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jpssteveshanahan (462)
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First time watching it!
Why didn't Frank avenge Omar?
How did this movie not get an X rating!?
Can The Thing assimilate a host if they're already dead?
24 Year difference
I just thought of something!
1995?
First time watching it
The ending was beautiful (obvious spoilers)
I noticed a recurring theme in the movie
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"Vito never experienced a betrayal by his own family, by the very people he loved"
Same as my previous reply. They say that it would have been theoretically plausible for Vito to have had to have deal with a possible miscarriage from his wife. But never an abortion. As Michael himself confided in his mom when she naively stated that he could never lose his family. "Times are changing".
"Vito also never experienced the lost of a wife, only to be replaced by a last minute gal. I truly believe that Michael loved Apollonia but not Kay, he learned to love Kay, but she was not Vito's Mama Corleone, that was Apollonia"
This is a subject that's been debated for decades. "Who did Michael love more" Though I wouldn't consider Kay a "last minute replacement". Remember that she was a part of Michael's life long before he meet Apollonia. And ironically! Apollonia herself would most likely never have had an abortion. And unlike Kay! She would have been likely content with just being the wife of a powerful man who may or may not be involved in large scale criminal activities π
"I am glad that despite everyone, Coppola fought for Pacino, even Pacino doubted himself in the role"
This!βοΈ
I am so sorry about the delayed reply. Wasn't putting you off! Just busy with work and college (among other things).
"I had to google your spanish!"
Yeah! I tend to mix up my English and Spanish. Which is why Spanglish is my native "go to" language π
"As for Pacino having his team replying to Coppola instead of a personal call, that is strange I agree"
Looked that up on Wikipedia years ago. Don't think it's even there anymore. So take it with a grain of salt.
"Pacino seems to be grateful to Coppola for casting him but also frustrated because he had such a bad experience filming it"
Yeah. That wasn't Coppola's fault. It was the executives that gave him and the other actors such a hard time. It's been well documented that Coppola fought tooth and nail for him. "The kid stays in the picture".
"He also mentions that Coppola called him to his place/restaurant (not sure) eating a meal with his family, but had Pacino standing there, instead of inviting him to sit down"
Really!? First time I read about that incident. Where can I find this interview or article?
"I recall reading that Coppola asked Pacino to be his lead in 2 films which Pacino turned down"
I know he turned down "Apocalypse Now" due to reportedly not liking the idea of being overseas for nearly 18 months or so. The other picture! I do not know of.
"I did hear that Pacino did not agree with the weakening of Micahel's character"
I think everyone close to Coppola during the making of GFIII disagreed with the direction he took Michael's character in.
"As for the Genco scene, that's intact in The Godfather Epic or Saga, if you havent seen it yet, i uploaded it somewhere to stream and I can link it to you via a pm"
I appreciate it, but I think I already saw it. The scene where Vito pays his old consigliere a final visit, right?
"Michael had the same sentiments and heart Vito did, but Michael lived in a different time from Vito"
Others have typed the same sentiment.
"I always laugh at the line in that scene when they get stuck when Tony asks if he should start over and come in again"
The line that always makes me laugh is when Elvira blurted that Frank was making himself an easy target if anyone wanted to assassinate him due to frequenting the same nightclub. To which he incredulously asks "who the hell would wanna kill me!?" She then said as she walked away from the group. "You never know!? Maybe the catcher on your little league team". And Frank being the overbearing and witty character that he was, quips back at Elvira. "The catcher!? Son of a bitch hasn't had a base hit all season. I should kill him!" π
Another line that makes me chuckle was when Frank furiously confronted Tony over securing an 18 million dollar deal without his approval. When Tony assured him that they would receive 75 million on their return investment. Frank storms out of his chair and fires back in condescending fashion. "What do you think Sosa's gonna do if I can't come up with the money!?
Send me a bill!?" π
Frank is incidentally my favorite character from Scarface. I could see myself hanging out with him if it wasn't for the fact that he was one of the biggest and dangerous narcotics dealers from 1980's Florida π
"I guess it establishes on how ruthless and determined Tony is to make it big"
Get rich or die trying! π
"While he does have morals (he doesn't lie, he won't hurt women and children)"
The irony is that that ended up being his downfall. But I never understood that line! What did he mean when he said "I always tell the truth. Even when I lie"
"He just made the fatal mistake of getting hooked up with Tony and his crew"
My natural assumption is that the old man was slipping and got careless. Sosa had already alluded to this during his conversation with Tony over his boss's judgement and how it seemed questionable after revealing that Frank was apparently unaware that his second in command (Omar) was an informant.
I incidentally read this last night on his wiki page referente al asesinato de Omar and Frank's subsequent suspicion of thereof:
"Lopez is angered and accuses Montana of stealing the deal"
What did this article mean that Montana was "stealing the deal?" Is it referring to the moment during that heated exchange where Frank accused them of conspiring against him? "Maybe you and Sosa know something I don't!"
Yeah! That's what everyone says about that scene. Angel could have survived if Tony would have stalled the Colombians for a bit (or if Manny arrived sooner).
Don't know if it counts as a plot hole.
This whole thing left me scratching my head. Don't get me wrong! I prefer stories that are open ended but this movie was an incoherent mess. (I wonder if the missing 45 minutes have something to do with it) and Pacino seemed out of place and disinterested. Which is ironic! Considering that he himself requested the part after reading the script. The director added that Pacino would often arrive late and didn't offer any ideas for his character. I think Friedkin was right when he said that Richard Gere would have been a better choice. Not to mention that the latter was closer in age to the on screen protagonist.
In all honesty this was the worse Al Pacino movie I've seen. Not because he starred in a "gay movie". Although some would argue that this was basically made with the purpose of "shocking" the heterosexual audience. From Wikipedia per Brian Juergens of AfterEllen: "arguing that gay male sexuality does not seem to serve any purpose in the plot other than being a prop to shock heterosexual audiences". There may be some truth to this! As the first 20 minutes consisted mainly of the camera zooming in on naked backsides of men (among other things).
But it wasn't all bad! Saw some familiar faces whom I would never even realized they worked on this. Paul Sorvino (Goodfellas), Mike Starr (Last Dragon), James Remar (TFTC/TFTDS), Joe Spinell (The Godfather, Rocky), even Al Bundy!...Sorry! Ed O'Neill.
And it just hit me! Both Starr and Sorvino appeared in Goodfellas. But never at the same time on screen.
Just like here!
Had to divide my post in three but anyway! This was my initial impression of the movie.
PS: I understand that this is a family oriented forum. So let's keep the comments PG π
10) Who exactly was responsible for that final murder of the red haired kid? I doubt it was Pacino, seeing as they developed an amicable relationship throughout the movie. Most likely his jealous boyfriend was to blame. Remember that he threatened Pacino with a kitchen knife during their confrontation just before this murder occurred. Not to mention the authorities specifically said there was no sign of a struggle. Which obviously implies that it must have been someone he knew well enough to let his guard down.
11) And for the million dollar question! What the hell was the ending supposed to mean!? With Pacino looking into the mirror after he finished shaving (yet somehow has a five o clock shadow) and then unto the camera!? I took it to mean that he was "washing away" his old persona but was the implication that he was the killer all along? Was he suffering from post traumatic stress disorder? Did this undercover assignment help rediscover his sexuality? Remember when the captain tells him to take the rest of the week off and there's a scene immediately afterwards of someone with the same features as Pacino/the other killers walking back into the same S&M bar? I naturally assumed it was Pacino's character. With the implication that that "world unto itself" remains with him.
And what was the deal with the girlfriend trying out his S&M attire? At face value it would just seem like she was just messing around (for the hell of it). But being the inquisitive person that I am! I believe there's a deeper meaning to it. Was she somehow involved in the murders, a la "Jill the Ripper?" Was she destined to become the next victim due to Al Pacino (or whoever the real killer was) deciding to switch genders?
"It was as you surmised, Sosa was too large and powerful for Frank to take on. Later we saw the level of connections Sosa had, even people within the US government. Frank would have no chance taking on Sosa"
ThisβοΈ
"Also the 'made man' thing is an Italian mafia concept but we're dealing with the cartel in this movie"
Shit, you're right! I completely spazzed out on that detail. Every criminal organization has their own code of conduct. Cosa nostra or otherwise!
"He never imagined Tony would return from said deal and also be very 'business savvy' about delivering the drugs and money to Lopez"
"Fuck you! I'm taking the stuff to your boss. Not you" π
"And if he doesn't well then hey, they got the stuff"
Which could explain why Omar sounded surprised when he learned that Tony survived AND got the "yeyo".
The rest of your post sounded very similar to what I posted a few months ago. Allow me to reference:
"This is how I see it. Remember during their heated argument, Omar was about to draw his gun and apparently kill Tony, right there and there? His partner keeps him from doing so and says under his breath in a low/sinister tone 'the Colombians!' At that moment Omar cae en tiempo and replies, 'ah si!' Like he just remembered something. I think that was his partner's way of saying. 'You don't have to kill him. The Colombians will do it for us!'
That's when he gives that aforementioned job to Tony and his crew.
So I don't think he deliberately sent Tony to his death. But he did know it was going to be a suicide mission!
Frank was probably also aware of the risks involved in this deal. He probably told Omar something along the lines of 'I'm not gonna risk my guys with this operation. Find me someone stupid enough to do the job'
And low and behold! That sucker was Tony".
Allow me to reference something I posted 6 months ago that answers that very question.
At least from my point of view:
"That pretty much sums it up! I can't remember if they mentioned how much that 'buy money' was worth, but it was likely a trivial amount. As you said. By Frank's standards anyway!"
"Not to mention that these Colombians were 'small time'. Frank could easily track them down, if he found out they ripped him off. Or maybe he would just say 'what the hell! It's only a couple thousand. They're not worth the trouble'. Frank was such an easy going mob boss that it wouldn't surprise me if he overlooked this slight"
"Pacino staring into the camera again is just to show a bit of character ark. In the beginning of the film he seems like a very young, naive man who takes things very light heartedly"
"The assignment later begins to take a toll on him. You can see this throughout the film as Pacino's character gets grumpier and has more of a temper. His naiveness and lightheartedness begins to go away and by the end of the film he is almost a completely different person. It's as if he has matured out. By the end, he is left exhausted and knows how messed up and ugly the world can be. He learns something dark and grim from the assignment he has taken and it is something that will never leave him. That is the reason why he stares so grimly in the camera. His character is not as innocent and naive as before. He has seen society's dark underbelly and cannot walk away from it"
I know I'm 15 years late but this is the best post I read regarding Pacino's character arc in the movie.
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