Was the manager at Chotchkie's all that bad? - Office Space (1999) Discussion

[–] mdwilliamson35-1 13 years ago

Yeah in reality, he wasn't that bad. I've had worse bosses(WAY worse!) that even they couldn't push me enough to flip them off and quit on the spot.
The Chotchkies manager, while not asking for too much from Joanna by adding more flair, but I think it was the condecending way he was saying it and then holding her standards up to his perfect little "Golden boy". That passive-aggresive kind of crap doesn't fly well with alot of people.
And since the theme of this movie was about people in authoritive positions don't always know best, they kind of made the Chotchkie manager a different example in comparison to Lumbergh at the tech-office and how they really aren't that different after all in the way they approach matters.
There was even a part cut from the very ending when Peter and Lawrence were working in the clean-up crew, and the Foreman approaches them and says "Ummm, Yeah" in a very Lumbergh-esque way. I guess Judge trimmed that line out since it kind of implies that Peter will be stuck in another job he really won't be happy in.

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[–] Paul_Ke 13 years ago

Oh yes, he was that bad. He did the typical manager's trick to Joanna by asking her: "You do want to express yourself, don't you?" to which she understandably replies: "Yeah" (just to get him off her back). Then later in the movie, he uses this against her by saying: "Well I thought I remember you saying you wanted to express yourself."

This so typical of a manager. That's what they do. It's like Joanna said, if he wants her to wear more pieces of flair, then he should just tell her that. But he won't, because he can't, as it's not required to wear more pieces of flair. So instead, he plays mind games with her.

If wearing the minimum number of pieces of flair is unacceptable, then they should just change the minimum number. The manager made his point that they encourage wearing more. It should have stopped there. But no, he badgers her again later in the movie about it. He's pressuring her and stressing her out to do things that are not required by her job. He's doing this just to make himself look better. So yes, he is "that bad."

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[–] rude41 13 years ago

Oh Absolutely! You're dead on. And he was very skilled at playing games with his employees especially
jennifer. This is the type of guy/manager that don't mind flipping off, and then contacting corporate to see what their position is.

I am guessing that nothing would have happened, but merely putting in a complaint could be enough
scare him.

Not likely though.

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[–] scannerdarkly (1400) 3 years ago

You get enough people to complain and corporate has to take it seriously. But if theres one complaint and you stick around at the job, management will find a way to retaliate against you.

One manager at my job at a restaurant got fired after many complaints of her using racial slurs to kitchen staff. The bitch was sexy with a nice body, but the complaints were genuine. She was too use to being a tool to everyone with her good looks saving her, but not that time xD

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[–] Towelie_Towel (1786) 2 years ago

Pics or it didn't happen.

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[–] NewFreedomRider 10 years ago

Precisely. Typical managerial manipulation and dishonesty. My company is filled with disingenuous game players just like him, for whom I have zero respect.

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[–] CasseroleWorshipper 13 years ago

Of course he wasn't a bad manager. I would say he was the opposite. He wanted the place to have a cheerful vibe and noticed Joanna wasn't really contributing to the friendly atmosphere and tried to persuade her to just be more joyful and see the flair thing as something fun. And I wouldn't say he was an *beep* about it either, but rather making a point.
I don't mean to impose, but I am the Ocean.

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[–] Paul_Ke 13 years ago

^The problem is that he shouldn't have made an issue of it more than once. One time is communication. More than that is badgering someone (to do something that is not required).

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[–] Hiragana_Kanji 12 years ago

The first time he said something she should have put more on . It just little dumb buttons if a boss suggest you wear more. you just wear more.

The arc of history does not bend toward justice through capitulation cast as compromise.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Hiragana_Kanji 12 years ago

A Corporate tool is different from someone who just shows more then the minimum amount of effort.

For example she Jennifer character assumed that she was being asked about the lunch specials . In place of telling him what the specials were she just said something to the effect of read it yourself. He could be a person that does not know how to read or have countless other issues. But to blow off someone like that shows that she just does care.

And people complain about the happy guy .. why since he puts his best forward even in a crappy job. I was bust boy at one point and I said to myself I would be the best damn bust boy I can me. It is about taking pride in what you are doing .. no matter if you are leading to free world are cleaning up crap from a table .

The arc of history does not bend toward justice through capitulation cast as compromise.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] puschit-1 12 years ago

I think you missed the point. If he had upped the minimum amount to 40, she would have worn 40. But that would not have satisfied him because it's the minimum. What he wante Joana to do is to commit more, to do more than just the required minimum. And while we are only talking about stupid flair buttons now you can bet that this is his personal agenda and that he expects you to do more than the minimum in other areas as well, for example in doing overtimes or cleaning stuff that you are not strictly required to clean etc.

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[–] hka-3 11 years ago

I think you missed the point. If he had upped the minimum amount to 40, she would have worn 40. But that would not have satisfied him because it's the minimum.

Yes, even if the minimum was 40 and she wore 50 he might still have a problem with the amount she wore.

The problem was with him setting her up to fail if she wore an amount which she was told was acceptable.

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[–] nutsberryfarm 11 years ago

if he hooked me up with some jalapeno poppers?

Veneration of Mark Twain is one of the roots of our current intellectual stalemate

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[–] avortac 10 years ago

I skimmed this thread to see if anyone 'got it', but so far, didn't see the light bulb.

The thing is; he wanted her to WANT to have more buttons - in a sense, he wanted to implant an alien 'want' into her, without him being the bad guy or having responsibility for doing so. Basically it's the passive-aggressive take on controlling and manipulating people; NOT DIRECTLY STATING that he wants more, is the key.

Because he doesn't simply want her to WEAR MORE (that's never the issue) - he wants her to WANT TO wear more. He can't of course order her to want to wear more (it's an oxymoron and an impossibility to want something because someone wants you to want something, because it's not a real want, you are simply obeying someone else's want, not expressing your own).

It's like trying to obey a command to not obey commands. Can't be done. The same way if someone orders you to be 'yourself' or 'natural', it's impossible to obey, because if you obey, you are immediately doing something 'not-yourself' and 'unnatural' (because instead of just expressing what you really are, you are obeying an order - so if you do it to obey, you are not really doing it, so you are not obeying, so .. it gets to be a paradox).

Because he can't order her to want to wear more, he tries to manipulate, imply, hint and lecture her into realizing that she should have such a want, although it of course can't officially be a requirement (if it was, it wouldn't be the same thing, because a want that comes from an order, is not a real want).

It's like trying to create false motivation - some people have it (the annoying fellow worker) and some don't, and basically, she is being warned, that if she doesn't have it, well, the career might not flourish..

It's all about the boss wanting the employee to WILLINGLY bend to his will and expectations, and it's just not the same thing if she is ordered to wear more. Then she's not doing it out of her own free will. He wants her to obey an unsaid command, he wants her to basically give him her soul by adding more buttons out of her free will. And when she doesn't, it annoys him, because he doesn't have 'full control' until she does. He doesn't have her complete obedience and faithfulness - he only has her surface obedience, and he wants it all.

I hope this clarifies what was going on in the movie.

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[–] acidraindrop (3055) 2 years ago

This post makes me want to give this movie another shot. lol

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[–] rude41 11 years ago

That's naive. He was a typical passive aggressive who didn't know how to communicate with his employees.

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[–] dudemonkeydan 13 years ago

Yes, he was that bad.

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[–] gabby_bm 13 years ago

He was implying that he wanted more from her than just the "minimum". He couldn't ask her to do so, but wanted to get more out of her than just the base line. Once he could coerce her into that, he would know that he could continuously coerce her into doing more and more.
"Wear more flair"
"Come in on Tuesday"
"Mikey called in sick"
"hang decorations off the clock"
"We're giving the girl with big tits your weekend shifts"

Be a team player.

Brian, the golden boy, would lick the toilet bowl clean in the restrooms to show that he's a 'team player' with the idea that he would somehow, some way be rewarded for his extra efforts- never knowing that would simply place him on the list of "most usable employees".

the manager will simply use that kind of person to make themselves look better for their district manager, getting by with the 'bare minimum" to keep an employee like that. Yeah, they'll appreciate you, but that appreciation won't show up on the paycheck It will manifest itself in "good job" pat-on-the-back cheap talk and maybe a $5 gift card at Christmas time.

Speak louder, Mr. Hart! Fill the room with your intelligence!

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[–] Kunoichi15 12 years ago

I was an employee like this, the kind who works overtime to show the bosses that they care, and exactly as you put it--being the golden girl just got me a lot more things to do, a lot more responsibilities I didn't get compensated for (no promotion, just had to do the job anyway) and never got a thing in return. The harder I worked, the higher I set my standards. Meanwhile, the Joannas of the workplace continued to slack off, I covered them, and they didn't get in trouble. If I screwed up, I heard about it for weeks.

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If what I have posted offends you in the slightest, please press Alt+F4.

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[–] the_la_baker 12 years ago

I share your pain. I CANNOT work corporate anymore. I was "the best" and did way more work than I should have because I have a decent work ethic and picked up the slack. All that got me was more work/responsibility. when I was hired I asked about time off and the manager told me I had to have someone cover for me. So I did that when my mom came to town. I got zeb to cover my shift one night. The next time I went in the supervisor said "you can't have zeb cover for you, he sucks"! To which I replied "that's not my problem. I didn't hire him and I can't fire him". At that point I literally pulled a Peter and started not showing up for work or show up really late without calling. It went on for over a month before I quit. They would have allowed me to become another worthless employee that doesn't get fired. I fell back to my original passions, drums and carpentry, and 10 years later am much happier.

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[–] deem714 13 years ago

I can see both sides of the coin.

On the negative aspect, he is indicisive and wanting her to express herself but with more than the minimum pieces of flair. He never answered her question of "so... More?"

On the positive aspect, he is a lot nicer and has a lot more tact hand than some of the psychos I have to deal with at my elementary school. Having a closed door meeting because of something that was brought to thier attention (by gossip queensto boot) that was none of their business anyway? Being observed in November, having received notification that it wasn't satisfactory in december, having verbal reassurance that you will be given another opportunity in January, having no opportunity as of yet, and having the written notice of your unsatisfactory rating given to you the day before the superintendent arrives which was late last month. How about having your class interrupted for "do you know where xyz is in the library, you were there for 2 months last year..." GIve me a break I am trying to teach!!

"Oh Thank you God! Thank you so BLOODY much!" Basil Fawlty

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[–] dkgambler 13 years ago

Yes he was really that bad for one reason: His passive aggressive BS. I worked with a woman for a long time who would never come right out and say what she wanted, and I wanted to wring her neck. But then just for fun I started to go with it and turn it back, and it was enjoyable.

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[–] onerichard 13 years ago

I say... really? Joanna needs more flair? She has a pretty face...that should be enough flair for the restaurant.

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[–] jeffreymkennedy 13 years ago

Yes, he was that bad. As stated by many others, the passive aggressive BS was bad enough but as is becoming more and more pervasive in corporate-run restauraunts, he was fixated on something that has NOTHING to do with her abilities as an efficient and capable SERVER! I've waited tables in MANY independently owned restauraunts for years with the trade-off being that servers were generally judged on their professionalism, experience, dependability, etc. The downside is the fluctuation of business according to season, trends in dining, economy, etc. It was'nt until I worked for a major chain (upside:constant and dependable stream of customers year round) that I saw up-close how these chains and their power-trippin middle managers focus on so many things that have absolutely NOTHING to do with customer service (and therefore decent tips from the CUSTOMER for a job well done). If the manager at Chotchkie's had'nt been harassing her about her lack of "flair", you had better believe it would have been something else, like scraping gum from under tables, rolling hundreds of bundles of silverware or upselling whatever low-quality crap they needed to get rid of before it expired...all for 2 dollars and change an hour. Her priority as a server was and should be tending to customer's requests in a friendly, efficient and professional manner- unfortunately we did'nt get a chance to see whether or not her character did that. I bet she did.

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[–] avortac 10 years ago

"I worked with a woman for a long time who would never come right out and say what she wanted"

Aren't all women like this? They sulk, and you never know what's wrong, and they won't tell ya.

Anyways, I once worked for a guy, whose verbal assignments were like: "Andhfgheresouknownaghgh!", while waving his hand and then walking away. I just had to somehow deduce what he wanted me to do.

It was very stressful not to know if I am doing what he wanted at all, OR if I am doing it the way he wanted, and after hours of toiling during extreme stress, he'd come, look at my work and say something like: "goorghng", which I took as a compliment that I did it correctly.

That was a NIGHTMARE situation, let me tell ya.

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[–] MrBook_ 13 years ago

I can't believe there are this many people who are even tolerant of the Chotchkie's manager. He was meant to be awful and he was. I actually hate him considerably more than Lumbergh. Have any of you guys even had a job before?

I don't have a license, but I drive very well, officer!

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[–] deem714 13 years ago

^^ I will repost my thoughts because I definitely HAVE had a job before. I have one now and the second paragraph is what I have to go through now.

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I can see both sides of the coin.

On the negative aspect, he is indicisive and wanting her to express herself but with more than the minimum pieces of flair. He never answered her question of "so... More?"

On the positive aspect, he is a lot nicer and has a lot more tact hand than some of the psychos I have to deal with at my elementary school. Having a closed door meeting because of something that was brought to thier attention (by gossip queens to boot) that was none of their business anyway? Being observed in November, having received notification that it wasn't satisfactory in december, having verbal reassurance that you will be given another opportunity in January, having no opportunity as of yet, and having the written notice of your unsatisfactory rating given to you the day before the superintendent arrives which was late last month. How about having your class interrupted for "do you know where xyz is in the library, you were there for 2 months last year..." GIve me a break I am trying to teach!!

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Sorry, but I'd rather have the chotchkie's manager being in charge of me than the people with masters in administration who chose to get on the gossip bandwagon that I HAVE to put up with.

"Oh Thank you God! Thank you so BLOODY much!" Basil Fawlty

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[–] HowYaLikeDemApplesWill 12 years ago

You're correct...all the principals in this movie were meant to have a miserable work existence, and this included Joanna.

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[–] SydLorraine 12 years ago

NO - Stan wasn't that bad. If anything, he was quite laid back. He wouldn't have said anything to that jerk Joanna if Brian didn't say anything to him in the first place.

Philadelphia Phillies (78-79)
Philadelphia Eagles (2-1)

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[–] 12 years ago

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