Anything to say about Rooney Mara as Tiger Lily in the movie Pan? How about Johnny Depp as Tonto? Carey Mulligan as Irene in Drive, Tom Cruise as William Cage in Edge of Tomorrow, Scarjo in Ghost in the Shell, Lio Tipton as Nora in Warm Bodies. Going by this logic we should all be up arms about these choices as well correct?
shareSignificant/iconic cultural, historical and religious characters should not be race-swapped or gender-swapped AND their portrayals should remain faithful to the original source material.
Tiger Lily is a minor character in the story so I don't think as many people were outraged. I think they should cast a Native American in that role. Rooney Mara is also a big star so she gets more freedom to take on different roles.
I didn't approve of the casting of Johnny Depp as Tonto and I turned the movie off after ten minutes. Tonto was historically portrayed by Native Americans so it was odd to see Johnny Depp in that role. Johnny Depp is a star so he can pick his roles.
The Tom Cruise movie is based on a Japanese anime All You Need Is Kill but the same character names are not used. William Cage is obviously a western name so I don't think it's a big deal. I think people would be mad if Tom Cruise played a character named Keiji Kiriya
Scarljo plays an android in the future so she's not replacing a person. She's also a star who can pick her projects.
I'm not familiar with the other movies that you highlighted. Most of the characters you highlighted are insignificant but Ariel is a huge character for females.
Here is the question though. If the character's race is not essential to the character why does it matter? Now when it comes to historical figures such as MLK, Abraham Lincoln etc, I think they should be obviously kept intact. You do not want a black man portraying Abe Lincoln and you do not want a white guy portraying MLK.
The live action Disney remakes lack of quality is not due to race swapping. It is due to the fact that they are making the same story everyone knows beat for beat. Beauty and the Beast did not have a race swap and was also lacking in quality. So I get annoyed when people act as if oh my goodness this broke the movie! No it did not! A remake needs to justify it's existence. You approach it from a different angle or expand on ideas to improve upon them. Also you know as well as I do if Tiger Lily was white and they flipped it they would be very pissed off. They would scream woke agenda at the top of their lungs. Regardless if she is a minor character or not.
People lost their mind about Zoe Kravitz portraying Selina Kyle/Catwoman in the Batman. Yet conveniently overlook Eartha Kitt, and the Year One comic book. There is more than one portrayal of Catwoman. Zoe looks like a spitting image of the Catwoman in the Year One comic book. Yet people screamed agenda! Woke! Before a plot line was revealed, a set photo shown, or a trailer revealed people were enraged. So to me it shows that the only acceptable thing to people like that is for Catwoman to be white. Otherwise it is a problem obviously.
Btw, in the original comic, Selena Kyle was half Brazilian (Comic Book Andy).
shareThe race and gender of the character will become more essential as the character grows in popularity. Fans of the character will recognize the appearance of the character and race and gender are fundamental aspects of appearance. The character will lose fans if the character changes their race and gender.
Remakes of classic stories should not be approached from a different angle or improved upon. These are classic stories that should remain unchanged. Most people don't care about minor characters BUT more people get mad when the changes are made to a significant/iconic character.
Mixed-race actresses like Zoe Kravitz, Eartha Kitt and Halle Berry have been playing Catwoman for a while so I didn't think it was a big deal. I considered Catwoman a second-tier villain anyway. It is a big step down from Michelle Pfeiffer to Zoe Kravitz. More people were complaining about Dano's portrayal of the Riddler as an incel.
Significant/iconic cultural, historical and religious characters should not be race-swapped or gender-swapped AND their portrayals should remain faithful to the original source material.
Changing the race is different from changing the gender. The whole point of Catwoman is her being a romantic foil for Batman. That is the function of her character. Changing her race does not betray this whatsoever. Characters also go through changes over periods of time. Wesley Snipes's Blade is the one most people are familiar with. Snipes's version is a far outcry from the one in the comics. What matters is if you execute your version of the character well. Ledger is different from the comics, Hamill, Nicholson, and Romero. He left his imprint on pop culture with his rendition of the character.
Disagree with that completely. Peter Jackson's King Kong was a good remake that approached things from a different angle. Batman stories go through this all the time. The Batman fully commits to the detective angle of Batman where the others only had elements of detective work. Nolan's delved into telling the origins of Batman which we had never seen. Burton brought darkness and gothicness to the superhero genre. They are approaching the same character from different angles. You can do this with stories also. You just need to do it well.
I disagree about her being a big step down from Michelle Pfeiffer. It is a different vision, in a different era told by a different director. There are certain elements Burton excels in, that Nolan excels in and that Reeves excels in as well. Just because you might prefer Pfeiffer does it mean Zoe is a big step down. I myself prefer Pattinson over Keaton and Bale but that does not mean Keaton or Bale were bad portrayals. Also no I have heard plenty of praise for Dano as the Riddler. Overall the film was considered one of the best Batman films ever made. It was a critical hit and a hit with audiences with enough box office cash to make a sequel with the same cast and crew. Anybody disliking it is in the minority.
So no I do not agree with you one iota sorry.
I believe race and gender swaps have the same overall effect on a character and story. Many fans of the Magnum P.I. show complained about the gender swap of Higgins since Magnum P.I. was a HUGE show in the eighties. The Equalizer is another show that was race/gender swapped for the TV and movie versions but I don't believe many people protested over a show that wasn't that popular. I didn't know the name of the protagonist of The Equalizer but I know the names of ALL the characters on Magnum P.i. I grew up with that show and watched it faithfully. I had no interest in watching the Magnum P.I. reboot with gender/race swaps.
Catwoman developed into more of an anti-hero over the years and she has her own comic book. There was even a Catwoman movie with Hallie Berry so she isn't just arm candy for Batman. She has become a symbol for female empowerment over the years and guys generally like reading about chicks with whips who wear leather. Burton put his personal stamp on the Batman franchise and the second movie was not successful partly because of the Burton weirdness. I don't think Ledger's Joker was significantly different from the other versions of the character.
Zoe Kravitz is clearly a few steps down from Michelle Pfeiffer. Michelle Pfeiffer is an accomplished actress who still turns heads at age sixty-five. Zoe Kravitz is a nepo baby who looks ugly and freakish. Batman is too big to fail. It's not possible to make a bad
Batman movie since the characters are so awesome.
I don't agree with most/all of your positions but it is good to engage in a discussion and debate. Other viewers of the thread can look at our arguments and benefit from the exchange.
I don't agree at all. How does race swapping affect Catwoman? What's the basic requirement of the character? Femme fatale who is a romantic foil for Batman. She's feminine but has shades of grey. If you change the gender that distorts a fundamental aspect of the character. Race does not. She's tough but has that feminine energy. Kravitz has that. She's also got the aspect of being an action character which makes people love her. Batman Year one is one of the most beloved Batman comics if all time. And Catwoman is not white in that comic. Kravitz heavily resembles that version of the character. So when people go no it isn't her I'm like well it doesn't need your approval. The comic is beloved.
He was quite significantly different. Comic book Joker has bleached skin. Is it a fundamental aspect no but it's a common trait most people attribute to him.
Also again disagree. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. No way in hell do I take Pfeiffer currently over Kravitz. Still turning heads yeah no bud sorry. She was a gem in her prime but that's delusional. I myself think Kravitz is prettier even when Pfeiffer was in her prime. Yep I said that you heard me. Also no you can make a bad Batman movie. Batman and Robin a critical and box office bomb. Bvs and justice league were also critical disasters. Justice league was also a complete bomb as well.
We can agree to disagree.
Selina Kyle/Catwoman in The Batman: she was a pleasure to watch, but her character was the weakest link of otherwise splendid movie. Nothing to do with her race or skin color.
shareNo I disagree I thought she was one of the stronger elements of the film.
shareShe was easily the worst part. And before you shit your pants and say that the only reason I didn't like her is because of her skin color let me get this on the record: I liked Jeffry Wright as Gordon. Also you are a racist yourself so I don't know who you think you are lecturing others about race.
shareHeads up, this joker (no pun intended) called Candace Owens an "Uncle Tom" because she dared to not toe the liberal agenda. He's the worst kind of racist.
sharedid ANY black* people EVER ask for this change? Ever? I never ever heard anyone ever.
did black* people not watch the original because she was whiteish?
* there is not best, preferred term to call black people. this also from a black friend of mine who said black was just fine and nobody cares.
An artist can portray a character any way they want to. If the race is not essential no one should care.
shareI don't disagree, but that didn't answer my question. ever heard black people longing for race swapped movies like this? because I have not.
the current rage is trying to be inclusive, diverse, and equal. why not just make new films for DEI?
Nope I have not. Let's get right down to it though. These live action remakes are soulless bland cash grabs. Race swapping has no bearing on the film's quality. Beauty and the beast wasn't a good film either and Bell was white in that. So when people act as if that's why the movie is bad I'm like did you watch the other films?
Black panther was originally black and you had people who screamed woke at that also. So um?
luckily, in todays environment, it would be JUST FINE to race swap the lead characters in Black Panther.
For DEI sake, as a white dude, I am publicly asking for this now. :) PROVE racism is gone by swapping the Black Panther lead to us now repressed white guys. :)
I do not have the power to make that happen. Personally I would not care if you swapped Black Panther. I only care if the race is essential to the character.
Side not though I do not believe white people are repressed. The majority of roles in Hollywood are still played by white people.
You don’t seem to understand the importance of “realism” in film and how it effects the overall movie.
Believe it or not some of us actually like to dissect these movies and not just turn our brains off and pretend it’s all just mindless fun.
Choosing a black actress that doesn’t even look like a mermaid and who can’t “act” and who “can’t sing” pretty much destroys any enjoyment.
You seem to view movies from the perspective of an 11 year old, that’s why you don’t understand why many people are crapping all over the race swap. If you actually sat down and dissected the movie, you would notice that the film is completely hollow. It only exists to push a woke agenda. Not even the music was handled with care, just about any white female actress could have elevated this bad movie without much effort.
Lol no. Beauty and the Beast was not elevated by the fact that Emma Watson played Belle. I am not defending these live action remakes they are soulless crap. However to act as if they would be saved simply by casting an actress who looks like the character was debunked by Beauty and the Beast.
What do they change in these live action remakes? Little to nothing. A remake needs to justify it's existence. Either you approach it from a different angle to tell a new story or you expand on an idea not fully fleshed out in the original. You copy it beat for beat and well you see how that is.
I stopped seeing these remakes rather early on. I do not need to see them in order to find out they are bad. I just do not think they are bad simply because of a race swap like you do. I am not that ignorant.
The only thing ‘The Little Mermaid’ live action remake needed to do was nail the character of Ariel…..and maybe not butcher the songs…..that was it….not very difficult, right?
Yes the beauty and the beast remake also sucked, because although they got the skin color right they chose the wrong actress to play the part.
Now if your argument is simply that the movie was just gonna suck regardless of what bimbo cracker played the role then have at it……
But let’s not pretend that a mediocre movie can’t be uplifted by an amazing lead performance if you cast the character correctly. Just because Jay Z and Beyoncé wield all the power in the world doesn’t make it “okay” to throw an ugly black actress with no talent into a big budget movie just to push a “woke” narrative.
Lol again nope you are wrong. It doesn't really help the film. We have already experienced those things before in the original. It wouldn't boost the film much at all. You could cast the most talented singer in the world and it won't make any difference. Beyonce was in that awful Lion King did it help? You got Hans Zimmer back to do the music did it help? John Glover as Adult Simba did it help? Trained singers who sing did it help? Nope it did not!
These movies aren't mediocre they are awful. No actress would make the film any better. Beauty and the beast proved my point. You idiots are too stupid to see that. It wouldn't have mattered if the black actress was as talented as Meryl Streep you would focus on the skin color and nothing else. The race swap has little to no affect on the quality of the film.
So no you can take your ignorance and get lost. I don't support these films because they suck. I couldn't care less about the ethnicity of the actor. That's a you problem.
I remember there being some controversy about those, especially Depp playing Tonto and Johannson in Ghost in the Shell. There were outraged articles, blogs, social media posts.
I'm pretty sure there were.
Don't expect the activist to remember that, as it doesn't support his argument.
No surprise that he/she's obsessed with Trump and constantly posts in Politics.
When was Trump voted out? Time to get over it buddy.
This activist doesn't really care about racism. The activist's true motive is proving to himself that conservatives are bad. Forgetting that the majority of the world don't care about Trump
Literally no one gives a fuck about race except the left. The reason why some people are annoyed though is because if the swap went the other way the left would be screaming racism and pissing their pants over it. The double standard is what people are "enraged" about not the color of the actresses skin. But I'm sure you've seen this movie about 10 times so far so you must be feeling pretty good about yourself. Also someone who refers to black women who don't behave the way they think they should as "Uncle Toms" doesn't have any authority in lecturing anyone about race.
shareSo it is the "left", whoever they are, that is protesting Halle Bailey's part in the film.
I've seen your posts where you're having a fit over the casting choice. Are you claiming to be a leftist?
No one is “protesting” her part in the film, we are irritated that if the race swap went the other way it would be racist and “white washing”, but if we have a problem with this race swap then we are also racist. We are also irritated that instead of focusing on telling a story Disney is more concerned with the skin color of their cast which has lead to them putting out a ton of shit over the past couple of years. Then when people don’t like the subpar work they immediately blame the bad reviews on racism as if they are the victims that what they are trying to sell isn’t popular. It’s beyond childish and I promise you if these movies were better they wouldn’t be getting any backlash.
Please show me a post where I am “having a fit” over a casting choice.
Bailey's part also brings the black skin they are so opposed to. Who is this "we" you are referring to?
Race swaps are frequently going the other way. Why are you trying to convince the people on the forum that you are completely ignorant of white actors portraying black characters? Surely you are not that clueless?
Why do you think Disney is more concerned with skin color than putting on a show and making money?
Really? You're always making claims and refusing to support them with any evidence. You have a lot of nerve asking me to prove anything I say about you.
So then why has no one complained about other previous black characters such as Morgan Freeman in the Dark Knight? Or Jeffrey Wright as Felix Leiter? Or Samuel L Jackson in anything? No ONE because your cult are the only ones who care about skin color. I'll say this again: NO ONE IS AGAINST BLACK ACTORS!!! We are against the double standard that it's OK to race swap in some situations but not in others based on the actors skin color, which is the very definition of racism. Your cult is trying to impose two different sets of rules that are solely determined by skin color. It's not reverse racism, it's just racism.
Your second paragraph is beyond naive, if you attempted to race swap from minority to white your cult would hit the ceiling like they did when Shamaylan “white washed” the Last Airbender or when Naomi Scott was cast in Aladdin despite not being middle Eastern, even though Agrabah is a FICTIONAL COUNTRY!!!
Disney is constantly throwing their diversity quotas in our faces and when we complain about the weak characters and subpar story telling they play the race card, just look at what they did due to the backlash over the Kenobi series. People didn’t like it because it wasn’t good but instead Disney chose to attack the fans and called them racist because one of the main characters (who was poorly written BTW) was black.
So then you can’t prove it? Figured.
Also let’s say Disney did a remake of Moana and cast a white actress, are you seriously trying to tell me your cult would be ok with that? Of course they wouldn’t , they would be calling her every hate filled bigoted comment in the book just like they do to black conservatives
Ouch! That was brutal. And I couldn’t agree more. I’ve seen this explained so many times and it’s in one ear out the other.
It’s almost if deep down they know but are hoping your racist anyway.
You seem to be reaching massively (disingenuously) with these comparisons.
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