MovieChat Forums > LanceDance > Replies
LanceDance's Replies
We’re getting off topic. People criticize white-washing too, and I gave you several examples of it. You might not care about race for certain characters, but others do, and they call it out regardless if it’s White-to-POC or POC-to-White.
Some changes are expected when changing mediums, but other changes are for the most part unacceptable.
You can disagree, but there were many people that criticized it. I remember the IMDb board for that all too well. Go to the MovieChat DKR board right now, you can still see a fair amount of criticism for it, more than Black Panther.
You've got the Nolanites that will 10-star rate any movie Nolan makes, and you've got a lot of casual fans that don't care about comicbook accuracy, that'll help with the high score. But whenever the subject of DKR came up online, it was almost always negative.
People complain about white-washing too. The Last Airbender had a lot of problems, but the three main leads' whiteness was definitely one of the key complaints. People also complained about the white female Ancient One in Doctor Strange. A lot of people complained not only about Bane, but the Dark Knight Rises in general.
I didn't care for Selina's design in Batman Year One, and it's not like she was the highlight of the comic anyway. It's fine if you don't care about a character's race, but others do, it's part of the character's design, same as their gender. Things like age can be adjusted; their costumes can be updated; height, hair color, and eye color can potentially be overlooked depending on the character, but leave their race and gender alone. Keep black characters black, white characters white, Asian characters Asian, etc. If white-washing is bad, then so is black-washing.
There are rare cases where a character can be race-washed and get away with it. Billy Dee Williams played Harvey Dent in Tim Burton's Batman, and while Williams was a likable and charming actor, his role was very small. Another better example would be when Michael Clark Duncan played Kingpin in the 2003 Daredevil movie. I grew up with a fat white Kingpin, but I liked MCD in the role, nobody else at the time could've played him. He was tall, had a low booming voice, and was a beloved actor. Kingpin is a big guy, so there's less options to choose from, unlike Catwoman, where there's plenty of hot white actresses who could play her. MCD was cast because he was the best fit at the time as well as having star power (back when that was a thing), not because of his race. Another example would be Idris Elba as Heimdall in the MCU Thor movies. Elba is popular and I don't believe he's said anything woke, so people were more willing to give him a pass for playing a character from white mythology.
Today, Hollywood goes out of its way to black-wash characters, while leaving non-whites alone. That double standard pisses fans off.
Selina Kyle is White. Non-white actresses have played Catwoman before, but they weren't playing Selina. Nowadays, Selina is black in the "Harley Quinn" cartoon show as well as "The Batman". People say white skin doesn't matter for certain characters, but when it comes to Black characters like Blade, Cyborg, Spawn, or Falcon, their skin doesn't matter either, yet people would flip if they were White-washed. There's a double standard these days for who can be color-washed and who can't, which understandably gets fans angry. If they want more black characters, then make new black characters. Zoe Kravitz also said she didn't want Catwoman to be fetishized, even though her sexiness is literally part of her character.
Back to Black Panther, I just visited the boards for the first movie for the last 3 years, I even had it open in another tab as I typed this post, and there's very little if any genuine complaints about the cast being mostly black or that it was woke. There are people that didn't like the movie, but not because it had a Black cast. A few said it was racist while admitting they never saw it, and I won't defend those posts, but they are few. I'll say again, I remember the hype and support for Black Panther. He was one of the breakout characters in Civil War along with Spider-Man, and people couldn't wait to see him in his own movie. In fact his movie made more money than Spider-Man: Homecoming. It got good reviews from fans and critics and there was no scandal to change the ratings like there was with Captain Marvel. If you look at the user scores in IMDB, Metacritic, and RottenTomatoes, you'll see that Black Panther, a mostly black movie, got higher scores than Captain Marvel, a mostly White movie. There's gonna be trolls from both sides of the spectrum, and there’s gonna be journalists that’ll try to stir up controversy. We didn't take them seriously back then, I don't see why we should start now.
Trolls are gonna be around for every big movie whether it’s good or not.
I remember a lot of hype for Black Panther, more than there ever was for Captain Marvel. I remember some journalists tried to claim that right wingers, white people in particular, were hating on Black Panther despite showing no evidence, and despite that Black Panther was surprisingly conservative-leaning in the way Wakanda handled foreign relations.
Nobody had to adjust the score for Black Panther and nobody claimed there were empty seats in many theaters for Black Panther. People criticized Captain Marvel and Brie Larson for their racism and sexism, but not Black Panther or Chadwick Boseman.
When did I say I didn’t want to see black or brown people?
What I said was I want to see black or brown people represent themselves, and that Black Panther had a lot of praise and support.
Nice try, but I was there, kiddo. You’re not fooling me or anyone else.
Nothing I said was racist and you know it.
Crawl back into your cave and don’t come out until we say you can come out.
Those are some piss-poor unoriginal strawman arguments.
Nobody complained about Black Panther. Whites asked for that movie just as much as Blacks did, and Whites largely contributed to that movie making $1 billion. Nobody asked for a Shang Chi movie, it underperformed, and people forgot about it after a week. Not even the Chinese bothered to support it.
Nobody feels like they own a genre; let the Blacks, Hindus, and Asians make their own stories based on their own cultures, audiences are asking for those people to represent themselves instead of forcing Whites to cater to everyone. Look at Squid Game, it's basically the Korean version of Battle Royale and Hunger Games, and everyone loved it. It was the most popular thing on Netflix. I didn't see anyone come up and say they owned the genre. Instead, it received universal praise.
Black Myth Wukong, a Chinese-developed videogame based on "Journey to the West", is one of the most anticipated games in recent years. People are excited to finally play a cool-looking game staring the Monkey King, one of the most popular and enduring mythological figures in the world.
Let those countries represent themselves, stop demanding Whites to cater to everyone. There's proof that they can represent themselves and succeed in making popular products.
I stand corrected 😄
“People don’t usually do that for their love interests.”
Except I’ve seen many people do that, and Kate seems like the type that that would it too.
That said, I just assumed Yelena was making small talk.
1% is one in one hundred.
0.01% is one in ten thousand.
No, he's not. Just because Andrew surprisingly shined in this movie, that doesn't mean he was the best Spider-Man all along or that his movies were actually good.
Tobey's Peter was adorkable but his Spider-Man wasn't quippy enough. Andrew's Peter came off as a drug addict in the first TASM and an indecisive stalker in TASM 2, but I liked his Spider-Man, he was quippy and and funny.
Tom Holland is the best of both worlds, an adorkable Peter and a funny Spider-Man. The character was treated as Iron Boy Jr for too long, but Tom's acting as Spider-Man is the best I've seen so far, and is the closest to the comics personality-wise.
At least Zendaya didn't mention slaves for no reason like in Homecoming, and Ned never went on a tangent about Pacific Islander representation or fat positivity. Previous MCU movie had color-washed characters too, but most of them didn't have the characters blurt out woke dialogue or mistreat certain people just because of how they looked, nor were most MCU movies marketed as woke or had woke subtext.
When activists stop demanding for everything to be "inclusive", which they define as "the less straight white people, the better", people will stop pointing out when something is woke.
Not as of this post I think, but in addition to making at least $390 million, it reportedly also had many viewers on HBO Max, for what that’s worth.
I should’ve also mentioned Godzilla vs Kong and Fast & Furious 9 as other major 2021 blockbusters that weren’t too woke.
Dune wasn't that woke either. A few of the characters were miscast for woke reasons, and they switched "jihad" to "crusade" because Hollywood loves to flip-flop Christians with Muslims for some reason, but I don't recall anybody going out of their way to slip in a line that references modern real-life politics, like that female robot in Solo: A Star Wars Story.
Dune may not have been nearly as profitable as Spider-Man, but it was still a major blockbuster.
lol at the people that still can't tell the difference between woke and diverse.
lol Wokeness is on life support and will soon be taken off of it. Seeing it squirm and resist as it loses life has been amusing, but it can't delay the inevitable any longer.
Well unless you deleted your previous posts, your history doesn’t show you butting heads with anyone for not liking this movie. In fact I’ve seen a fair amount of people on this board that weren’t impressed with it.
You sure you’re not just making strawmen or fishing for something?
It's not just the Green Goblin either, Electro never knew who Peter Parker was, never even heard of him. He thought Spider-Man was black (wink wink Miles Morales wink). So why was he dragged into the MCU universe?