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Keelai's Replies
Kennedy's objective isn't to tell a story. It's to make money for Disney. She mistakenly believes the original characters needed to be destroyed in order for young people to accept the new characters. Have you listened to anything she said? All the fans are middle-aged white men. Females didn't like Luke because they can't relate to a male. He needs to be replaced by a female. They don't want the older fans, just new younger ones.
She's a fool. Johnson and Abrams are both her sycophants. Kasdan was over-rated as a writer. Most of the Empire Strikes Back was written by Lucas before he hired Kasdan.
The fans stupidly chased the true genius, Lucas away.
I don't know why you're paying attention to the nonsense that Johnson wrote when he's completely clueless about SW lore. He knows nothing about the balance of the Force, how Jedi are trained, the history of the Jedi and what a gray jedi is.
Lucas knew Han's death would be an unneeded distraction and a cliche. He was right not to do it.
All 3 prequels are about how Anakin became Vader. Lucas wanted to show an innocent good person (Ep. 1) becoming a hero (Ep 2) and then finally falling to the dark side (Ep 3). It was to humanize him.
Yeah I agree the sequels are rush jobs. I've been saying all along they're rushing them out with out caring about quality. But I reiterate that Disney wanted the sequels to take place in the OT time line because they know fans like the OT best. It's safe. That's why Leia & co are the rebels again. The Evil Empire is back. X-wings and Y-wings and death star all the same nonsense. Stormtroopers look the same. Lucas said things should look different to reflect a new era.
If you don't take risk, then there is no creativity. Disney is afraid to take risk because of the 4 billion dollar payout which is why we're getting rehashes.
Lucas was a risk taker and the EU covers variety. Old Republic, Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Sith Wars, Clone Wars, New Republic Era, first Sith appearing,etc.
Lucas "...I have moved that treasure trove (his treatments for 7, 8 & 9 and SW EU) to Kathy and have complete confidence that she will take them and make great movies..."
Disney/Kennedy dumped both Lucas' treatment and the EU.
Kennedy to Lucas, "The main thing is to protect these characters. Make sure they continue to live in the way that you created them. And the universe of Star Wars continues to grow."
Kennedy killed off Han and Luke. Not before removing their heroism arc. Leia will likely be dead in episode 9.
The above is the destruction that I'm referring to.
SW ST and standalones have no growth because they repeatedly take characters, dialogue and scenes from the OT. No character development or change within the SW universe.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5TGJquhP1s&t=149s[/url]
Luke wasn't a gray jedi. A gray uses both light and dark. He was afraid of the darkside.
"...'rebel wins, empire wins, and rebel wins..."
Totally disagree. It was always Lucas intention to show how a democracy becomes a dictatorship and is even in the 1977 SW novelization.
The prequels main story is how Anakin became Vader. Subplot is how a democracy becomes a dictatorship. Perhaps the fans wanted a popcorn movie. I enjoyed the story, but then I read the book was looking forward to it.
Disney was afraid to move the story forward so they chose to return the story to the OT era. That's cowardice. Decades pass yet all vehicles look the same!
At least in Lucas EU time moves forward which is why I consider it canon.
You just reminded me that they had no clue about the sequel trilogy either. There was never an outline for it. Three different writers/directors doing their own thing. Someone described Last Jedi as a reboot of a reboot.
It wasn't just the fan boycott that doomed Solo. The general audience stayed away too. Disney stupidly thinks fans will return for Episode 9.
I think anything goes with the standalones. Rogue One was supposed to be like a WW2 war movie and Solo is like a western from what I read.
Update:
The cinematographer is known for shooting dark for atmosphere and the projectionist must make certain adjustments according to this article. Like I said even the videos on the internet look too dark to me.
[url]https://www.slashfilm.com/solo-projection-problems/[/url]
Dont' believe it! JarJar will just steal some more from the original trilogy.
I came to this site to suggest the new title Episode 8. You beat me to it. I wouldn't mind the title "The First Jedi" as a slap to Johnson and starring Hamill done right this time. Of course, they would have to grovel to get him back.
Hamill said he is unemployed. Disney is hoping you'll be happy with Yoda since he doesn't complain about character assassination.
Yet an other reason why I didn't see it in the theater. I noticed the dark picture in different movie clips. That's how it was filmed. Maybe Howard thinks it adds atmosphere.
They're lucky if they make $350 million worldwide. Now deduct 40% because that's the movie theaters' cut. $210 million for Disney. I hope they're not counting on merchandise and blu-ray sales for this loser.
$250+ for filming
$50+ for refilming
$150+ for promotion
LOL.
Me too! I'm reading a wonderful book called Heir to the Empire to find out what happened to Han, Luke and Leia after Return of the Jedi. What a difference! I borrowed it from the library so that Disney wouldn't get any more of my money.
Two points I want to make:
1) There is a difference between a person's enjoyment of a movie and a movie being good.
Movie enjoyment is subjective. There is no right or wrong. It's like the saying about music: One person's music is another person's noise. You enjoyed The Last Jedi which is fine. I hated it which is fine too.
A movie being good is more objective because there are standards concerning writing, directing, acting, etc.
It's possible to enjoy a bad movie and hate a good one. This depends on personal criteria for movie enjoyment.
2) Different goals existed for The Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi.
Lucas' goal was adding to the SW lore by telling Vader's backstory, showing us the Republic and Jedi at their height.
Lucas was experimenting with new CGI SFX and characters and digital filmmaking. Jarjar was an experiment that unintentionally went wrong.
Johnson's goal was destroying Luke as a hero in order to have him replaced by Rey. He also destroyed continuity either accidentally or purposely by contradicting 40 years of storytelling including how the Force works and how Jedi are trained.
There are numerous errors in continuity, story & character development which make it seem as if nobody cared.
Both are bad movies. But, it's the destructive goal of Last Jedi that is causing such a violent fan backlash. You don't take what fans loved for 40 years and try to destroy it and appear lackadaisical re: the script and characters.
I enjoyed both Force Awakens and Rogue One too and own both DVDs. There was something traumatizing about The Last Jedi that turned many fans off to Disney Star Wars including me. It didn't respect the Star Wars lore or its fans. Now, I literally can't look at the covers of my DVDs and hate the characters.
I'm not sure if you know that the original trilogy shown on TV is an edited version with many changes by Lucas. A fan restored the theatrical version of the trilogy and can be found as a download. It's called the Harmy's Star Wars: Despecialized Edition.
Solo shouldn't have been made. But, they are really, really, really stupid. Really!
Kennedy makes stupid decisions so anything is possible. Rian Johnson is still working on his SW trilogy that nobody will bother to see.
I agree with you about the fans, but I also believe Lucas and Disney goals are different.
Lucas wanted to complete the last trilogy by finishing the story of the Skywalker family saga. An elderly Luke reviving the Jedi Order and training a 20 something Skywalker. Strong on story and characters and new visually since decades have passed and ships, cars, clothes, weapons should look different. He said in order to do it right, it would take three years to make one film. Goal: artistic
Disney just wants to make as much money as possible. Pump out 2-3 movies each year like Marvel. Use an OT character to do a standalone for possible trilogy. Turn the sequel trilogy into an open-ended series of movies. Create a new pay service Disney channel featuring a SW TV show. Merchandise and license anything. Increase the fanbase by trying to appeal to females, nonwhites, China and younger people for increased revenue. Quality isn't important - pump it all out like on a conveyor belt. Goal: pure greed.
"If The Empire Strikes Back had been released today, it would probably be considered a terrible movie."
SW wasn't just a movie, though. It completely revolutionized movies in 1977 with an innovative sound system, SFX and quality script and acting. Younger fans take him for granted because they grew up with great SFX thanks to him. I grew up with movies before his influence which is why I'll always be grateful to him.
"The problem is we are living in a post-Sarkeesian world where any step away from male-centric..."
Except The Force Awakens with a female lead was wildly successful! Even Rogue One was very successful. The backlash started not because of a female lead, but that idiot Johnson spitting on Star Wars.
This is where logic comes in:
Lucas is a Liberal. Kennedy is a Liberal.
Lucas makes good films w/SJW agenda. Kennedy makes bad films w/SJW agenda.
Fans watch Lucas films. Fans boycott Kennedy films.
Fans boycott Kennedy films because they are bad.
SJW comments have to be read in context after you listen to the videos. "SJW-related issues" are still related to the films quality. They believe quality is linked to Kennedy's SJW agenda. Most people are not saying they hate well-written women like Leia. They're saying they hate badly-written women like Rey. (I liked Rey until Johnson turned her into a full-fledged Mary Sue.) That's why I prefer they don't use the term SJW because then you get Abrams calling them women-haters and doubling down.
I think we're basically saying the same thing in a different way. I don't mind agreeing to disagree if we're not.
The sad thing is that The Last Jedi has conditioned people to lower their expectations when watching a SW film. Now, mediocrity creates relief and is accepted as good. Nothing new. Just a fan film.
It sounds like a generic heist film with a Star Wars imprint on it. SW was always much more. Epic. Mythological. A sweeping family saga.
In years to come, companies will use it as a cautionary tale on how not to destroy a successful brand by denigrating and ignoring your fans concerns.
Box office. DOA. 2nd weekend possible -68% drop with $25-30 million.
I don't appreciate my comment deliberately being taken out of context. The full comment:
"Most of the people writing articles about the Solo flop are idiots who don't understand Star Wars or the fans. I wouldn't take them too seriously."
I am specifically addressing the OP's concern reflected in the title about "Are stories about white men box office poison." I already addressed that in a previous post showing that most of the box office successes have been movies starring white men. I don't like columnists who try to create a false issue to get clicks.
When you have the time, I suggest you actually listen to the youtubers who make it clear their main concern is the quality. Even when they mention SJW, they decry the writing and character development. They're also very entertaining.
You appear to be unaware that Lucas is a Liberal with a "SJW agenda" too which was all throughout SW.
"Lucas explained politely as I listened contritely. Anakin Skywalker is a promising young man who is turned to the dark side by an older politician and becomes Darth Vader. “George Bush is Darth Vader,” he said. “Cheney is the emperor.”
Lucas was on his way to Europe and didn’t have time to elaborate in person. But he sent me this message confirming our conversation: “You know, Darth Vader is really a kid from the desert planet near Crawford, and the true evil of the universe is the emperor who pulls all the strings.”"
https://douglasernst.blog/2010/08/14/george-lucas-exposed-as-the-real-palpatine-maureen-dowd-silent/
"Most famously, Lucas got some heat for giving Anakin a line of dialogue that was almost verbatim from a Bush speech. Anakin says to Obi Wan before his ultimate betrayal, “If you’re not with me then you’re my enemy.” Bush’s line was, ““You’re either with us or you’re with the enemy.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/star-wars-is-more-political-than-you-think_us_590b663d
Most SW fans didn't pick up the "SJW politics" because he was more subtle than KK.
It's not being argumentative if I'm trying to clarify what you misinterpreted in my post.
"I'm stating she is trying to make Star Wars more enjoyable for other women like herself who are not true Star Wars fans. "
Are you saying that women are not true Star Wars fans?
I disagree with the adjective that you used: enjoyable. A more accurate adjective is to say she's trying to "appeal" to female moviegoers by introducing strong female characters. It's about money. Females make up 50% of the population. That's a lot of money! Disney only cares about their profit.
"You say they should be ignored."
I don't want any boycotter ignored. Are you insane? I said that presenting an argument based in misogyny or bigotry isn't going to get Disney to change the direction of SW. Didn't they just fire racist Roseanne even though she had a highly rated TV show?
"your particular boycott"
There is only one boycott.
"You're practically alone."
Nonsense. Personally, I know many hardcore fans of diverse backgrounds: white, black, Hispanic from teens to 50s, male and female, liberal and conservative. All loved either Rogue One or The Force Awakens or both. Both movies star a woman. Total non-issue. Any problem had to do with rehashing from the OT, or how certain characters were handled like Kylo or Han.
The Last Jedi was the turning point that devastated everyone including me. All enthusiasm for future SW films especially Episode 9 is gone. The crap script, broken SW lore and the goal to destroy the OT characters to make room for the poorly written new ones are responsible. I only know 2 people who saw Solo while most hardcore fans decided not to go. Most aren't even in any boycott. They just lost hope for good SW movies.
Pro-quality youtubers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmqfUm4F8Ec&t=10s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeLqmeyXK_M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjkD5mK0ZMQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJRw56cOVw&t=424s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZPRuhTFkxc
George is a creative consultant. It's Disney that's not using him.