https://deadline.com/2021/12/chris-noth-fired-the-equalizer-sexual-assault-allegations-1234899868/
share#MeToo strikes again, its weird you can ruin a persons life with just accusations...
Although it didnt work against dementia Joe, they squashed that woman...
Amen
shareI didn't work against Trump either. Apparently the more money and power a person has the more they can get away with. Funny, huh.
sharenot really, the accusations against Trump were political and were used as a ploy to get him out office.
Clinton had sex with a 19 yr old intern and no one cared, he got impeached for lying about it and not taking advantage of a naïve girl, how messed up is that?
Ummm, there were allegations against Trump before he ran for office. I'm not American and couldn't give a crap about your politics. I'm saying that rich men, and women, no matter what their politics are, can get away with assault, abuse, harassment.
It's amazing how assault can ruin a person's life too. Perhaps instead of thinking that oh no, #Metoo is out to ruin another man's life, start considering that maybe some behaviour needs to change.
Unfortunately, you'll find that many Americans won't pass judgment on those that align with themselves politically. They'll be quick to point to accuse people on the other side though.
shareoh yeah, well Trump is a billionaire, and most were looking for a quick payout.
but you are right, it goes both ways, but how do you prove a consensual sexual encounter was rape 20 years later? the majority of the time, people will side with the women. what would you do if someone you dated years ago suddenly accused you of sexual assault?
I feel bad for the true victims though but the problem now a days is an accusation can be used for monetary or political gain.
Remember the Duke case? those kids lives could have been ruined with false accusations, and some people prob think they are still guilty all these years later.
Jussie committed his own hate crime. this ruins it for the real victims.
They skewered Kavanagh for something that didn't happen 35 years ago.
dementia Joe was accused, her accusations were quickly dismissed as false.
Andrew Cuomo was accused, it was shut down for a long time, until finally he was forced to resign
The only way to cover yourself these days is to get a signature or a video record before you have sex with someone. Could you imagine doing that?
The only way to cover yourself these days is to get a signature or a video record before you have sex with someone. Could you imagine doing that?
Do some research.....the claims by the woman against Biden were completely disproven.
shareof course, but the ones against Trump and Kavanaugh were true?
so you dont support women that are assaulted? its either all lies or all truth. it seems to depend on the person though.
Did I mention anyone else? Quit playing the idiotic "what about game." It seems you just want to spread horseshit and lies just to do it and throw in more crap for some reason.
shareno, just proving hypocrisy...and that a man can be ruined just by an accusation...this is the world we live in now...
shareYou are being the hypocrite here. Yes, a man can, but you did the same thing with the Biden comment and added to it with your other comments. Frankly, I believe any accusation deserves a complete examination and investigation and then that is when the repercussions should begin if deserved. This is not calling a woman a liar or stating one does not believe such accusations, but the accusations deserve investigation.
sharenot really, but like you said they deserve investigations before we rush into judgment about guilt.
shouldn't an accusation of rape be investigated first? Noth was fired from his job over an accusation. nothing has been proven to be true or false yet, thats my point. He will probably never get to work again in the film industry.
Kavanagh was raked over the coals on Live TV, can you imagine how this affected his kids and family?
The Duke kids lives were almost ruined because of false accusations, of course the media jumped on that bandwagon and said they all were guilty even before there was an investigation.
again, this is my point, an accusation is seen as truth...
If you want to have a reasoned discussion or debate, I'm all for it, but when you throw out suppositions not based on fact or the presence of specific topics, then I'm not interested in that at all.
For example, I brought up the Biden accusation and how it had been resoundingly disproven of even being able to have occurred as it had been described and you returned with some ridiculous claim that I didn't give a crap about sexual assault. Then, to just cloud the murky water even more, you throw in two other people that I didn't even touch on and apparently just to score points or something.
You are cherry-picking to make spurious points to ignore my original reply to your comment about Biden and his accuser.
But at least we both agree that these accusations are so serious and with such serious repercussions that they do deserve a serious examination.
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Did you even read my original reply to jowilli? This is a completely different topic to my point and one I didn't even discuss. Let's stay on topic, eh?
share[deleted]
Fact: Joe was accused of sexual misconduct, harassment, assault by 9 women.
Fact: There was never a public trial proving Joes innocence.
Fact: Joe has never given a deposition under oath.
Fact: Joe's lawyers just said it wasn't true with no proof.
Fact: Joe's lawyers started a character assassination campaign against Tara.
Fact: There is a long history of Joe forcefully groping women against their consent.
Fact: Records given by Tara are still locked away and have not been released yet.
Fact: Any allegation of sexual misconduct against a man means he is automatically guilty.*
*source, see Chris Noth.
Ah, more FauxNews talking points. Go away will you....
And all of the "facts" you report are exactly what you have been crying about - rumors, innuendoes, and false claims. What are the sources of your information? Show accurate citations of real facts, not opinion horseshit.
And if I gave enough shit about your pablum, I'd look up the examination of the woman's claims because they were so full of holes no one took them seriously (the place she described didn't exist, people filled the area during the time she said it happened and so on)...
ah, I see you dont like facts, you must be a liberal.
go watch your biased liberal news.
all those facts were on wiki...but like I said before, an accusation is now truth...
Wikipedia???? Really??? Get real..
shareyeah, u wanted facts so I posted facts, but now you dont like those facts... JoWilli owns u...
shareSeriously, how old are you? Are you about fifteen? I would hardly claim what you posted are meaningful facts. They are statements that while true in some form, are still baseless and meaningless.
The type of fact you posted is like this one:
Ted Cruz's father is accused of aiding in the assassination of JFK. Yes, it is true that he was accused (by your idol Donald Trump), but the question remains whether he did or not - which is most unlikely, but still he was accused (so in your mode of thought, the mere accusation is enough to be a "fact").
That is the sort of "fact" you posted. Yes, Biden has been "accused" of this or that, but not one of them has been proven. And in FACT, the one brought up in this posting HAS been DISPROVEN on multiple facets. THAT is a FACT.
Now, go to beddie bye Jr....
"If you want to have a reasoned discussion or debate, I'm all for it, but when you throw out suppositions not based on fact or the presence of specific topics, then I'm not interested in that at all.
You are cherry-picking to make spurious points to ignore my original reply to your comment about Biden and his accuser."
I thought you wanted a discussion about facts? When I posted facts you said this:
"Ah, more FauxNews talking points. Go away will you...."
So you seem to ignore the facts when you don't agree with them. Which proves you really dont want to have a serious discussion.
Thats the point, it hasn't been proven or disproven, Joes legal team ran a smear campaign against Tara. There has been no independent investigation nor has there been a trial.
Why is Noth's career and the Cuomo's ruined by allegations but not Biden? Women are either to be believed or not, you cant pick and choose based on preference.
Andrew Cuomo was accused by 11 women, Biden by 9. Andrew finally had to resign in disgrace, Biden gets to stay in office. Is 9 not enough? Is 11 the magic number?
This will be my last reply to you.
For one thing, the reason I asked how old you were was that I do not know anyone of repute that accepts Wikipedia as a proven source. If I used that on any sort of research paper or the like, the citation would be refused.
Secondly, you are doing exactly what you are complaining about - taking unproven allegations as proof to smear anyone I guess you don't like (I mean, you want to run down the list of your obvious Republican heroes? How about the 30 women and Trump; how about Gym Jordan; how about Bill O'Reilly and so on).
Lastly, as I stated in a previous post, you just posted BS items as "fact" when they are not "facts" - none of them really have been vetted. Except for the woman who accused Biden of assaulting her in a location that does not exist as she described or during the time of day she claimed. And it goes even deeper than that when it comes to the discrediting of her allegations.
You seem to be going around around whining about things that you only want to go YOUR way - on one hand, you believe all allegations should be true, then you whine about them not being investigated. So just what is it? They are only true when it comes to people you don't like, but they are lies when made against people you do?
And I'm unsure about your argument about Cuomo because he is finished. Unlike Bill O'Reilly who paid out 30 million bucks and is still being rewarded economically with his books and tours.
This will be my last reply to you.
you are doing the same thing to me as Joe's lawyers did to Tara, information and character assassination.
you do realize that the information on Wiki is compiled from other websites? you can look up all that information and find out its true. but you wont because you are too lazy and just want to believe that only women that accuse dems are liars.
I looked up Trump and Jordan on wiki, since that site cant be trusted then that means its all untrue and the claims are invalid. See how that works? you are basically just picking and choosing what information to believe based on your own criteria.
Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh were both publicly humiliated with a trial.
Still no trial for Joe because 9 women accusing him is not enough I guess?
shouldn't an accusation of rape be investigated first? Noth was fired from his job over an accusation. nothing has been proven to be true or false yet, thats my point. He will probably never get to work again in the film industry.
To be fair, there's a key difference. Those tweets actually happened without dispute, while in Noth's and other similar cases, we only have an accusation, yet it is treated with the same certainty as the tweet. Also, "rapist" sticks a little harder than "stupid joke". Whether he's guilty or not, that cloud sticks forever.
shareI understand that there is a difference. I'm just saying that lives are not only ruined by accusations. It is part of cancel culture. Until recently, these men wouldn't be losing jobs. Is it unfair? I'm not sure. I'm still trying to sort out who's lives have been ruined by false accusations, and which accusations were true.
shareI don't support anything that defends a miscarriage in any direction. It's not acceptable to ring up today's potentially innocent person b/c others of his/her gender, race, color, or creed got away with murder in the past. I'm not "a few broken eggs" subscriber. More injustice is never the right answer. Say Noth (who I strongly suspect is guilty, but what do I know) was dealing with a single accusation, one person, one claim. And say he accused her of lying b/c of a vendetta or something. What makes the counter-accusation less weighty than the original? And when it comes to public figures, the damage can be far greater than to a civilian. In the current climate, free shots abound, and they work like a charm. I don't think smelling the opportunity these days is above some people. Just like I'm never surprised at some creepy guy raping/assaulting someone, I wouldn't be surprised at some creepy gal taking the opportunity to torpedo someone they hate, banking on "woman must be believed" -- as though something about their gender makes them incapable of lying.
shareI think where a lot of the #metoo movement is coming from with a lot of old allegations is that for years no one would have really cared because a lot of the behaviour that is being complained about was just accepted. The majority of allegations haven't been about rape, but about behaviours that are no longer tolerated and it's sending a message. What used to just be brushed off is no longer okay. Yes public figures can be sustain greater damage, but on the flip side, they are also the ones who historically could get away with it.
When it comes to fabricating stories, everyone lies. I know women lie, and yes, there have been cases where men have been falsely accused of many crimes, by more than just women. That is where the courts have to determine who is lying. When it comes to harassment, molestation, even rape, it is so hard to prove. It has always been so hard to prove and that's why so many people get away with it. I say people, because men are raped too, and not just by other men. Where is the physical evidence of a woman raping a man. Does that automatically mean that he should not be believed either? Then you also have the court systems who don't feel that rape done by certain individuals is enough to ruin their lives for. Even when their are witnesses and it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Can you not see where the anger is coming from?
I fully support that anyone who is proven to have made up an allegation to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but historically, those numbers are relatively low. About 8%.
The problem is....the lines between “assault” and regrettable (but consensual) sex are getting blurred. These days, if a woman has an axe to grind....perhaps sees some symbol of “the patriarchy” excelling...and resents how things in their intimate (consensual) past went down...she can lob a grenade at his career and public persona, to be punitive. In fact, it can even be a great way to land a big payout. And anonymously to boot!
These days, if someone even attempts to make the first move (like leaning in for a kiss) it could get construed as “assault”. We’re CONDITIONING young women to resent men...and weaponize a situation in which they clearly had chances to leave, were in full control of what was happening in the tryst.....and, have the ability at any point to contact security...the front desk....the police.
Now, if “no” is clearly said and ignored, THAT is a different story.
In the Noth trysts....I think he’s guilty of being a cad....but I don’t think either of those women were held down and forced to have sex against their will. I think they simply regretted it.
Lovely response, Ripkens25
shareShe can, but where are all these false accusations. Who has been falsely accused? Where are all these false accusations?
You think that Noth was a cad, but you don't know. You don't know that he didn't rape anybody.
That is 100% the point. We don’t know. But that has not stopped his career and reputation from going down the drain.
shareJust food for thought, how many women had their careers go down the drain because they wouldn't sleep with someone? Again, I'm not saying that I think Noth is guilty. I think an investigation needs to be done. As for him getting fired, that is capitalism at work. Cancel culture is a direct form of capitalism.
You still haven't answered my question as to where are all of these cases?
We’re CONDITIONING young women to resent men...and weaponize a situation in which they clearly had chances to leave, were in full control of what was happening in the tryst
And how many women became famous movie star millionaires under that same (Hollywood casting couch quid pro quo)? Capitalism....or capitalizing? That whole situation is a different matter. And while I don't think people getting way ahead in their careers by leveraging sex is right (and by the same token, losing opportunities) I do not think Harvey W. forcibly attacked anyone. I think people went up to the hotel room of a known cad with eyes wide open (but had regrets later down the line...and, saw a payoff opportunity). That is a different matter than the Noth situation. By their own telling, he was not auditioning them for career opportunities.
Those women willingly went up to his apartment with him....(probably with fantasies of being with Mr. Big). I think they had buyer's regret, the fantasy was dashed, and most likely they were upset....(perhaps for being ghosted afterward). In my opinion, from what I've heard so far, I do not think he attacked those women. I think he was a cad, and perhaps a drunk....certainly not the sensitive and ongoing affair that was hoped for. But again, if "no" was clearly stated and forcible sex without consent took place, that is a different story--and a crime. But if that were the case, why did these women turn to a tabloid rather than law enforcement?
Too often, the best way to get a quick payoff (and to give a punative middle finger to a cad someone has buyer's remorse with)....is to make these behind the scenes maneuvers.
How often does it happen? Who knows? Payoffs are often done behind closed doors, and with NDA's. As far as where all the cases of false reporting are....it's almost impossible for the man to refute allegations that have been exaggerated to a level where they sound criminal...(even if some of the time, they are simply a tryst...and a jilted lover wants payback...and a payout).
Singer Nick Carter was accused by former pop singer Melissa Schuman of raping her. Later Nick was cleared of all the charges against him.
Justin Bieber was accused by two annonymous people on Twitter of sexual assault. He is suing them, and they have since disappeared.
Lili Reinhart was accused of groping a fan. It was later disproved.
There are plenty more examples, but most I expect are handled quietly. In any case, I have no interest in doing this dance back and forth any longer. You have your opinions, I have mine. So be it. All I am saying is....the public should let this situation playout before ruining this man's career and reputation prematurely. That is all. Not unreasonable.
Unfortunately, so often this it's not about sex, it's about power.
shareexcellent post and exactly what I have been saying too.
shareI don't disagree with much of what you say. And although I have not been raped by a woman, I've had experiences where a woman has done the same stuff that women have suffered from guys. But historically, many women have felt completely comfortable doing so -- including in public places with plenty of onlookers -- b/c they assume the question of yes or no only lies with them. Same with assault. Women getting physical with a guy is never viewed in the same way by society, and even the law. There are plenty of old ways that need to be revamped b/c they're unfair to men as well -- but we can't say that yet b/c of our advantages. So yes, I understand the anger, but I can't spray it in all directions without care for due process or what's actually true in any instance.
Also, regarding that 8%. What of all the stories that strangely change after interviews, where things don't add up? Is that part of the 8% of proven false allegations -- or is it hidden under misremembering upon further reflection? Stories have a way of wilting sometimes. There was a case near where I live, a bunch of guys had been accused of gang rape in a bathroom. But the "victim" didn't realize there was a camera in there. When the cops showed her the video, she retracted everything. When you're cornered, you can just change your story. But I'm sure people will always look at those guys askew. Might be icky, but it wasn't gang rape. I don't know if they sued her, but the law doesn't go after "I remember it differently now". Case closed. Next.
Again. I am not denying that false accusations happen. They 100% do, I'm just saying that they aren't that common. I also have said this many times, and I will keep saying it, anyone who has been proven to have made a false accusation needs to be prosecuted.
As for women and their behaviour, I 100% think that men need to drop any of the stigma that goes with it, and they need to start accusing women of harassment too. Consent goes both ways.
“… its weird you can ruin a persons life with just accusations...”
Yeah, it’s understandable that sponsors and producers would not want to cast an actor with a cloud of accusations hanging over his head but, absent a conviction, it’s surprising that his employers are able to break their contracts. Unless, unbeknownst to the public, they are honoring the financial terms of the contracts and just declining to utilize him.
good point, but it was an accusation and not even proven to be true or false yet. thats what surprises me the most.
share(Reprinted from an earlier thread) The #MeToo harpies strike again in what is their usual modus operandi: make anonymous allegations, publish on social media, destroy career with no proof being shown to the accused nor any way for him to defend himself. We Americans are supposed to believe in the value of due process in a court of law and give the accused a chance to defend himself against allegations.
shareThe power women have these days. We should do an experiment and have men make accusations and see how that goes. Doubt we'll see that though.
sharePolygraph the accusers. They will probably fail the test.
shareThat should be pro-forma in these types of cases. I'm sorry but when a guy can lose his livelihood and never recover once the accusations prove false, it's about time women were treated the same. If their claims are true, they should go to the police at the time, not wait until decades later. And before anyone jumps on me, I'm a woman and a rape survivor. False allegations do none of us any good.
share"False allegations do none of us any good."
No kidding. False accusations, if proven later to actually be false, should be punished with jail time. Women are always given a break they don't deserve in this regard. The usual retort that this would have "chilling effects" on the willingness of women to report sexual assault is complete BS. Why? Because failing to prove your case is distinct from being a proven liar. If it really did happen, then you should have no fear that it'd be possible to prove your claims are false, even if you don't have sufficient evidence to convict the perp.
I don't disagree with you. I feel if women had an actual case, bring it at the time don't wait aimed ten years where the statute of limitations are off. There is only aim here, and that is fir a civil suit. However, be careful what you ask for. Things may come out that might nott be so pleasant on the accusers side. Just ask Jian Gomeshi.
shareI don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry to distance themselves from him after these allegations surfaced. Can't they at least wait until an investigation takes place? This is terribly wrong and dangerous.
shareThat's happening all throughout artistic communities. The atmosphere of fear is no doubt encouraging people to rat out their co-workers to protect themselves. Those making the allegations see a potential lucrative payoff.
shareThe real crime is that this show is still in the air. Who’s watching it? Old, overweight women who wish they were represented more in action shows?
share