MovieChat Forums > First Blood (1982) Discussion > Who was more a fault, Teasle or Rambo?

Who was more a fault, Teasle or Rambo?


All of this probably wouldn't had started in the first place had Teasle just let Rambo (who was minding his own business) go on his way and not give him a hassle over being a Vietnam War veteran. Why should it be a big deal for Teasle concerning where Rambo could or couldn't go around town? It isn't like Rambo is a registered sex offender or a high profile past nuisance.

On the other end, Rambo wasn't being cooperative when he's in police custody. Of course, Teasle's fellow officers couldn't have known that he was suffering from a severe case of PTSD. But still, Rambo decided right then and there, that it wasn't worth the trouble to be formally arraigned and decided to start a fight.

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Most likely they didn't want vagrants sleeping on the sidewalks there. My town has a clocktower that chimes every 15 minutes and has bell sounds on the hour all 24 hours so no body stays around it long.

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Rambo didn't exactly look like a bum that would sleep on the sidewalk.

Teasle jumping to that conclusion was his first mistake, and of course the downfall for them all.

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I think Teasle is more at fault. He was a bigot and would not let Rambo get something to eat in his town. Had Teasle been a more charitable person and bought Rambo food before sending him on his way, the whole thing would not have happened.

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They were both jerks, but Teasle I guess is the bigger one. If Rambo wasn't such a douche when the sheriff asked him where he was from and where he was going, Teasle might not have bothered him. If Teasle wasn't such a douche about escorting Rambo out of town, Rambo probably wouldn't have come back.

But overall, Teasle was still the bigger douche. He was the authority, so he could have let Rambo get something to eat and still made sure he got out of town.


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Tf?

Are you crazy?

Even if he was those things he had no right to harrass him and kidnap him. Even if Rambo didnt have PTSD his reaction was perfectly natural. His arrest was illegal and anybody has a right to refuse to finger print, and anything else. Just because he was arrested doesnt mean his a slave and doesnt have a choice at all. That’s why they forced him cause they knew he could’ve refused and since the whole thing is corrupt they wanted to further incriminate him into additional crimes to conceal all the lies they already had. There only misfortune was that happened to be Rambo.

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Technically, Rambo had an illegal weapon, the knife. So he was in violation of a crime. Correct me if I am wrong, but Rambo kinda shoved the sheriff when the sheriff puts him hand on him? That’s a no-no. And when he gets arrested, he should have cooperated and just waited to see the judge; he didn’t have to go fighting and running off.

The sheriff shouldn’t have given Rambo that much trouble. But Rambo, at the same time, did himself no favors. They both made errors

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Teasle was, Rambo was unbalanced and could not fully control his actions, Teasle was a bully.

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"On the other end, Rambo wasn't being cooperative when he's in police custody."

Rosa Parks wasn't being cooperative when she refused to move to the back of the bus. Do you think she was at fault? Do you believe she "decided right then and there, that it wasn't worth the trouble to be formally arraigned and decided to start a fight?"

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Rosa Parks peaceful resistance vs Rambo’s fighting off 3 policeman during the arrest. There is a difference:

A more apt comparison to Rosa Parks would’ve been if Rambo had just quietly taken the arrest and explained what happened to a judge

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The Rosa Parks analogy threw me off because it isn't like Rosa Parks went on the run and took on an entire army of policemen like John Rambo.

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LOL, good post.

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Rosa Parks peaceful resistance vs Rambo’s fighting off 3 policeman during the arrest. There is a difference:

Actually, no. No, there's not much at all.

Look back at the sequence of events. When Rambo decides to walk back into town, because he's in the right and has broken no laws, Teasle arrests him, but Rambo does not resist. He only passively resists when they try to fingerprint him -- refusing to cooperate, but not actively resisting. Then later, Galt straight up illegally assaults while his back is turned. Then they "clean him up" by spraying him with a fire hose. This is low-level torture. When Rosa Parks resisted, the Montgomery police simply arrested her; they didn't physically assault her and deliberately inflict pain.

When Rambo snaps and fights off the three deputies, it's because he's having flashbacks to his torture at the hands of the NVA, and part of the reason that he's having those flashbacks is because Teasle's deputies are acting like those NVA thugs and torturing him.

The bottom line is this: if Teasle and his deputies had stayed within the law and not exceeded their legal authority, none of the violent events of the film would have followed. Rambo would have gotten his meal and moved on peacefully. And Galt in particular was more out of control than Rambo was -- and without the excuse of severe PTSD to boot: remember, Galt was trying to kill Rambo, in defiance of Teasle's orders, and he even threatened to kill the helicopter pilot for not making it easier for him to try to kill Rambo.

Maybe Rambo overreacted, but only after the worst sort of provocation, and again, none of it would have happened if Teasle and his men had behaved remotely like professionals.

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When Rambo decides to walk back into town, because he's in the right and has broken no laws..


Except that he did. While vagrancy laws are generally off the books in many areas, they still exist even if ignored, but in the 1980s in a small town, no one would question a sheriff arresting someone for vagrancy. Rambo fit every description of a vagrant, and Teasle, douche that he was, was still within his rights to escort Rambo out of town.

Not to mention the little problem with the knife he was carrying... Sure, Teasle should have just let Rambo get something to eat before escorting him out of town, but that's a different discussion.

And really, Rosa Parks also broke a law. As hard as it is to fathom, segregation laws did exist in some states and did in Alabama in 1955. Parks actually paid a fine!

Unless the judge was just as big a douche as Teasle, Rambo would most likely have been nolled and set free after his record turned up a veteran with no warrants and a Congressional Medal of Honor to boot.

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Except that he did. While vagrancy laws are generally off the books in many areas, they still exist even if ignored, but in the 1980s in a small town, no one would question a sheriff arresting someone for vagrancy. Rambo fit every description of a vagrant, and Teasle, douche that he was, was still within his rights to escort Rambo out of town.

No, he's not. Taking someone anywhere against his will is a felony; it's called abduction. Teasle's legal options in this case are two: charge Rambo for any criminal offense he has committed, or let him go. That's it. (Actually it's not: Rambo hasn't broken any laws, so that's not truly an option, but if he had that would be all Teasle could legally do.) Only if Teasle has probable cause to effect a custodial arrest is he legally entitled to take Rambo anywhere against his will, and in that case, there is only one place he can lawfully take him: to his jail. He has no legal authority whatsoever to run Rambo out of town, and when Rambo tries to walk back in, Teasle has no PC on which to arrest him.

BTW, you are talking to a police detective with 24 years of experience on the job.

And furthermore, this movie was released in 1982; Washington state, where this movie is set, repealed its vagrancy law in 1975. So no, legally speaking, Teasle didn't have a leg to stand on; he exceeded his authority, and straight up broke the law he was sworn to uphold. He couldn't even charge Rambo with carrying a concealed weapon for the knife, because he had no PC to arrest Rambo and search him, so the knife is the result of an illegal search that violates Rambo's 4th amendment rights, and it gets thrown out as fruit of the poisonous tree.

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No, he's not. Taking someone anywhere against his will is a felony; it's called abduction.


Sovcit are you?

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Don't be a willfully obtuse ass.

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Look I still think that Teasle was more at fault here but your analogy is fallacious. Rosa Parks didn't hit, stab, maim cops, nor did she light up a gas station or rip a police station to shreds with an M60. Teasle abused his power however Rambo retaliated with violence and even though at first it was his PTSD acting up causing him to think he was back in Nam, there came a point where Rambo realized what he was doing.

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Rosa Parks sat in the black section. She didnt make some courage protest to sit in the white section. Every day the white section would fill up and the bus driver would ask blacks to get up. That was her beef. Not that blacks were separated towards the back. Thats literally where they all sit these days.

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March 6, 2021 Saturday 3:40 PM ET

Even though both men are directly at fault, they are not completely, at least in Rambo's case. In his defense, he should have gotten better care and greater medical attention by the authorities he dutifully served instead of them treating him like an old toy ready for the recycle. He got put through the metaphorical "meat grinder" and was left out to dry in the "no longer deemed essential" line.

Rambo is a human being and deserved better. It's very telling that he finally cooperates when someone above him he respects shows him much needed empathy and compassion. It sounds emotionally mushy for a military man, but a soldier should never be left behind, be it on the battlefield or while trying to live a regular life at home.

~~/o/

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It's kinda mostly Rambo's fault. Just fucking leave. You were asked to leave and he insisted on causing problems. The cops that fucked with him at the station were obviously wrong, but Mr. Rule Breaker just had to come back into town.

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It appeared that Rambo felt that his pride was being challenged and insulted when Teasle told him not to go too far in his jurisdiction. So on that end, yes, I could agree with the notion that all of thus could've been avoided had Rambo just turned around and walked away. I get that Teasle was being kind of a dickhead about it with his tone and the way that he projected himself, but still is it really worth the trouble to risk pissing off a cop?

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Teasle is a an old school dick. He believes in judging a book by it's cover. He doesn't want Rambo's type - homeless veteran drifters - and I can't say that is right. He's judging an entire group of people based on his experiences with probably like 3 people. It's the definition of painting with broad strokes.

But he gave Rambo a chance. He drove him to the end of town and told him to move on. Rambo didn't. Rambo chose a fight over THAT. He blew up a town over being told to leave.

It's kind of a weird movie because you don't really like anyone. I can say I honestly LIKE Rambo in 2 and 3 (I haven't bothered with the other 2 outside of a few clips). He's a hero to me in those movies. I think I actually saw 2 first. But this one? Great movie, but they're all assholes.

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The officer told him to eat at a diner thirty something miles away.

He didn't drive him there. He just let him off on the outskirts of town.

That's not giving Rambo a chance. In fact, it's not even appropriate that the cop basically kicked him out of town for no reason either. He has no right to make him leave like that. He wasn't even loitering around a building. He was walking.

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He kicked him out of town for vagrancy. In a small town back then, that charge may even stick. This took place in the early 80s, not today. I doubt anyone today would be charged with vagrancy (or something they would substitute for it) for simply passing through a town, much less convicted on it.

I get Teasle wanting a vagrant out of "his" town. I'm sure he dealt with them before. What he should have done was let him get a meal (I'd check to make sure he had enough money for that) and then drive him out of town.

I also get Rambo wanting to march back and get something to eat.

Perfect storm.


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I totally forgot that vagrancy was a crime in some areas lol.

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Yeah, probably one of those statutes that they kept on the books to keep undesirables out of town. I still think today, it would be tough to convict unless the guy was camping on the green and crapping in the bushes.

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Agreed, but it does conflict with my original claim of his kicking him out of town being inappropriate (legally).

Ofc, it's still hella unkind. At least drive him to the diner. I'm usually the type of a person that's more inclined to respect cops, but I totally get rambo coming back over the bridge like that.

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Vagrancy laws are persecuting people for being poor. Rambo wasn't hurting anybody so they should have left him alone.

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It took place in the early 80s. Not the 90s.

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Typo.

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You also should take into account that he had just learned that his best friend — maybe inly friend — had died, a (late) casualty of the same war Rambo had fought in (“he died in Vietnam and didn’t even know it.”) Pretty tough to take that and have to Teasle’s illegal order to stay put of his town. Had he said something about that Teasle would likely have had to back off, but if we know one thing about John Rambo it’s that he ain’t a talker.

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Sure, but Mr. Rule Breaker had just served his country, was tortured by the enemy for it and developed severe PTSD, and just learnt that his last friend died from chemicals used by his own military while doing the same. He thought the very least he could ask for in return, was to be allowed to roam free wherever he pleases in the country he (thought he) helped defend.

I mean, I wonder how many of the people who think being asked to stay home for their own safety (and that of others) during a global pandemic is an intolerable infringement of their freedom served their country...

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"He just served his country"

What does this mean? He just served his country so he can murder people and blow up a town?

An asshole cop asked him to leave. Even gave him a ride to the edge of town. THAT is worth fighting over? Please.

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I think he was more saying that Rambo had every right to be in Teasle's town and that Teasle was wrong. Which he was. Anyone who tells someone to walk 30 miles away to get a bite to eat is a no good stinking jerk.

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Sure he does. No one is really debating that. Teasle is an uptight prick. But Rambp burned down a town because he was asked to leave. Teasle is a dick, Rambo is a fucking psycho.And if I remember correctly, it was that one asshole cop in particular that started whooping on Rambo, not Teasle. The first dude Rambo killed.

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I wasn't saying that Rambo should have burned down the town. Teasle was more at fault for being prejudice and unsympathetic to poorer people than himself. If Teasle had let Rambo eat in town none of the events would have happened.

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If Teasle had let Rambo eat in town none of the events would have happened.


That's true. But Teasle didn't.

If Rambo had just left town none of the events would have happened. But Rambo didn't.

They're both assholes. What Teasle *should* have done is let Rambo get something to eat, then drive him out of town, which is why I give Teasle a 55/45 percent asshole win over Rambo.




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"What does this mean? He just served his country so he can murder people and blow up a town?"
***
It means I understand from your posts that you seem not to be the type to do anything on "general principles" and that you easily f**ck off when asked to by a bully, but Rambo isn't and doesn't, and had a right to freely go wherever he pleased as long as he was peaceful and law abiding, which he was when Teasle arrested him. The fact that he risked his life in defence of his country makes it an even bigger question of principle to him.

"An asshole cop asked him to leave. Even gave him a ride to the edge of town. THAT is worth fighting over? Please."
***
I know First Blood is a difficult film to follow, with an infamously convoluted and cerebral plot, but if you watch carefully you'll see the reason Rambo starts blowing shit up later on is because he's shot at when he tries to surrender to authorities (and has PTSD), not because he's asked to leave town.

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He literally went to jail for refusing to walk away, broke out, stole vehicles, killed a few people - some of which were volunteers - and proceed bring en entire town to it's knees because of an issue primarily with Galt and Teasle. If you think this is "standing up to a bully", you are mentally handicapped and belong on an FBI watch list.

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Mentally handicapped as I am, I can still manage to do three things you seem incapable of: 1) follow the plot of one of the "Rambo" movies, 2) understand the concept of escalation, 3) grasp simple causal relations.

Speaking of causality: is the reason you think I belong on an FBI watch list, that I'm mentally handicapped? Do you believe all mentally handicapped persons should be on an FBI list? Incidentally, you've made clearer to everyone why you couldn't grasp the concept of PTSD (either) as depicted in First Blood.

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I said Rambo was a psycho, that doesn't mean I don't understand the movie, you goof. That's a pretty shoddy argument. Definitely a bit of a logical fallacy.

I made the crack about the FBI because you have no qualms about supporting a character whose reaction to being treated unfairly - blowing up a town - is justified to you. Rambling about standing up to a bully, LOL. He was asked to move on and responded with EXTREME violence and all you can talk about is "hE sERveD hIs CoUntRy!"

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Ah nevermind... We probably did misunderstand each other, and my messages were a bit condescending and snarky. I apologise. Peace, and enjoy the movies, friend.

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Don't worry about it.

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The position you are advocating is basically this: when unprofessional cops exceed their authority, act like bully boys, violate your civil rights, and come down on you even though you have broken no laws, and all just because they "don't like the look of you," just shut up and take it. Don't make waves. Just tug your forelock like a good little serf and say "thank you sir, may I have another?"

Maybe that's the sort of country you want to live in. I don't, and it's not the sort of country its founders meant for its citizens to live in either.

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