by skin color anymore, but by genetic clustering. Genetic studies show self identified races correlate with best fit genetic cluster with something like 99% chance.