MovieChat Forums > Jaws 2 (1978) Discussion > WAY better than Jaws 3D and Jaws: The Re...

WAY better than Jaws 3D and Jaws: The Revenge


At least Roy Scheider returned for this one and at least it did some new suspenseful stuff. Plus it was nice to see John Williams return to compose for the sequel and at the very least it didn't have laughable 3D effects, terrible writing, and one-dimensional characters that plagued the later films.

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No shit Sherlock
Nothing gets by you

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Sorry for stating the obvious and I feel like an idiot for doing it.

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You are forgetting Cruel Jaws (1995). 😀

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho8Nv-tSKCI

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Never saw that. I was referring to the first 4 Jaws movies.

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I was just kidding. Cruel Jaws is a “so bad it’s good” rip off.

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Never saw Jaws: The Revenge. The premise just looked too stupid to me, and I couldn't develop any enthusiasm for it, or any willingness to sacrifice two irreplaceable hours of my limited lifespan to devote to such obvious drivel. I haven't seen Jaws 3D since it was on HBO in the eighties, but I remember enjoying it more than Jaws 2. At least Jaws 3 went a different way, and tried telling its own, much different story. It wasn't a good movie, you understand, but it wasn't all bad.

Jaws 2, on the other hand, reused the basic plot of the first film, but it lacked all of the great elements that had made the first film such a success. It was nothing but a very pale, very weak imitation of its predecessor, lacking any originality or creativity. Yes, it still had Roy Scheider at least. But without Robert Shaw and Richard Dreyfuss to play off of, his presence alone isn't enough to save the film.

So I can give Jaws 3 some credit for at least showing a bit more originality.

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To your credit, Jaws 3 did have an original concept, but the only problem is, the 3D effects were laughable, it had ridiculous moments, and the characters just weren't that interesting. Say what you will about the side characters from Jaws 2, but at they least they had some personality. Yes Jaws 2 isn't a perfect movie, but still.

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Couldn't agree more. I've said it here a few times... I think the concept for Jaws 3 is incredible. A great white shark loose at a water park. It just got caught up with some bad acting and 3d.

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Dennis Quaid was high on coke the whole movie. He even admits he was.

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Disagree about Jaws: The Revenge. It may not have the most plausible plot but its redeeming qualities and audacious storytelling place it above 3 and 2. It’s endlessly fascinating, building on the Jaws mythology laid down in the first film and adding layers of depth to the Brody family saga. Add to that its exotic locations, haunting score and subtle performances, and you have a work that’s defied the critics to stand the test of time.

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Audacious?? It's as half-assed, uncreative, and poorly thought out as a horror/thriller sequel concept can get!
And it only raises more questions: The shark supposedly wants revenge... OK, so with the sharks in the previous movies having died, what shark is this? A friend? A relative? The same shark that's somehow reincarnated? Are all the sharks in the ocean connected somehow, therefore another has taken the previous sharks' place? Is there a specific, outside supernatural force in place here?
We never get an answer because there isn't one! And whichever way it is, killing it by spearing it with a boat' prow and making it (somehow) explode won't do any good, as another shark will just come straight after them.

Oh, and don't even get me started on some of the questionable excuses for filler: Ellen Brody becomes friendly with Hoagie (Michael Caine) and much of the films' short 87 minute runtime focusses on them making small talk, then Michael disapproves and reacts like a spoiled brat jealous other his mothers' undivided attention (what is he 12!?), and suspects Hoagie to be a suspicious character of some sort - a boring, melodramatic subplot that serves only to pad the run time and is left completely unresolved in the end (WTF?)

As far as "defying the critics" and "standing the test of time" is concerned: How exactly has Jaws: The Revenge accomplished this?? Last I checked, it still has the lowest rating of all the movies anywhere online, lowest critical score, lowest box office return, and derailed the franchise to the point that it (probably) won’t return.
It's also been listed regularly on many worst sequel/film themed articles published over the years. Can you figure out why?

I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

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And it only raises more questions: The shark supposedly wants revenge... OK, so with the sharks in the previous movies having died, what shark is this? A friend? A relative? The same shark that's somehow reincarnated? Are all the sharks in the ocean connected somehow, therefore another has taken the previous sharks' place? Is there a specific, outside supernatural force in place here?


The fact that we’re still asking these questions 36 years later is a testament to the film’s enduring appeal. It defies conventional storytelling to challenge the viewer to question the nature of reality itself. Good art is supposed to probe the mysteries of the human experience without offering simple explanations.


Oh, and don't even get me started on some of the questionable excuses for filler: Ellen Brody becomes friendly with Hoagie (Michael Caine) and much of the films' short 87 minute runtime focusses on them making small talk, then Michael disapproves and reacts like a spoiled brat jealous other his mothers' undivided attention (what is he 12!?), and suspects Hoagie to be a suspicious character of some sort - a boring, melodramatic subplot that serves only to pad the run time and is left completely unresolved in the end (WTF?)


Unlike the previous three, the Revenge actually dedicates time to the grieving process and considers the emotional gravity of each attack, something the series had largely avoided until this point (barring Mrs Kitner and Shelby Overman’s mistress). This entry features more patient, character driven storytelling than its action-oriented predecessors and may not satisfy viewers just out for a cheap thrill.


Last I checked, it still has the lowest rating of all the movies anywhere online, lowest critical score, lowest box office return, and derailed the franchise to the point that it (probably) won’t return.


Several classic films have been overlooked by the establishment and public upon their original release. Citizen Kane, The Shawshank Redemption and Fight Club all flopped at the box office only for their stature to grow with the passage of time. Jaws: The Revenge falls within this category, having become a fixture of cable television and gradually rising to the status of modern favorite. Rotten Tomatoes is not a true measure of a film’s worth.

Perhaps filmmakers feel intimidated to tackle the franchise after it concluded with such a bang, neatly wrapping up the Brody family saga while offering closure to long term fans. Credit should go to Universal for respecting Sargeant’s vision enough not to further taper with it.

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The fact that we’re still asking these questions 36 years later is a testament to the film’s enduring appeal. It defies conventional storytelling to challenge the viewer to question the nature of reality itself. Good art is supposed to probe the mysteries of the human experience without offering simple explanations.


You do realise that pondering and calling out obvious flaws (in this case logical errors, plot holes, and narrative inconsistencies) are two VERY DIFFERENT things, right?

Unlike the previous three, the Revenge actually dedicates time to the grieving process and considers the emotional gravity of each attack, something the series had largely avoided until this point (barring Mrs Kitner and Shelby Overman’s mistress’s meltdowns). This entry features more patient, character driven storytelling than its action-oriented predecessors and may not satisfy viewers just out for a cheap thrill.


What the hell? This doesn't address anything I said.
Besides, action aside the original Jaws is a very patient and character driven story - only it succeeds whereas this fails. Period.

Several classic films have been overlooked by the establishment and public upon their original release. Citizen Kane, The Shawshank Redemption and Fight Club all flopped at the box office only for their stature to grow with the passage of time.


Um... yeah. The difference is, those were actually good movies, Jaws: The Revenge is not.
They failed to recoup financially due to either poor marketing/distribution, having to compete with other movies, or a combination of the two. Whereas Jaws: The Revenge was heavily talked about back in 1987 and was attached to a popular brand, but it failed due to poor word of mouth (also not helped by Jaws 3-D's poor reception 4 years earlier).

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Jaws: The Revenge falls within this category, having become a fixture of cable television and gradually rising to the status of modern classic.


No it doesn't. In fact, it'd probably fall into obscurity if it weren't for being attached to a classic.
That said, the only real airtime it gets is when whichever channel is showcasing all the Jaws movies - for obvious reasons.

Rotten Tomatoes is not a true measure of a film’s worth.


If you paid any attention to my first reply, you'll notice that I NEVER ONCE mentioned Rotten Tomatoes.

Perhaps filmmakers feel intimidated to tackle the franchise after it concluded with such a bang, neatly wrapping up the saga of the Brody family while offering closure to long term fans. Credit should go to Universal for respecting Sargeant’s vision enough not to further taper with it.


But it didn't conclude, it was left open. Don't you remember Ellen's last line, "You all need to come to Amity next summer"? Yeah, they wanted to make more. But they didn't to bad reception and diminishing returns of the series. Full stop.

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You do realise that pondering and calling out obvious flaws (in this case logical errors, plot holes, and narrative inconsistencies) are two VERY DIFFERENT things, right?


The movie is deliberately ambiguous about the background and motives of the shark, leaving the audience to connect the dots for themselves. Modern viewers like to have everything explained to them in black and white so when an unconventional work comes along that subverts their expectations, they don’t know how to respond. You may not realize it, but the fact that your’e still piecing the puzzle together is a credit to the filmmakers’ audacity.

The film takes a more European, character-driven approach and maybe when you’re older, you might begin to appreciate the depth and beauty of Hoagie and Ellen’s relationship. How many Hollywood blockbusters feature two lonely, aging characters finding love in their twilight years?

The Revenge veers so heavily in tone from the previous three that audiences didn’t know what to make of it at first. The nuances of the story and depths of the characterization only become clearer with multiple viewings and you should not write the film off without properly understanding it.


But it didn't conclude, it was left open. Don't you remember Ellen's last line, "You all need to come to Amity next summer"? Yeah, they wanted to make more. But they didn't to bad reception and diminishing returns of the series. Full stop.


The plane flying off into the Bahaman sunset was the perfect ending to the franchise. The characters had found closure, conquered their demons and were looking ahead to a brighter future. Like Seinfeld, they opted to end the series on a high.

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The movie is deliberately ambiguous about the background and motives of the shark, leaving the audience to connect the dots for themselves.


No it isn't. It's sloppily put together due to the rushed production, studio being bereft of ideas, and just wanted to milk the franchise once more for profit.
If you actually read into the films' production history, you'll know this.

Modern viewers like to have everything explained to them in black and white so when an unconventional work comes along that subverts their expectations, they don’t know how to respond.


Wait, what? So you think all the negativity comes from modern audiences? Hahaha you're funny. This movie was slammed right from the beginning, for the same reasons it still is now.
Again, if you'd done your research, you'd already know this.

To quote several reviews from professional critics:

“I’m not sure who greenlighted this thing, but I’d bet they’re not working in the film industry anymore. Simply put, the script is awful—my seven-year-old daughter makes up better stories than this when she’s trying to avoid getting in trouble.”
- Mike Bracken, Culture dose.

"Jaws the Revenge is not simply a bad movie, but also a stupid and incompetent one. The screenplay is simply a series of meaningless episodes of human behaviour, punctuated by shark attacks"
- Roger Ebert, Chicago Sun Times.

And the audience reception was just as bad, hence its' bad buzz and diminishing returns at the box office.

You may not realize it, but the fact that your’e still piecing the puzzle together is a credit to the filmmakers’ audacity.


It seems once again you've misunderstood my previous quote:

"You do realise that pondering and calling out obvious flaws (in this case logical errors, plot holes, and narrative inconsistencies) are two VERY DIFFERENT things, right?"

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The film takes a more European, character-driven approach and maybe when you’re older, you might begin to appreciate the depth and beauty of Hoagie and Ellen’s relationship.


I get that Hoagie and Ellen's relationship is, despite it being boring, is supposed help Ellen put her fears/obsession behind her. But it drags needlessly and the interconnected drama involving Michael (already mentioned previously) makes no sense whatsoever.
And I'm not the first to call it out for such, so don't tell me I'm too young to "appreciate" it (heck, you don't even know how old I am).

How many Hollywood blockbusters feature two lonely, aging characters finding love in their twilight years.


Not many. But Back to the Future - Part III, released 3 years later featured something like this between Doc and Clara and pulled it off much better.

The Revenge veers so heavily in tone from the previous three that audiences didn’t know what to make of it at first. The nuances of the story and depths of the characterization only become clearer with multiple viewings and you should not write the film off without properly understanding it.


If that was the case, reception would've likely improved 36 years later. But that hasn't happened, so.... ?

The plane flying off into the Bahaman sunset was the perfect ending to the Jaws saga. The characters had found closure, conquered their demons and were looking ahead to a brighter future.


No, that clearly isn't the case here, for the reason I brought up in a previous post:

"And whichever way it is, killing it by spearing it with a boat' prow and making it (somehow) explode won't do any good, as another shark will just come straight after them."

Like Seinfeld, they opted to end the series on a high.


No, they ran it into the ground. If they wanted to end on a high, they should've stopped at 2.

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No it isn't. It's sloppily put together due to the rushed production, studio being bereft of ideas, and just wanted to milk the franchise once more for profit.
If you actually read into the films' production history, you'll know this.



"You do realise that pondering and calling out obvious flaws (in this case logical errors, plot holes, and narrative inconsistencies) are two VERY DIFFERENT things, right?"


The filmmakers had a bold, ambitious vision and while they may not have executed it perfectly, they deserve credit for their willingness to take risks and push the medium in new directions. This original opening narration may add some context to help you understand their intentions. Hope this clears up any misunderstandings you might still have.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek2EAJInAco

Wait, what? So you think all the negativity comes from modern audiences? Hahaha you're funny. This movie was slammed right from the beginning, for the same reasons it still is now.
Again, if you'd done your research, you'd already know this.


Ebert, God rest his soul, didn’t always have his finger on the pulse of the culture and made some missteps in his time. He famously gave the Godfather II only three stars while he outright dismissed Full Metal Jacket (**1/2), another misunderstood classic from 1987. I’m sure if he were alive today and revisited The Revenge, he might have picked up on its subtleties and had a change of heart, perhaps even added it to his great movies list.


But it drags needlessly and the interconnected drama involving Michael (already mentioned previously) makes no sense whatsoever.


You’ve never lost a loved one to a shark attack and wouldn’t understand the emotions involved. It was a complicated time. Your critique of this section of the film wreaks of ageism and insensitivity.


"And whichever way it is, killing it by spearing it with a boat' prow and making it (somehow) explode won't do any good, as another shark will just come straight after them."


Think Ellen had conquered her demons and made her peace with the past by the film’s end, which would have dissolved the psychic connection between herself and the great white species. It’s open to interpretation, but judging by her good spirits at the airport, she seemed to have found a sense of closure.

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IIRC Scheider didn't want to come back for this. He was forced under contract and fought with the studio and director from beginning to end on it.

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Hats off to Scheider for putting a good performance on. He didn't shirk his responsibilities as an actor like a lot of other actors do.

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It's definitely a series where each one is reliably worse than the last, the original was great then all downhill from there, in order

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Identical to the Superman series. The first is movie magic, a classic, the second is a decent film with a few flaws, the 3rd is a fascinating mess but still entertaining. The fourth is a complete disaster on every level.

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What?

Superman 2 is way better than Superman 1. The first movie is just boring and not very uninteresting while the second one is way more diverse and fun to watch.

Superman 4 while having many flaws is way better than the horrendous Superman 3. Superman 3 is a joke of a movie and it'd so goddamn boring it's insane.

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A pretty low bar to clear, it must be said.

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You are certainly right, but that's only because Jaws 3D is a trainwreck and Jaws 4 is somehow even worse. It really feels like each Jaws sequel's purpose was to top the last one's shittiness. "Oh, you thought THAT was a bad movie? Wait til you see the next one..." Jaws 5 would've been a Birdemic movie, and Jaws 6 would've ripped a hole in the space-time continuum.

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