MovieChat Forums > LanceDance > Replies
LanceDance's Replies
No goal posts have been moved, since the days of the OT, Star Wars has heavily relied on toys, books, costumes, etc, to even stay alive. It's not the "real measuring stick", but you do need to look at the bigger picture and not be so naive. Though, since we're on the subject, movie profits are fine and all, and maybe the user scores weren't tampered, but if nobody is buying toys, books, costumes, etc, of the product, was it really successful long-term? Will it stand the test of time?
By the way, is there a reason you insist on standing up for the Star Wars Sequels? What do you get out of it? What do you care how others see them and whether they favor the Prequels over them? It's fine if you wanna discuss how you personally feel about them, this is a discussion board after all, but what's with the crusade to defend the Sequels?
Who was the Mary Sue in the OT?
lol "Dementials", good one đ
Names making fun of Liberals have always been more creative than the cringe ones Liberals use for Conservatives.
I haven't seen any Lucas purists pretend the Prequels were amazing or anything. Nobody forgot how unlikable Jar Jar was, or the mediocre acting, or the campy dialogue, or the other questionable choices Lucas made.
What I have seen is people saying that the Prequels had more effort, integrity, and respect put into them than the Sequels did. I've seen people say that Lucas didn't antagonize the fans whenever they criticized his work, if anything he took their criticism and tried to improve the Prequels, most notably when he reduced Jar Jar's screen time, among other things. I've seen people point out that movie-rating sites have rigged the scores in favor of the Sequels. I've seen people say that the Prequels inspired a lot more successful content and merchandise, where as anything based on the sequels failed, including theme-park rides. I've seen people even point out that the musical score for the Prequels was far more memorable and impactful than the Sequels. I've seen people point out that the Prequels weren't nearly as divisive as the Sequels were.
Basically, I've seen people say that for all the flaws, the Prequels at least tried to tell an original engaging story, where as the Sequels were soulless rehashes that were more focused on pushing agendas. It might be too early to say, but it's a safe bet that the Prequels will age better thanks mostly to all the content they spawned, in addition to the effort that was put into them.
I wouldnât say âdiddly squatâ, in Revenge of the Sith, once Palpatine outed himself, several characters said he was the Sith Lord they were looking for, implying there was an investigation of some kind after Dooku spilled the beans.
But I didnât say anything about Captain Marvel being as popular as either of them. Canât concede to an argument I didnât make, and I wonât concede about what I *did* say about MJ and Catwomanâs popularity.
We're just going in circles at this point, kiddo. I keep refuting all your points again and again, it's so easy to do. Repeating yourself won't change that. Although I never said Captain Marvel was as popular as MJ or Catwoman.
Donât worry, Iâll be here.
I never said my camp was full of saints, I *did* say theyâre not the racists youâre pretending they are.
Not all Fast and Furious films or James Bond films made a billion dollars even before the pandemic. My point still stands that they were big successes despite pandemic times.
You can also look up the empty theaters Captain Marvel had despite tickets supposedly selling out. Iâll also add that home media sales underperformed, and the sequel is taking focus away from Captain Marvel, something even Brie Larson complained about.
You said I backpeddled about MJ and Catwoman when I didnât. So you lied and were wrong!
More and more points refuted. Every single time. What else you got? Iâll still be here, kiddo, Iâm not the type to run away. Will you still be here if youâre wrong?
Nope, they don't have a problem. I already said I visited the Black Panther boards, you're exaggerating how many people didn't like the movie, and lying about why most of them didn't like it. I never said Blade didn't help catapult superheroes, but since each of the three Blade movies made less than $200 million, it's correct to say they weren't as popular as Batman, X-Men, and Spider-Man. It's ok if you loved them, I did too.
Fast and Furious 9, No Time to Die, and Spider-Man all came out during the pandemic, and they were massive hits. Demon Slayer, a Japanese cartoon, came out when the pandemic peaked in 2020, and it managed to make $500 million, becoming the highest grossing anime film of all time. So you can't use the pandemic as an excuse, try again.
Black Panther wasnât that woke, aside from a few things, while Captain Marvel had that a lot of empty seats in many theaters, despite tickets supposedly selling out. Another point refuted. Try again.
I didn't backpedal at all, I didn't change anything I said about MJ and Catwoman and how popular they are. I'll say it a third time since you forgot already: they're both super popular, being a fighter has nothing to do with it.
More and more of your posts are relying on straight-up lying, kiddo. You really are desperate, aren't you? I'll still be here when The Batman comes out, I'll be man enough to admit when I'm wrong. But until then, I'm standing by what I said. And like I said, even if The Batman is a success, it won't be because of black Catwoman.
Wrong, no one in my camp has a problem with POCs being successful. Not. One Person. My camp has actually promoted the success and independence of POCs, and it was my camp that propped up Black superhero films like Black Panther, Blade, and Hancock while your camp pretended that Black Panther was the first time a superhero movie starred a Black superhero.
I might not have authority over the dictionary, but that doesn't change how woke-ists speak and behave. They're not about alertness, they're about making straight White people look bad. All races and both genders suffer from injustices, yet they only focus on, and exaggerate, what White people and men have done to others. Their actions have shown what wokeness really means.
You're only proving my point again by using strawman arguments. Hancock wasn't a Marvel movie, and it was successful. Black Widow, Shang Chi, and Eternals are Marvel movies, and they weren't successful. lol Spider-Man: No Way Home definitely isn't woke, not by your definition or mine. It succeeded because it had three Spider-Men, along with five of the previous villains. Any color-washed characters present were just carried over from the previous movies for continuity's sake, and NWH didn't have any woke messaging about racism and feminism and stuff. Besides, MJ and Ned were removed from Peter's life. Try again.
I'm not talking about Lois Lane, I'm talking about Mary Jane Watson. Both MJ and Catwoman have mass appeal, it doesn't matter if they can fight or not. Men generally like both types of women, and men especially LOVE red-heads.
You're getting desperate now, kiddo. The more we talk, the weaker your arguments get. I've effortlessly refuted everything you've thrown at me and now you're just repeating yourself because you're running out of arguments. Just take the L before you embarrass yourself further.
Yes you do use their talking points. Claiming that people say "if it ain't white, it ain't right" is one of their strawman talking points. You said that, don't deny it.
Modern dictionaries also incorrectly state fascism is a right-wing doctrine when it's not, as history has proven. Many left-wingers like Stalin, Mao, and Hitler were fascists. I stand by what I said about wokeness.
I already acknowledged Black Panther was a success, and an example of original POC characters. I also mentioned Japan and the success of their characters. Thanks for proving my point that original POC characters work despite your camp wanting to color-wash White characters.
Zendaya played a black-washed MJ, Kravitz is playing a black Catwoman. MJ has as much mass appeal as Catwoman does, both are major love interests of the superhero main character, regardless of how much action one has over the other. Nobody trusts early buzz anymore, so nope, bad example, try again.
It was 1998, kiddo. Blade did ok for its time, but financially speaking it wasn't nearly big as other superhero movies before and after, and Jamal/Whistler certainly aren't as popular as other comicbook characters, so you won't find as much internet documentation of outrage. But people complained, hardcore Blade fans complained. I linked you articles, and we're in a time where your camp complains more than ever about white-washing, and you're still in denial about it. You're not the only one that's tried to invalidate other people's criticisms by using strawman arguments. If we're gonna claim we're in camps, then don't pretend you're not in one too when you clearly use their talking points.
And it seems it is you who doesn't know what woke means. It has nothing to do with being alert of injustice, it has everything to do with forcing a certain group of people to conform to others' demands, all while belittling themselves. That's what wokeness is, that's what it's always been. There's being aware of injustice, then there's wokeness which tries to make innocent people feel bad for who they are, for things they didn't do. The original West Side Story wasn't woke, and neither was Schindler's List.
Most superheroes are White because they were made by White people in a White-dominant country. When they bothered to make POC superheroes, it still not enough for you. Your camp wants to color-wash White characters to tip the scales, instead of making more original POC characters or promoting POC culture without being woke about it. Look at Japan, they make their own characters, their own superheroes, and they're doing just fine and have found worldwide success. Western writers should take note.
We'll see how well The Batman does, but any success won't be because of Catwoman. The MCU Spider-Man movies did well because of Tom Holland, not Zendaya as black MJ.
Nope, your camp has double standards, mine doesn't. Your camp supports color-washing of white characters due to an anti-white prejudice, while my camp condemns color-washing of any characters.
West Side Story was not only marketed as a woke remake, but they didn't bother putting in subtitles to get back at English-speakers, even though they aren't the only ones that can't understand Spanish. What's hilarious is that it still wasn't considered woke enough. I repeat, it brought the hate on itself.
I remember people asking who the hell is Whistler when Blade first came out, and what happened to Jamal, this was before movie-rating sites and message boards became prominent. But here are a couple of links to articles acknowledging Whistler was the product of white-washing:
1. https://brill.com/view/book/9781848883833/BP000004.xml?language=en
2. https://www.comicbookmovie.com/blade/the-harder-they-fall-star-delroy-lindo-joins-mahershala-ali-in-marvel-studios-blade-movie-a189711
Nope, my camp has been pretty consistent with its complaints, which is more than I can say for your camp. People *did* complain about Whistler in Blade. The new West Side Story brought that hate upon itself. Thereâs political and then thereâs woke.
If a white actor played a POC role and did a bad job, theyâd get even more flak than if a POC actor was bad at the same role.
And you still don't get it. Incest was never an issue here.
Then stop mentioning incest, because it has nothing to do with this. Your opinion, your standards, your reasons, are based on faulty logic.
You and I might not date older people, but others do, and as long as they're both consenting adults, and not blood-siblings or step-siblings, it's fine.
Case closed.
The fact is this was never about White's being threatened and more about fans in general, White and non-white, who care about faithfulness. Some changes are inevitable when making adaptations, but most people draw the line at race, gender, and sexuality, with very few exceptions, and even then, those exceptions were on a case-by-case basis.
Michael Keaton was eventually accepted as Bruce Wayne, meanwhile Ben Affleck to this day has had mixed reception. And don't even get me started on Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. As you can see, whites cast as whites have been criticized, which undercuts the argument that people will blindly accept any white actor for any white character as long as they're white.
There are people that <i>supposedly</i> don't care as long as race isn't essential, which is fine, but others do care whether it's essential or not, and don't support any color-washing for any character if they can help it.
It's one thing if you just thought it was weird, like it irks you in some superficial way. I already said I wouldn't date people that are much older than me, but that's my preference, and I don't mind if others have different preferences.
But your reasons, or standards, are based on incest and if someone was under-age, neither of which apply to Leo and his girlfriend.
But they're not step-siblings, and the husband waited until she was 19, so nothing wrong happened there. Again, you keep coming up with scenarios that have nothing do with this Leo and his girlfriend.
These are two adults, that aren't related by blood or by law, that both decided to date each other. That's it. You can think it's weird, but it's really not. Ashton Kutcher was married to Demi Moore, and she's way older than him. Same thing, two adults, not weird.