- The armorer not ensuring gun empty
- Armorer not educating baldwin on the specifics of hammer on the antique pistol
- Baldwin not ensuring gun empty
- Baldwin pointing gun at people while practising draw
- Live rounds being on the set in the first place
- other
Whilst people argue back and forth about whose responsibility 'this' was, or 'that' was, the last one of the five you list is the one that
no-one will disagree with. 'Live rounds being on the set in the first place'. No matter who is ultimately found to be at fault with regard to subsequent procedure, without those rounds being there it could not have happened.
Why were there even live rounds on set to begin with? That's probably the biggest fuck up in all of this.
But regardless, if the armorer had done his or her job correctly, then none of this would have happened. It was their sole responsibility to inspect all the weapons and ensure their safety to use and they failed.
"live rounds on set to begin with"
Absolutely , thjat was the point i was making with the thread mainly.
many fuckups, but thats the biggest AND easiest avoided.
there are so many mistakes happening......
hannah sued seth kenney the guy supplying the ammo. if i remember correctly watching her police interview. im pretty sure hannah said it was a brand new box of dummy rounds that she loaded, so its possible the live rounds were mixed and labeled dummy from the supplier. https://variety.com/2022/film/news/hannah-gutierrez-reed-seth-kenney-rust-ammunition-1235152905/
hannah was hired for 2 jobs. her and Gabrielle Pickle got into an argument. hannah was saying she needed more time as armorer instead of assisting props.
Lane Luper, camera assistant, informed producers "So far there have been 2 accidental weapons discharges and 1 accidental SFX explosives that have gone off around the crew between takes… To be clear there are NO safety meetings these days,” Lane quit the day before the fatal shooting saying production shouldve been stopped for safety investigations.
" live rounds were mixed and labeled dummy "
omfg! thats a new twist.
Sure sounds like Hannah (the two jobbed armourer?) stretching for an excuse.
Sadly theres probably no way to prove it now.
You'd think there would be incredibly stringent procedures in place to make sure that didnt happen , orhterwise surely thered be a lot more stories like these.
Hannah's not that smart, really, her interview was bad for her. she was open, honest, and naive. answering questions i didnt think she should answer. her lawyer was worse. with his quips of something like "wow, thats weird that a bullet got there" instead of "stfu, we're done here", lol. not to mention her prints are on 1 of the shell casings.
the text messages show hannah was the one interested in safety:
“It has been brought to my attention that you are focusing far more on Armor and not supporting props as needed.” Gabrielle Pickle Wrote
“Since we’ve started, I’ve had a lot of days where my job should only be to focus on the guns and everyone’s safety,” Gutierrez Reed wrote
it was a gun heavy production. for example, every gun needed to be cleaned after dropped to the ground. hannah wasnt even in the church during the shooting due to covid restrictions. but, i think a more experienced armorer would've caught the mixed in live rounds.
i think management needs some blame too. obviously hannahs toast. but they shouldve shut down after the 3 (2 back to back from the stuntman and 1 prop master shot her foot) negligent discharges and had investigations into them.
The armorer fucked up, but it was not her sole responsibility. Basic gun safety is that no matter who hands you a gun and what they tell you, you always check it yourself. If Baldwin had done that, nobody would be dead or injured. If that's not normal protocol on movie sets, then movie sets are not following responsible gun safety and they need to change the way they operate.
shareThose are just "common sense" rules, not actual legal requirements for official gun safety. The armorer is there for a reason
shareI think Alec has part of the blame, but no because he didn't check the firearm. That's just ridiculous. You're telling me all the actors checked the belt fed machine guns in Black Hawk down, or the each magazine for their long guns? For every war movie, for that matter? Or the Matrix? No. Of course they didn't. Just like Daniel Craig doesn't check the breaks for the sports cars in 007.
Alec is liable because he has an exec. producer title, and that means some, if not all, of the safety onset falls into his realm of responsibility, which also would include hiring an inexperienced armor like Hannah.
1 and 5. Both are the job of the armorer.
share"armorer not ensuring gun empty" is my pick.
share3
Baldwin not taking 2 seconds to open the chamber to clear the weapon.
This is where the Buck stops people, if someone hands you a gun, whether it’s your husband, wife, WWII Great Grand Pa, or even Joe Rogan, you clear the damn gun.
If everyone did this then ALL negligent discharges along with senseless killings related to such would miraculously cease.
To expand a bit, the reason the Buck stops with Baldwin or all of us for that matter, is to account for human error. Yes live rounds shouldn’t have been on set, yes the armorer should have educated Baldwin (turns out she tried and Baldwin blew her off), Yes the Armorer should have inspected the gun, but one thing that is absolutely certain in all of life’s process’, is human error will ALWAYS be a part of the equation. In many cases human error can be completely removed from potential outcomes by the last person in the chain of events or throughout for that matter, taking a brief and often times effortless moment to go above and beyond their required purpose in said chain of events.
The producers deciding that a gun safe and a full-time armorer were unnecessary expenses, that's what. All the resulting fuckups and tragedies started with the fact that there was no place to secure the guns, and nobody to watch the guns full-time. That's what led to some assholes bringing live rounds to the set, taking the gun because they wanted to play with it, and putting it back with a live round still in. Yes, the armorer and AD who were supposed to check the gun failed to do their jobs properly, and Baldwin failed to handle the gun safely during the rehearsal, but they didn't create the problem - the person who decided that the set didn't need gun safety protocols did.
That would have been a producer, and Baldwin is one of the film's producers. Frankly, I'd like the see all the film's producers put on trial as accessories to manslaughter, along with whoever brought the live bullets to the set and took the Colt .45 to play with (we've never found out who, BTW). But it will probably be the armorer and the AD who face more criminal charges and life as unemployables, because they can't afford the kind of lawyers who'd frighten a DA away from filing charges.
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