MovieChat Forums > Scarface (1983) Discussion > Why didn't Frank avenge Omar?

Why didn't Frank avenge Omar?

posted 6 months ago by jpssteveshanahan (462)
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"Obvious spoilers"

It goes without saying that Frank didn't take the death of his right hand lightly! As evident in the scene that immediately succeeded it. "You expect me to believe Omar was a stoolie. Because Sosa said so!?"

My natural assumption is that Frank realized Sosa was too powerful and starting a war would bring about an unnecessary amount of collateral damage. Even said as much to Tony! Not to mention that Frank is the type of gangster who would rather not make enemies (unlike Tony).

And correct me if I'm wrong! But according to "mob rules". You're not supposed to kill a made guy from another crew, unless you ask permission and the other bosses have to agree that the reason was valid. This is what happened in Goodfellas. Billy Batt's crew approached Paulie to inform him that Joe Pesci killed their guy, and under the circumstances had no choice but to "okay" the hit. I'm aware that Joe Pesci wasn't a made guy, but the principle's essentially the same.

Maybe Sosa thought he could get away with killing Omar, without permission from Frank. Because he couldn't do anything about it anyway! Though it obviously spelled the end of their professional relationship.

I can only imagine what Frank's men asked after they found out what happened. "I take it the deal's off!?" 😄

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[–] Dionysus481 (144) 6 months ago

Tony was slowly molding Frank's business into his own vision. That plus considering Omar likely had Tony set up at Hector's, he just let it slide, and actually may have thought it was actually a favor. They never got along, not once. Just bad vibes between them. That said, it was Omar who was partly responsible for Tony finding this opportunity, but I guess all that other stuff overrode that.

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 6 months ago

Not to mention that Tony was gradually taking away all of Frank's assets, including his wife. You make some good points. But I don't think Omar deliberately set up Tony to get killed by the Colombians. I believe it was more likely a suicide mission, with little chance of success. Which isn't exactly the same.

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[–] Callahan7 (1155) 6 months ago

IIRC Tony said something to Sosa about suspecting Omar set him up and got his friend killed. He said that right after Sosa had Omar killed.

So, maybe. Maybe not.

Omar took an immediate dislike to Tony at their first meeting and may have tipped the Colombians. They would lose some coke but it would remove Tony (whom Omar viewed as a dangerous and troublesome person).

It could be that the Colombians just went rogue and decided to steal the coke and kill Tony and Angel. It was that or Omar set him up.

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 6 months ago

"Tony said something to Sosa about suspecting Omar set him up and got his friend killed. He said that right after Sosa had Omar killed"

"I never liked that piece of shit! I never trusted him" 😁

"They would lose some coke but it would remove Tony (whom Omar viewed as a dangerous and troublesome person)"

Remember what he said to Frank in private as to wether or not they should recruit him!?

"I think he's a fucking peasant" 😁

"It could be that the Columbians just went rogue and decided to steal the coke and kill Tony and Angel"

I think everyone naturally assumed that was the case but a YouTuber posited an interesting theory. He/she claimed that the reason the Colombians went chainsaw happy was because they felt Tony and his crew were planning on cogerlos de pendejo because they were stalling with the buy money. This YouTuber added that if Tony simply cooperated, they would have been spared. I think they were going to kill them anyway! But it's another way of looking at it.

Another interesting theory I read was that Sosa used the whole "Omar was a chivato" angle as an excuse to off him and thus allow him to do business directly with Tony. Seeing as the latter was obviously more inclined to buy 150 kilos a month from him. Which is why Omar had to go. Again! I'm not entirely sold on this theory, either. And if I Omar was indeed an informant, like Sosa claimed. Why didn't he sell out his Boss? He obviously had plenty of dirt on Frank to put him away for life.

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 6 months ago

And not to sound like an Google auto correct feature. But why do you substitute the second O in "Colombians" with a U if you don't mind my asking?

Yes, I know! "Tomato/Tomatoe" semantics 😁

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[–] millsey72 (10243) 6 months ago

I always spelled Columbians with a U instead of an O

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 6 months ago

I'm just messing with you! 😁

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[–] millsey72 (10243) 6 months ago

Actually I was messing with you

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 6 months ago

Ahhh! You got me 😄

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[–] Callahan7 (1155) 6 months ago

I typed quickly. I edited the typo.

"Another interesting theory I read was that Sosa used the whole "Omar was a chivato" angle as an excuse to off him and thus allow him to do business directly with Tony."

Omar was, reportedly, identified positively by one of Sosa's men. Omar's testimony put Sosa's associates away. Life sentences.

It is possible perhaps. Highly unlikely imo. The brutality of his execution, set up for Tony to witness, was probably because he was an informant.

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 6 months ago

"The brutality of his execution, set up for Tony to witness, was probably because he was an informant"

110% Not to mention he even lend him his binoculars so that he could clearly see what was going on. It was basically a warning to Tony not to fuck with him 😁

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[–] Dionysus481 (144) 5 months ago

Yes, you're right. That's what I meant to say. If anything happen to Tony and his gang, it was no skin off Omar's back. Then again, they would have been out their (Frank's) money. I don't know why he would risk this, if the reward of this deal was worth the risk considering it was in good probability almost a suicide mission (which turned out to be).

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 5 months ago

Allow me to reference something I posted 6 months ago that answers that very question.

At least from my point of view:

"That pretty much sums it up! I can't remember if they mentioned how much that 'buy money' was worth, but it was likely a trivial amount. As you said. By Frank's standards anyway!"

"Not to mention that these Colombians were 'small time'. Frank could easily track them down, if he found out they ripped him off. Or maybe he would just say 'what the hell! It's only a couple thousand. They're not worth the trouble'. Frank was such an easy going mob boss that it wouldn't surprise me if he overlooked this slight"

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[–] Dionysus481 (144) 5 months ago

That makes sense. Another thing about that scene that I wonder about is why did Tony allow Angel to die? Would it have been too hard to get the money and give it to Hector? At the very least, it could have bought them more time, rather than having Angel die and Tony seconds away from the same happening.

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 5 months ago

Yeah! That's what everyone says about that scene. Angel could have survived if Tony would have stalled the Colombians for a bit (or if Manny arrived sooner).

Don't know if it counts as a plot hole.

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[–] Dionysus481 (144) 5 months ago

I guess it establishes on how ruthless and determined Tony is to make it big. While he does have morals (he doesn't lie, he won't hurt women and children), he ultimately has many flaws which is why I feel much more sympathetic to Frank, who seems to keep things in check and "flies low". He just made the fatal mistake of getting hooked up with Tony and his crew.
I always laugh at the line in that scene when they get stuck when Tony asks if he should start over and come in again haha

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 5 months ago

"I guess it establishes on how ruthless and determined Tony is to make it big"

Get rich or die trying! 😁

"While he does have morals (he doesn't lie, he won't hurt women and children)"

The irony is that that ended up being his downfall. But I never understood that line! What did he mean when he said "I always tell the truth. Even when I lie"

"He just made the fatal mistake of getting hooked up with Tony and his crew"

My natural assumption is that the old man was slipping and got careless. Sosa had already alluded to this during his conversation with Tony over his boss's judgement and how it seemed questionable after revealing that Frank was apparently unaware that his second in command (Omar) was an informant.

I incidentally read this last night on his wiki page referente al asesinato de Omar and Frank's subsequent suspicion of thereof:

"Lopez is angered and accuses Montana of stealing the deal"

What did this article mean that Montana was "stealing the deal?" Is it referring to the moment during that heated exchange where Frank accused them of conspiring against him? "Maybe you and Sosa know something I don't!"

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[–] Dionysus481 (144) 5 months ago

Yea that line about telling the truth, maybe he is true to his word in that he does what he says, but the way he goes about things can be deviant and flat out illegal, which he considers a "lie".
Good point about Frank, and notice how when Frank asks "who would want to kill me? I've got nothing but friends!", it immediate flashes to Tony and Manny; a sort of foreshadowing.
Yes, I do like Frank too, and he's my favorite too. The first time I watched the film, when Tony said he wouldn't kill Frank, I was relieved just as Frank was lol, but then he immediate tells Manny to, and ugh.
And I relate to when Frank talks about a "chazer", being Yiddish for pig. It's Hebrew for pig, and he also wears a gold chain necklace with 2 Hebrew letters, which is "chai", Hebrew for "life". (I'm Jewish, so I feel a kindred spirit there haha).
My grandparents lived in Miami and then Ft. Lauderdale area and I would always go down every year, so every time I watch the movie, I feel that vibe.

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 5 months ago

"I always laugh at the line in that scene when they get stuck when Tony asks if he should start over and come in again"

The line that always makes me laugh is when Elvira blurted that Frank was making himself an easy target if anyone wanted to assassinate him due to frequenting the same nightclub. To which he incredulously asks "who the hell would wanna kill me!?" She then said as she walked away from the group. "You never know!? Maybe the catcher on your little league team". And Frank being the overbearing and witty character that he was, quips back at Elvira. "The catcher!? Son of a bitch hasn't had a base hit all season. I should kill him!" 😄

Another line that makes me chuckle was when Frank furiously confronted Tony over securing an 18 million dollar deal without his approval. When Tony assured him that they would receive 75 million on their return investment. Frank storms out of his chair and fires back in condescending fashion. "What do you think Sosa's gonna do if I can't come up with the money!?

Send me a bill!?" 😄

Frank is incidentally my favorite character from Scarface. I could see myself hanging out with him if it wasn't for the fact that he was one of the biggest and dangerous narcotics dealers from 1980's Florida 😄

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[–] OuterSpace (128) 5 months ago

It was as you surmised, Sosa was too large and powerful for Frank to take on. Later we saw the level of connections Sosa had, even people within the US government. Frank would have no chance taking on Sosa.

Also the "made man" thing is an Italian mafia concept but we're dealing with the cartel in this movie.

But I don't think Omar deliberately set up Tony to get killed by the Colombians. I believe it was more likely a suicide mission, with little chance of success. Which isn't exactly the same.

One would arguet he did. Notice when Tony starts shouting at him, Omar goes for his gun with the intention of outright shooting Tony then and there. He's stopped by his associate who whispers something to Omar, which suddenly gives him the idea to send Tony to handle the deal with the Colombians. It's clear the idea is to send Tony to a bad deal, where he will meet his end. And if he doesn't well then hey, they got the stuff.

It was theoretically win-win for Omar, though he never imagined Tony would return from said deal and also be very "business savvy" about delivering the drugs and money to Lopez.

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[–] jpssteveshanahan (462) 5 months ago

"It was as you surmised, Sosa was too large and powerful for Frank to take on. Later we saw the level of connections Sosa had, even people within the US government. Frank would have no chance taking on Sosa"

This☝️

"Also the 'made man' thing is an Italian mafia concept but we're dealing with the cartel in this movie"

Shit, you're right! I completely spazzed out on that detail. Every criminal organization has their own code of conduct. Cosa nostra or otherwise!

"He never imagined Tony would return from said deal and also be very 'business savvy' about delivering the drugs and money to Lopez"

"Fuck you! I'm taking the stuff to your boss. Not you" 😁

"And if he doesn't well then hey, they got the stuff"

Which could explain why Omar sounded surprised when he learned that Tony survived AND got the "yeyo".

The rest of your post sounded very similar to what I posted a few months ago. Allow me to reference:

"This is how I see it. Remember during their heated argument, Omar was about to draw his gun and apparently kill Tony, right there and there? His partner keeps him from doing so and says under his breath in a low/sinister tone 'the Colombians!' At that moment Omar cae en tiempo and replies, 'ah si!' Like he just remembered something. I think that was his partner's way of saying. 'You don't have to kill him. The Colombians will do it for us!'

That's when he gives that aforementioned job to Tony and his crew.

So I don't think he deliberately sent Tony to his death. But he did know it was going to be a suicide mission!

Frank was probably also aware of the risks involved in this deal. He probably told Omar something along the lines of 'I'm not gonna risk my guys with this operation. Find me someone stupid enough to do the job'

And low and behold! That sucker was Tony".

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