What was with the pedophilic connotations?
This is one of my fav movies but it could've done without the underage attraction between Leon and Mathilda. The one shot that kind of lingers on her backside I always found weird.
shareThis is one of my fav movies but it could've done without the underage attraction between Leon and Mathilda. The one shot that kind of lingers on her backside I always found weird.
shareI watched this movie when I was a teenager and remembered enjoying it. The parts I remembered were about him training her to be an assassin, the villain of the movie, and the last action scene. I thought all those things were great.
I rewatched this last night. What I didn't remember was all the scenes of her coming on to him and the part where she tells the hotel clerk they're lovers. There's even a weird song choice when she moves in with him that talks about "exciting sex" and she also briefly performs Like A Virgin to him. They even exchange "I love you" during the climax of the film.
I get that Leon isn't into her but some adult male wrote this story and made the young girl deeply attracted to the adult male in a way that seems like some creepy weirdos fantasy. It feels gross and wrong. I also feel that they made Leon a little too "nice" and "naive" to her advances. He should have done more to reject them and make it clear to her that he's an adult and she's a child. Instead he just reacted with a goofy dumbfounded look. Either way, I don't know why a movie about an adult training a little girl to be an assassin and protecting her had to be so creepy and fixated on who she was attracted to.
Without providing a comment on this matter one way or another, but regarding this line:
"Instead he just reacted with a goofy dumbfounded look."
I think this movie heavily implies that Leon is slow and oafish. He's just a genius hitman. He's not at all mature.
I did not get the feeling he was into her that way. I thought he felt a fatherly love for her and her obvious crush on him, and attempts to appear sexy to him made him very uncomfortable because he loved her as he would a daughter.
shareYep... I kept holding out hope it wasn’t veering the creepy way, but at the end when he called her “Baby” I was like “Ohh daymn this’s for real”.
shareThat's interesting, because he never once called her babe or baby.
There are two characters using the word baby in the movie in two scenes.
One is the guy they kill during her "training session", the other is Mathilda herself when she answers Leon's counter question after she accused him of snoring... "like a baby!".
That's interesting, because he never once called her babe or baby.
Meh, big deal. xD
I checked a script online and it resulted in what I said in the post above.
However, him calling her "baby" - especially in the context of the scene, changes nothing.
Let me guess, that's "PeDOphilIa", right?
Say it. Make my day. xD
LOL. Pathetic little weasel accepts he's wrong. Well done.
shareWhich changes nothing, as I explained, but I allow you to ignore that because I understand how important that is for you. ;D
Back to the main post...
Lol this is hilarious. I can feel you seething through your post. Next time make sure you know what you're talking about. Clueless idiot.
share...says the one claiming "pedophilic connotations" and "attraction between Leon and Mathilda" where none exists.
The only one who's completely unhinged and probably has some veins popping out while foaming is you.
I am enjoying a drink while playing Empire Total War and laughing my ass off over your asinine accusation that Leon is a pedophile.
LOL at playing Empire Total War. Way to expose yourself as a Cheeto fingers loser in his mothers basement. You're seething buddy. It's ok to be wrong.
shareNever ate Cheetos in my life and I live in my own house (well, paying it off still, but same difference), but okay, impressive NPC-level insult, man. I am completely beaten by that. Oof. Someone call an ambulance and inform the burn unit so I can recover....... oh God I just pity you at this point, really.
Also, you seem to know what Empire Total War is, which must mean you play video games yourself because that game is waaaay too niche for a non-gamer to be even aware of.
Ha! Called it!
You made multiple comments about multiple games like the resident Evil series, The Last of Us, Mario Bros and Death stranding, so you're a total main stream gamer but you try to insult me with your Cheetos basement bullshit pretending you'd be any better? Really? xD
You seriously try to insult someone who plays grand strategy games while you think Biohazard 4 is the best game ever. What's next? "LOL you like history and having to use your brain! OMFG SUCH A LOOSAH!".
Ugh, you're insufferably dumb.
You continue to make yourself look so incredibly sad... why are you doing this to yourself?
Again, the only one seething here is you.
You're literally raging and stumble over your own bullshit in every post by now.
LOL 6 paragraphs. Looks like I hit a nerve. Checkmate.
shareArguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you're still retarded. I think it's hilarious when losers like you think they won something on a public message board with anonymous users. Here's a gold star to make you happy. ⭐
shareLol the lack of self awareness is astounding. A deadbeat with almost 10,000 posts calling other people losers. Take a look in the mirror buddy.
shareSo you have nothing except to attack my post count? Your stupidity is astounding. But you win so quit embarrassing yourself. Besides, I'm a disabled veteran so I have lots of time on my hands so I like to hang out here. What is your excuse?
shareArguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you're still retarded.
I already conceded to your awesome internet win. Do you want another gold star, Goober?
shareBut you said even if you win you're still retarded, implying you're retarded if you even take part in the argument. Your IQ and my shoe size have a lot in common.
shareWhy are you still replying to me? I already conceded your win here. I guess you really want another gold star so here you go. ⭐ I made a very old joke and it obviously triggered you. You even used bold type. But you won whatever so goodnight. I'll even be the better man and let you get the last word in because I know that's important to you.
shareStop projecting buddy, you were triggered by my mention of your post count, to the extent that you edited your post claiming to be a 'disabled veteran'. Sure you are.
shareLuc Besson made this as a love letter to a girl he met when she was Matilda's age, later knocked up at the age of 15 and then dumped.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
The agenda originated in Europe, so their movies reflected it long before U.S. movies.
shareI didn't get the impression that Leon was into her that way. I got the impression that he was an incredibly good hitman but otherwise had some deficiencies mentally. He didn't do a very good job dissuading her say the way the average adult might when approached with a similar scenario, but that doesn't default to he was going to hook up with her.
shareTurns out the director wrote this movie to emulate his own relationship with an underage girl. Looks like my intuition and discomfort was totally justified.
shareI just did some reading up, whether it was or wasn't, there's definitely a creep factor being 31 and dating / marrying a 15/16 year old who is pregnant with your child. I mean, I'm not French, but I'm guessing in France that is also not normal behavior.
shareThere are reports he met her when she was 12. I mean even 15 is creepy.
shareWhat pedophilia?
There is none, not for a second throughout the movie.
There was zero sexual interest for Mathilda from Leon, absolutely none.
The movie went out of its way to make that clear, yet here are the sexually ill-educated Americans who continue to use big words they do not understand - but who cares right?
Mathilda sure had some sort of crush on him, but that has nothing to do with pedophilia, which feels stupid having to explain in the first place. Any sort of sexual affection or interest Mathilda has shown, he immediately blocked off. He reacted deeply uncomfortable and was unsure how to deal with her behavior due to his own emotional immaturity until he told her the story of his late girlfriend and Mathilda completely dropped her spiel.
Maybe look at the screen of the movie you're watching every now and then instead of being glued to your fucking phone all the time and perhaps you won't embarrass yourself in the future with such dumb posts.
Directed towards anyone who now feels enraged and upset... you're exactly the person who needed to read this.
Try and read the rest of the posts on the thread next time before opening your fucking gob you absolute cretin. The director groomed a 15 year old in real life and got her pregnant at 16, this movie is inspired by that questionable relationship. There are absolutely some uncomfortable connotations in this movie and this is backed up by the directors personal life, which includes underage grooming and rape allegations. Now shut the fuck up.
shareNope, you are wrong.
SHOW me where the movie has anything to do with pedophilia. It does not matter what Besson's "inspiration" was, as long as none of it is in the movie.
The general claim is that the movie has pedophile undertones because of Leon and Mathilda. That is clear from this and many other threads and that is what my comment was about, so save me your smoke screen attempts.
There's zero pedophilia in this movie. Not shown, not implied, not in any way. That's a fact.
You are wrong. There are clear connotations which people have noticed, and that's without knowing the director/writers child grooming background. Once you know about the directors history, it all becomes clear. Nobody said this movie is about paedophilia, but there are connotations.
share"Nobody said this movie is about paedophilia"
LOL
The TITLE of YOUR OWN thread:
"What was with the pedophilic connotations?"
Another thread is called:
"Do you think Mathilda would have lost her virginity to leon..."
Another one is called:
"What's with all the "pedophilia"-related posts and messages in reviews etc for this movie?"
Posts throughout this board:
"Portman was too young. The movie gave me the creeps."
"How the hell does Kubrick pull off Lolita in 19 friggin 62 and the director of this movie has to cut a bunch of scenes with sexual tension between the main characters for American audiences in 1994? How does that work?"
One comment from this thread:
"Yep... I kept holding out hope it wasn’t veering the creepy way, but at the end when he called her “Baby” I was like “Ohh daymn this’s for real”."
How much more do I need to post?!
Yes, people ARE connecting this to pedophilia and that is exactly what my post was about, because they're wrong to do so and the fact remains that there's zero pedophilia in any way shape or form in this movie, no matter how much you want it to be true for whatever reason.
So maybe next time take your own advise and read your own thread and title and most importantly, learn what words mean before you use them, especially ones of such caliber.
Thanks for confirming you're intellectually dishonest and a complete fucking idiot. The majority of your reply is quoting other individuals, I don't give a shit what other people posted. I am only responsible for my own words. There's a difference between something being explicitly about pedofilia, and having underlying connotations towards it. Learn the difference. Quit while you're behind, your debating skills are pathetic.
shareYou:
"The majority of your reply is quoting other individuals, I don't give a shit what other people posted."
Also you:
"Nobody(!) said this movie is about paedophilia"
Can't make this shit up, really! xD
You keep contradicting yourself and proving my points.
Are you even trying at this point?
You:
"I am only responsible for my own words."
Also you:
"What was with the pedophilic connotations?"
Continue like this and you might defeat me because I die of laughter!
"There's a difference between something being explicitly about pedofilia, and having underlying connotations towards it. Learn the difference."
Correct! And my initial post reflects this perfectly - but go and tell me more about the inability to differentiate, because what you claim I said - I never did say, and my post is there to prove it.
I said:
"What pedophilia?
There is none, not for a second throughout the movie."
While you said already in your title:
"What was with the pedophilic connotations?"
Can you into logic for just one second, please instead of attempting to get me with your petty attempts of insults? At least try!
You:
"The majority of your reply is quoting other individuals, I don't give a shit what other people posted."
Also you:
"Nobody(!) said this movie is about paedophilia"
Can't make this shit up, really! xD
You keep contradicting yourself and proving my points.
Are you even trying at this point?
Correct! And my initial post reflects this perfectly - but go and tell me more about the inability to differentiate, because what you claim I said - I never did say, and my post is there to prove it.
You're acting like a toddler with your barrage of increasingly idiotic insults. This impresses no one.
However, you continue to fail to have any sort of argument, unfortunately.
You keep making claims but fail to prove them. Where are your "connotations of pedophilia" in this movie, exactly, when Leon shows zero sexual interest in Mathilda? Exactly, there is none.
Your whole "premise" is nonsense and of course you know it, you're just too stubborn and ignorant to ever admit you've been wrong.
"I'll repeat myself again, not once did I say this movie is about paedophilia."
And I never said that you said it is ABOUT pedophilia, that's a text book straw man if ever I saw one.
Read my posts again, I never said what you claim I did, I already said so in a previous post.
However, you did and do use the word pedophilia and that alone makes you already wrong.
Your petty attempt of an argument that the director groomed a young girl in his private life has nothing to do with it because what I said before remains an irrefutable fact:
>> There is zero pedophilia in any way, shape or form in this movie. <<
Go ahead, address what I just said!
Shut me up with all your facts!
Prove me wrong!
Don't be mad if I won't hold my breath, though...
Edit: What "uncomfortable connotations" in the context of pedophilia, exactly?
Mathilda being in love with an adult man?
The same adult man not having the slightest erotic interest in Mathilda in return?
Are you just telling us that I was right all along when I mentioned Americans using big words they do not understand? Appreciated!
You keep making claims but fail to prove them. Where are your "connotations of pedophilia" in this movie
when Leon shows zero sexual interest in Mathilda?
>> There is zero pedophilia in any way, shape or form in this movie. <<
Go ahead, address what I just said!
Shut me up with all your facts!
Prove me wrong!
Are you just telling us that I was right all along when I mentioned Americans using big words they do not understand? Appreciated!
"There are many references to paedophilia..."
No, there aren't.
Name ONE. Just ONE.
"Get one thing through your head you epic fucktard, this is MY thread. You entered MY thread and told me I was wrong. You need to prove ME wrong."
That's not how any of this works. Just because this is "your" thread doesn't mean you do not have to prove your claims. The burden of proof is always with the one making a claim or statement, it is irrelevant if this is "your thread" or you're just drive-by posting.
You claimed repeatedly now that there are "pedophilic connotations" but you fail to prove this claim, or rather accusation even.
I wonder, why is that?
Oh, maybe because...... there are none? Oopsie!
Lmao I love how you avoided every single example given. You're a sore loser buddy.
That's not how any of this works.
"Oh yes it is. If you're going to enter my thread and say X doesn't exist when many examples have already been given, you need to convincingly refute every single example provided in this thread."
Name ONE of the "many examples" for pedophilic connotations", especially in context of your claim that there's "attraction between Leon and Mathilda".
I told you to do so multiple times now, yet you fail to deliver constantly.
Again, with crayons: If you create a thread, a post, a comment and you make a statement or claim... anything... then you need to prove it.
You never did.
You just said:
"What was with the pedophilic connotations?"
and worse:
"...but it could've done without the underage attraction between Leon and Mathilda."
You're making a claim.
There is no "underage attraction between Leon and Mathilda".
Mathilda is, or thinks she is, attracted to him but to an emotionally intelligent person it is clear she wasn't really, because she drops her attempts immediately when he told her the story of his lost girlfriend.
Her having whatever sort of feelings for Leon has nothing to do with pedophilia either way, I said this from the very beginning. The deciding factor is Leon. And since he has absolutely ZERO sexual interest in her, which the movie goes out of its way to make clear so even the last idiot understands it, yet here you are, it isn't pedophilia. There is none.
Not implied, not in any sort of connotation... nada, niente, nichts, nothing.
No matter how many idiotic insults your throw around with, it will not change the facts and the facts are that you claim this movie has "pedophilic connotations" when it does not.
"You lose. Run along now."
You should have learned by now that your playground debate tactics do not impress me. All these sort of posts from you achieve, is telling me that you are wrong, because people who are right do not need to fling shit non-stop and instead can provide, you know... proof. Or at least an argument.
Name ONE of the "many examples" for pedophilic connotations", especially in context of your claim that there's "attraction between Leon and Mathilda".
I told you to do so multiple times now, yet you fail to deliver constantly.
Mathilda is, or thinks she is, attracted to him but to an emotionally intelligent person it is clear she wasn't really, because she drops her attempts immediately when he told her the story of his lost girlfriend.
The deciding factor is Leon. And since he has absolutely ZERO sexual interest in her
"You're an intellectually dishonest loser that doesn't know how to debate with any substance."
Enough about yourself!
Again: Name ONE example where Leon expresses sexual interest in Mathilda.
If there are "many examples"... well then name one?
I might as well let the cat out of the bag:
Mathilda is 12 in the movie (not 11, like you wrongly stated).
By definition, there cannot be pedophilia in this movie, because Mathilda is not a prepubescent child.
She is in fact in puberty which the movie also makes SO very clear... yet here you are.
Which leads us aaaaall the way back to what I initially said about you using words you do not understand the meaning of.
"LOL she drops her attempts?"
Yes she does drop her attempts completely as I correctly stated.
There's nothing in the movie after this point where she further pursues anything "romantic". And even IF... like I explained before, this is irrelevant because whatever her feelings are - it has nothing to do with pedophilia, contrary to what you continue to wrongly claim.
Again: Prove your claim that Leon is a pedophile.
"False. Again, he never once rejects her on the basis of age or lack of attraction. He specifically says 'he wouldn't be a good lover' as the reason why he's hesitant."
He phrases it this way to not hurt her feelings, you idiot.
Even him, an emotionally underdeveloped killer, understands a 12 year old girl with a misguided crush better, now that's interesting.
Let me get the crayons out again:
By phrasing it like he did, he did put no blame onto her, which would be crushing for a young person, especially if we consider what she's going through already anyways. He used his story to finally get the message across that he is not interested without destroying her by saying "I do not want YOU."
It's SO obvious, how incompetent are you!?
I might as well let the cat out of the bag:
Mathilda is 12 in the movie (not 11, like you wrongly stated).
By definition, there cannot be pedophilia in this movie, because Mathilda is not a prepubescent child.
Yes she does drop her attempts completely as I correctly stated.
There's nothing in the movie after this point where she further pursues anything "romantic".
Again: Prove your claim that Leon is a pedophile.
He phrases it this way to not hurt her feelings, you idiot.
"Again, you have no point."
Yes I do, and I explained it so even the biggest idiot would understand it, yet here you are...
"You can't even get basic definitions right."
No, that would be you actually.
Here are the facts:
[Pedophilia] "...is a psychosexual disorder, generally affecting adults, characterized by sexual interest in prepubescent children or attempts to engage in sexual acts with prepubescent children."
Do I need to explain what prepubescent means... again?
Because what you conveniently left out after your little google trip was the fact that age is not the deciding factor, biology is.
Puberty isn't clockwork. It can happen sooner or later, but there's no specific age.
What matters is that Mathilda is clearly in puberty, as stated earlier.
So as I stated correctly before: No pedophilia, one way or another.
The true question is... why do you want it to be pedophilia so badly?
It's like you're refusing to give that idea up... why is that?
"On the contrary they share what is clearly a romantic moment where they say 'I love you' to eachother and Leon calls her 'baby' and so on."
Case in point!
If you think that scene has anything to do with pedophilia, you're a completely lost case.
"I never called him a pedophile. Lol you know you're failing a debate when you have to put words in someone's mouth."
But you did:
"...underage attraction between Leon and Mathilda"
You literally said Leon is attracted to Mathilda.
...can't make this shit up, you debunk yourself, I don't even need to say anything, I just need to quote you. xD
"That makes zero sense."
As I said, it makes perfect sense... to any emotionally intelligent person.
I even explained it... yet here. you. are. ;D
No, that would be you actually.
Here are the facts:
[Pedophilia] "...is a psychosexual disorder, generally affecting adults, characterized by sexual interest in prepubescent children or attempts to engage in sexual acts with prepubescent children."
Do I need to explain what prepubescent means... again?
What matters is that Mathilda is clearly in puberty, as stated earlier.
"I never called him a pedophile. Lol you know you're failing a debate when you have to put words in someone's mouth."
But you did:
"...underage attraction between Leon and Mathilda"
You literally said Leon is attracted to Mathilda.
As I said, it makes perfect sense... to any emotionally intelligent person.
I even explained it... yet here. you. are. ;D
"There are many things in this movie that are hugely inappropriate, and Natalie Portman is frequently sexualised in the movie. Something else you have failed to comment on."
I did not fail to comment on it, I ignored it because it's a nothingburger.
"hugely inappropriate" is a conveniently unspecific statement considering your otherwise specific, and wrong, accusation of Leon being a pedophile. Almost as if you try to hide your absence of proof behind vague sentences....... naaah, you wouldn't do that, would you, now?
Portman being "sexualized" was never the topic and is a different question.
You were speaking of pedophilia in connection to Leon.
I quote you again:
"but it could've done without the underage attraction BETWEEN Leon and Mathilda."
Which is simply not correct. There is no attraction from Leon towards Mathilda and the movie makes this very clear in literally every single scene where she tries anything "romantic". The movie shows how extremely uncomfortable Leon is by her advances and never once did he do or say anything that would justify the accusation of pedophilia.
But go ahead and pretend that me forgetting a single word from the script is a big deal when you run around calling Leon a pedo. xD
Can't make this shit up...
Portman being "sexualized" was never the topic and is a different question.
You should have learned by now that your playground debate tactics do not impress me.
"Nobody cares about impressing you..."
Yet here you are, trying so very hard.
"you're a clueless fucktard that hasn't even watched the movie properly. You've been unequivocally proven wrong on your account of both the dialogue and the scenes."
I love how me forgetting about the word "baby" is literally all you have to jerk off to while you continue to ignore that it makes no difference either way.
If I'd be as petty as you, I'd do the same about you not even knowing Mathilda's age, but the thing is... not everyone is as petty as you are. I think you know that and that's why you're so extremely hostile and know nothing but insults, straw men and smoke screens.
That's sad.
Yet here you are, trying so very hard.