My god. I’m sitting here in disbelief... I didn’t need a perfect happy ending, but this just felt so hopeless and sad. After everything Jon has done and fought for, this is what he deserves? Bran is king!? I can’t
shareAt least Ghost got some proper love, finally.
shareI don't know, that semi smile John had went he went North of the Wall with Tormund hinted that his "sentence" wasn't all that sad for him.
share[deleted]
Yeah, years ago I said that if Jon had no oaths or family obligations, he'd go live with the wildlings and find himself a nice bossy spearwife to settle down with. So he's good.
And his "sentence" to the Night's Watch was just to get him out of King's Landing before his presence became inconvenient, Bran and Tyrion are perfectly aware that the Night's Watch is defunct. They even let Sam forget all about his vows.
Agree-unbelievable. I would have been shouting at the screen, but I'm just too wiped out from last week's episode.
shareBut honestly, wasn't this show always hopeless and sad from the beginning? I always thought that about this show. I couldn't understand why the fans liked it so much. I genuinely want to know the fans' opinions on this on this thread. Serious question, what do you guys think? Was it always hopeless from the beginning, or in your opinion was the show cool/exciting from the beginning and was only hopeless at the end? Genuinely curious, I'm not being snarky.
shareWasn't hopeless, more like a picture of what would happen in real life, with no happy endings and where the hero doesn't wear plot armors. And everything was quite logical.
Things changed to this ... mess.
Thanks for answering. I always wanted to understand it from the point of view of someone that loves the show. For me, I felt the opposite. When I was watching it, I didn't feel like the amount of messed up things that happened in the show were all that realistic. Its like, *everyone* was super mentally ill and always acted super mentally ill. I can understand the Targs because of 300 years of inbreeding. But even a lot of the side characters just acted so crazy all of the time. Everyone had a torture fetish, nobody could just kill someone with a sword.
shareBack when the show began, it was brilliant. My idea of the perfect TV show. It was complex and multi-layered and demanded a lot of attention from the viewer, because not only were the characters and relationships deep and complex, and everyone had a backstory you had to know to make sense of it all, there was incredible drama and spectacle and every episode ended with a huge shocking surprise!
It was not only the most gorgeous and visually spectacular program ever made for TV, it had some of the best and most complex writing. It one of those few visual stories where you didn't sit back and say "Well the books were better" as one usually does, because the show delivered every bit of interest and complexity the books had to offer, and did the books one better by editing where appropriate. The show was freaking awesome and I was hooked immediately! I ordered HBO the minute I finished the DVDs of the first 3 seasons, just because "Game of Thrones" was so very very amazingly wonderful!
Sadly, absolutely everything I loved about the show was gone by season 8. Where once there were complex and surprising scripts that held up to any amount of analysis and nitpicking, we have sloppy crap where everyone is out of character, nobody's actions make any sense, and plot holes abound. It's a sad fall from grace.
That was a good review, thank you!
shareIt's a damned-if-they-do-damned-if-they-don't situation.
No matter what D&D did it would be wrong.
I disagree, I think everything they did in season 8 had a chance of working, if they'd taken enough time to develop their ideas and held the writers to the same standards as they did during the early seasons. Well, everything except putting Bran on the throne. That's just a stupid idea.
And thank you to Albertmar above [wave].
I think that the ideas are sound, even if they weren't developed properly. I will agree they weren't given time to develop; but I will disagree that this somehow makes the final season poor television.
I have been desperate lately to find something that is actually interesting to watch. Television lately has disappointed me terribly. But this season of GoT has truly captivated me. I've been grateful for it.
I would say "It's nice that somebody liked it", if I didn't think it's impossible for anyone over the age of 12 to like season 8.
So I think you're trolling.
I'm not trolling.
I have two shows I've been watching lately: GoT and the Chernobyl mini-series. I'm waiting on the Hot Zone mini-series from Nat Geo.
TV sucks right now. There is nothing on that is worth watching. GoT has been a much-needed oasis.
It's not like every previous season of the show has been golden. I actually quit during S2 my first time around, only to come back later and give it another chance.
I have to think that you're just mad your preferred ending didn't go down.
No, I think almost everything they've done in season 8 could have worked, if they'd held the writers to the standards they'd had in earlier seasons instead of rushing through everything and leaving great big gaping stupid plot holes everywhere. I mean, how do they expect the intelligent fans to believe that someone could go from world-saving hero to irredeemable villain IN TWO WEEKS?
Of course that could have worked if they'd fleshed it out. Almost everything could have, except making Bran king. That was just a stupid idea.
Otter just because someone liked season 8 doesn't mean they are trolling. If thats what you think you're just not able to accept that others have a different view to you. As you can see others liked the final season, it's not just me being an 'intern'. You might be totally unable to fathom why/how someone could like the final season, but that doesn't matter - if someone likes the final season, they have the right to say so, without being accused of trolling, or being an intern for the guys who work on the show. We're all allowed to have our own different opinions no matter how little you understand nor agree with them.
I was joking!
Okay, part joking. I really don't see how anyone who appreciated how good this show used to be can like season 8.
People have different levels of expectations, some (like me) are more easily pleased than others.
And there was a lot to be pleased by, despite the pacing/writing issues - acting was great from many of the cast, score was brilliant throughout, some of the cinematography was the best I've seen in the entire series, particularly some of the shots with Dany in it - technically I'd say it was one of the best of the series, if not the best.
For many (probably you included), none of that matters much if the writing/pacing is poor. For others (me included), those other aspects can mitigate for writing/pacing issues. Different people value different things in a show too, to differing levels.
What a lovely response! Most people who defend S8 have been a bit rude about it, but here you've presented a thoughtful and rational defense of it.
You know, that's actually how I feel about the Star Wars prequels lo these many years after the initial disappointment. I've come to love the score and the spectacle and those performances that are good, now that I've gotten so used to the bad things that the they no longer sting. I'm hoping to feel that way about S8 some day, and it's nice to know that some rational people can get there without all the negative feelings I had to go through. I hope I feel the same about S8 some day, I know I'm capable of it in time.
Because yes, you're right, I do hold the show to very high standards, and I did that because they really did meet the highest of high standards for a very long time. The incredibly tight writing, the direction that brought out every bit of suspense and drama the story had to offer, the casting and acting, the marvelous production design. Even tiny things, like Tywin Lannister writing letters by candlelight and dusting the page with sand instead of flipping it over, because the ink of those days dried so slowly they had to go through a drying and blotting process... and now having Brienne flip the page of the Kingsguard book right over when she'd finished a page. Yes, that's an incredibly tiny nitpick, but they really did hold up to an extremely high level of nitpicking for a very long time, and it's very hard to see that sort of excellence go away.
I wasn't aware of details like that. But it makes me wonder, how did the people making the show know this in the earlier seasons, but forget it in the later seasons?
shareIn the early seasons they really did write for the sort of fan who knew what medieval ink was made of (oak galls), who knew what side everyone's father or grandfather had taken in the Robert's Rebellion war, and who remembered fine points of characterization from several seasons earlier. I think the slide started when the show was solidified as a big hit and nobody in the production department or writer's room needed to worry about losing their job, there were some big boners by S6.
But the slide accelerated to an avalanche in S8, obviously someone
from the top told everyone "Speed is everything, from now on the official policy is that details don't matter".
Exactly. The story demanded huge spectacle fights towards the end. And people are going crazy because wahhhhh not enough character development wahhhh. We’ve had character development for almost 10 years. The climactic major conflicts were upon our characters now, shit is hitting the fan. Like wtf did these fans want? A major battle followed by 4 episodes of sitting around with more talking? Yawn.
shareAgreed 100%. My favorite part of the series was the complexity of the characters and the non-linear storyline and how with each episode there was this constant feeling of a slow build up to something epic and then when that epic thing happened it delivered in the mot unpredictable of ways.
This season 8 had no depth, no complexity, and just terrible/boring/predictable/uninspired writing in general.
I agree with you 100%. I loved all the seasons except the last. The relationships were complex, multilayered, and I was hooked. But this ending, with Dani going mad, and wiping out innocents everywhere was just too much. Made no sense, because there wasnt enough time to build her madness. But it will go down as the best series of the decade. I will miss it.
shareNot hopeless. It set the tone that this wasn’t your typical fantasy story that will give you a fairy tale ending.
shareI liked the hopelessness. In real life we seem to be somehow convinced that the good will have good things happen to them. Sometimes a good person suffers and suffers and it never gets better. Or, after years and years of suffering, maybe they were about to start a good job, maybe they just met someone special, and bam!, they just die in an accident, or they fall down a flight of stairs. This divine justice, I don't see it. Certainly not for everyone. I liked that these characters had things happen to them that they didn't deserve (both good and bad), and that some of those things were shocking and unpredictable. For me it was close to real life.
But what made the show for me was that it was also well-written - very good dialogue, exciting, and it made sense within that world. The writing has been going downhill for me - I think it was last season that was all about curse words and very little insightful stuff - I remember thinking this about Tyrion in particular.
I loved ep 5, I had no qualms with it and to me it made perfect sense, even though yes this whole season feels rushed.
I hated the finale because I think finales are supposed to be exciting and memorable. This was absolutely boring for me and I didn't expect it, especially from a show like this. I even paused the episode to go outside to grab a coffee. I didn't like what happened to Jon but my biggest issue was with Bran being king. A group of people just accepting what Tyrion - a prisioner, mind you - was saying? No issues with the voting, no argument? That I feel was truly rushed. It was a major, major part of the series, and the ruler of the seven kingdoms ended up being this barely human thing with the personality of a potato? What a terrible choice, it made no sense and it needed more explaining. Even with the possibility that he manipulated everyone, it is still boring. Which is the worst definition I can think of for the finale of a show like this.
Okay maybe I should've worded it differently. It felt Empty and that everything had been all for not. As I've said, I didn't need a big happy ending with a pink bow on it. Maybe something bittersweet. Maybe she didn't go mad and the love between her and Jon had been more believable and in the end he had to die somehow to have Dany take the thrown. Jamie doing that 180 didn't seem logical for having the heart he grew... Cersei's death? Why did she get to die in the arms of the one person she loves? I guess it was poetic but she deserved just a little worse. I could go on and on with how this show tied up. It was tragic and sloppy. We deserved better.
shareThe small council scene brought it back to what the show was like before all the drama made everyone get serious.
shareThis fan thought it was a fitting end, and a great final season.
shareYou're not alone. I thought this final episode was genuinely a great piece of filmmaking.
Frankly, I think it's just a situation where, after eight years of build up, no ending would be satisfactory.
A few days ago I thought it was all right, but now I am liking it more. It's just a lot of stuff getting thrown at the viewer, and each of those scenes really needs some time in between.
sharewasn't perfect but i liked it and was sad it all ended. The final season was great!
shareAgreed. I am so angry with Jon's fate. He deserves more than this. He has sacrificed and gone through so much, and for Bran to be king and he a Night's Watch again?
This show went from a 10/10 for me to a 6/10. I am so disappointed and in utter disbelief.
Jon isn't in the Night Watch. He joined the Wildlings to live free. A happy ending for him.
shareI hated it nonetheless as well as his sentence.
At the beginning of the series, he chose the Night Watch. It was never a "sentence" for him.
Now, he's choosing to live with the free folk. Freedom. No government. He and Tormund are riding horses so I'm assuming they will be the leaders of the free folk. A bitter sweet ending.
He didn't want to be king. Look what happened with Robert when he took the crown. A miserable drunk. Jon did the right thing.
Jon isn't Robert, he was more similar to Ned though.
shareThe point being that Jon would be miserable as King of Westeros.
Jon has a happy ending with his pal Tormund and will likely fall in love with another wildling, have kids and live happily ever after.
BTW, Ned didn't want to be Hand or go to King's Landing and look how that turned out for him.
Ned also didn't want to be Lord of Winterfell and that went well for him. As hand he was unprepared for all the people that were already set up in Kings Landing. With Jon it would've been a brand new beginning with Tyrion as his hand.
And that little smile they gave Jon in the end, I don't buy it. And he deserves be tree r than to be expelled from his family and not be given his name. Of all people, he deserved and should get that more than anyone.
You want a cliched ending for him as king. Instead, Jon did get the happy ending he deserved - freedom and happiness living with the free folk.
If you think about it, nobody saw him kill Dany and Drogon took her body away. If he kept his mouth shut, nobody would know he killed her. But, he was like Ned. Honest, open and noble. Ned lasted two minutes with those qualities. I doubt if Jon would've lasted much longer. Telling his psycho lover, Dany he had a better claim to the throne wasn't a good idea.
I want resolution for the characters and everything hinted and shown to us for the last 9 years. And I don't abide by twists for the sake of a twist ending, that's truly asinine.
shareA cliched ending for the characters wouldn't make sense. For example:
John was stupid so he'd make a horrible king. Remember Tywin 's lesson about a king needing wisdom.
Arya trained with The Faceless Men who worshiped Death. Who better to kill the Night King who brought back the dead?
It made no sense that fans wanted Jamie to kill Cersei or stay with Brienne. Jamie passionately loved Cersei and knew and accepted she was bad since they were young.
How many person's have fought to destroy tyranny only to replace it by becoming a new tyrant like Dany? She had the personality traits for one from the beginning except most fans didn't pick up on it. No surprise she went mad when she was increasingly rejected, betrayed, isolated and suffered so many losses. Very tragic figure.
King Bran was the best choice. He has compassion and empathy. He forgave and could see the good in both Jamie and Theon. He has wisdom because he knows all history which he can use to make wise decisions. He has a heroic story that people can celebrate and support. He has the right temperament and lacks an ego.
Did Ned Stark not also deserve more than he got?
shareTrue which is why this felt like a Ned or the red wedding scene all over again.
shareBut that's the show. . .
I don't think this is really equivalent though.
What did Jon always say about any kind of power? "I don't want it."
He enjoyed his life north of the wall. He didn't like politics.
This is a happy ending for him. He's finally free of duty and able to just live his life.
Yes I agree, PrimeMinister... He always wanted to live free and wild. His first love was the wildling (who is actually his real wife in real life), so for him to go back to that life made perfect sense.
shareSo Bran didn't go through anything... Han sacrificed himself to become the Three Eyed Raven...
shareHopeless and sad in what way?
Crazy Dany is dead.
Jon gets to go join his Wildling buddies.
The Starks rule Westeros.
Arya is off on a new adventure.
Tyrion lives.
Are you SURE this the "hopeless and sad" ending that could've been? Because I can think of endings that would be much worse. Like Cersei sitting on the Iron Throne as the credits roll.
This ending was much happier than I thought it would be. I was expecting a major bloodbath. I'm glad Tyrion lived.
shareI really think this is pretty good. I liked it. I thought it wrapped up the story well, while also being just a good piece of filmmaking.
I don't understand what people are complaining about? I assume that they're personal favorite ending, which they have built up in their mind for eight years, just didn't happen.
I really thought that was a pretty damn happy ending. If GRRM ever actually finishes his books i'm sure it won't be so nice. Even the Unsullied got the keys to a shiny new kingdom.
shareYeah, I think people are just complaining to complain. After an eight year build up, there is no ending that would've satisfied people.
Honestly, I think everyone is just sad it's over and are acting out. It's an expression of grief over no more GoT to look forward to.
You might be on to something there. It seems to me that its extremely rare a popular long running show like GOT ends and there isn't a big backlash from a lot of fans. The only one I can think of that pulled it off is Breaking Bad.
shareYou've said this repeatedly in the past despite being provided ample evidence to why people are upset and are still keen on ignoring the points they bring up.
shareI think the evidence, as the poster right above you says, is that it's very common for people to complain about how a show ends. People so very often want something more, or something else, than what they're given.
And I'm not ignoring any points. I just think people are being a little unfair. If there's a point that I think is legitimate, it's that the final season felt rushed and D&D should've given themselves a full season to bring the story home.
Okay, fine. They should've done that and didn't. Turns out though that even rushed GoT is enjoyable. It's just a bit less enjoyable than the show has been in the past. I'd still take it over 95% of everything else that is on television right now.