MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > I will come out and admit that...

I will come out and admit that...


... in life overall, I don't even KNOW much or even anything about say stuff like feminism, patriarchy, "toxic" or even otherwise MASCULINITY, various hashtags like MeToo AND, and its NOT a political part alone, what exactly do stuff like left wing and right wing mean, liberal and conservative and whatnot etc.

Even on those seemingly "complex" issues besides other ones having a well known ALREADY position like "its bad don't do it" etc and law attached to it (with people often already just automatically agreeing about it all without any further wonderings, whether for personal or objective reasons) I just want to look at it is simple good and bad ways or right and wrong. Point is, yeah, I know it all exists and operates in that way, but I kinda feel like looking at it all without those complicated modern or otherwise references, and is that alright?

Plus, for all THOSE talks, sometimes we might forget certain other factors here and there. And we also wonder, are certain movements THEMSELVES bad in and of themselves? Cheers. Hint - they don't have labels coming out of the sky or spelled out in neon letterings.

And plus, does all of it really matter and mean anything really? And even if it does, can one choose not to give it importance and come out with their popularity, dignity and whatever positive left in their souls intact and not become any kind of "evil villain", lol? Cheers.

Do you feel in any similar ways?

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OK, no opinions? What do I do, leave it be, kill myself (lol, of course I didn't mean for real, haha), feel ashamed, seek ways to improve and do you have these traits and lack of knowledge too, cheers.

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Even worse - do I continue to pester various online community forums with long messages about all of this including this site repetitively for years on end? (Lol even more so.)

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If I pester, I become PEST, haha... :)

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Put the pipe down.

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I AM PRETTY SURE THEMAN IS TOMMY WISEAU.

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Hee hee hee, wish he would share.

Signed, million man.

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Believe it or not, I never really smoked or did drugs in my entire life, seriously. )

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Pick the pipe up!! 🤷‍♂️

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they are causes created by cultural marxists who want to create as much tension and hate as posible and then later take advantage of it.

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FUCK OFF

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hahahahahahaha, i love how angry you people get!

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NOT ANGRY...BUT YOUR POLITICAL COMMENTS NEED TO FUCK OFF TO POLITICS...THAT IS WHERE WE KEEP THE SHIT MONSTERS.

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They are not Marxists. They have bastardized Marxism. Marxism is the best analysis and critique of capitalism, and simply points out that capitalism has built-in contradictions and as a result functions in such a way that it cannibalizes itself, and causes all sorts of societal problems. It divides the people into classes which have different interests, and the working class, which actually does all the work of society, is being exploited and gets very little benefit from their labor, while the ruling class leeches of them like parasites.
Marxism explains the relationship, antagonisms, and power dynamics between the classes.

"cultural Marxism" is a misnomer. It is not Marxism. It takes some of Marx's ideas, distorts them, and tries to apply them in a way that they weren't designed for. This misapplication of Marxian analysis naturally produced absurd ideologies such as post modernism. And while post modernism did have a few interesting ideas — it is for the most part a retarded and destructive ideology.

"Cultural Marxism" is just identity politics based on post modern ideology.
Post modernism is incompatible with Marxism. Marxism is about class and materialism, not about identity and your subjective experience.
Genuine Marxists are against wokeness and are trying to purge this cancer from our community.

So please stop blaming Marx and Marxist ideology for the cancer that is the wokerati. Instead, help us purge this plague from society.

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Cool

What’s your favourite movie?

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1. Shawshank Redemption (1994)
2. Kill Bill (2003/4)
3. Heat (1995)

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does "post modern" actually mean anything?
or is it just extra words chucked in to make something sound more intellectual?


I ask because in a poitical discussion like that even plain as day words like "marxist" mean very diffferent things to pretty much ecveryon in the conversation using them.
A "marxist" to gooseBoy means anyone who doesent want trump on the throne and all mexicans behind a wall.

A marxist to a democrat voter might mean someone whose views are too far left "state runs all, Eveyone should get paid the same" etc .

in light of these variations on even simple words ,
words with vague or pretty much none existent definitions ( like 'post modern') really dont help clarify anyones ponits.

.... or maybe im just not articulate / educated enough .

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Post-modern has a specific meaning in various fields, but yes, sometimes it's just extra words just chucked in.

Like the phrase "cultural marxism" itself is nonsense that a pseudo-intellectuals just keep repeating.

That poster above though, at a glance, seems to know what he's talking about. I don't fully agree with everything they said, on the mark.

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You are correct, these terms are almost always misused, and the meaning differs depending on who is using it. That is why I tried to define specifically what Marxism means. I gave a pretty detailed explanation of Marxism, but a TL:DR version would be that it is simply a critique and analysis of capitalism and the idea that we can do better than capitalism. So a Marxist is simply someone who wants to replace capitalism with a better system. That system is usually socialism or communism, however, it doesn't need to be either of those. It could be any post capitalist system, as long as it is a system that abolishes the exploitation of the worker; abolishes the employer/employee relationship.

As for Post Modernism, it is a little bit trickier. The simple answer is that it is a critique of modernism. There were many critics of modernism in the late 20th century, and so their ideology would be post modern. However, because there were many different philosophers, with many different approaches to critiquing modernism, trying to pin down what post modernism is can be tricky since it is an umbrella term for a constellation of ideas. This makes the term kind of nebulous.
Personally, when I think of "genuine" post modernism, I think of philosophers like Michel Foucault (although he himself rejected this term) and Jacques Derrida (who also tried to distance him self from this term). Given that both of the most famous post modernists rejected post modernism, gives you an idea of why this becomes so confusing.
Sometimes I also use "post modern" in a more colloquial, less technical sense, to refer to those academics that sound like they are talking gibberish, and have absurd ideas like "Mathematics is Postcultural material theory rooted in white supremacy". I made that sentence up, but if you look at some of the bullshit gibberish that comes out of racial/gender studies departments, it looks not that de-similar than the bullshit I just pulled out of my ass.

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You're an adult, you can approach conversation and education in any way you see fit. There's no rule book, social experience will tell you whether you should learn about these things or not based on how much you enjoy certain topic and the kind of people you wish to continuously converse with. And asking questions always goes a long way when you're interested but lacking some basic points.

However, I find it's best going into any conversation, to start from a place of knowledge and empathy rather than purposeful ignorance, whether you choose to apply that knowledge to the conversation at hand or not. That way, no one will have to take up the task over and over again of explaining something to you, when that info is readily available at your fingertips, and essentially do more work than conversing. It's kind of a courtesy, to both yourself and the person you're speaking with. That would be the only time you'd be classed as a "villain" - if you're entering into a discussion about a topic you have no understanding of and, rather than chatting like everyone else there, are intruding. Like I said earlier, asking questions is fine, but if you're halting conversation because you can't keep up, that's kinda unfair to those who're having a good time chatting about stuff they enjoy chatting about.

Besides, learning is fun. I can get lost in looking up the etymology of words.

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The term "feminism" has been badly misinterpreted for decades. In fact, I'm angry at how badly it's been twisted in the past 50 years, to be fair. I wrote about it on Quora, when someone asked a question about whether feminism was destroying modern society or not. My answer covered the idea that the original goal of feminism was to push for women being treated equally in society, and not to be seen as the property of their husbands or other men. They wanted to have the freedom to work the jobs they wanted, to keep their jobs even when married, and to have control over whether they had children or not. In fact, the earliest feminists were pro-life if you can believe that.

The problem was, the movement was hijacked in the 60s and 70s by vengeful misandrists that wanted far more than what feminism originally stood for: power over others and to get revenge on all the men who wronged them. That's when the feminist movement turned toxic, and the loudest elements of that part of feminism still stink up modern society today.

One way you can tell a genuine feminist is to look at their actions, vs. what they say out loud. If those two things don't match up, such as a woman claiming to have worked her way up the ladder in her career through her own hard work, but then you find out she slept her way to the top and used men to get up there, she isn't a true feminist. She's a disgusting hypocrite, who bashes men out of one side of her mouth and then whines about why nobody will sleep with her out of the other.

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But then...

What do you think about the fact that I MYSELF don't have a full knowledge of ALL those things, which for one, in today's digital age particularly in America and Europe where English is THE first language, albeit not exclusively, such topics are very popular?

Is the fact that I don't really have much knowledge or even a DIRECT opinion on it all saying something about my under-education and low intelligence or even low MORAL values if at all?

Or does it all not matter?

Not to take you or anyone ELSE for that matter out of their comfort zone based on the popularity of established traditions and status quo surrounding various movements etc, but THIS was the main gist of it all, same or similar with stuff like conservative versus liberal movements and approaches, talks of masculinity and patriarchy etc as opposed to simple right and wrong, good and bad etc views, as well as the fact that even with them in mind, as well as personal outrages on the order of how something is "sh!t or sh!tty" or "f*cked up" or whatever (yeah, we see a lot of that too, no matter if its right, wrong or just in and of itself, however "distasteful" it MAY be) or how "ashamed" one must be or feel etc and where I or others stand who are not all that familiar with it all, but are decent and normal folks at heart.

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Not having a full set of knowledge on a subject is the first step to enlightening yourself. You're obviously curious about it, so why not go learn more with research? There's no shame in being a beginner.

I still think doing research will help you understand the subjects that are on your mind. Granted, all knowledge comes with a double-edge like a sword, but it's worth helping you to understand better if you can see multiple perspectives on it. One area that could help you in your research is studying the history of the subject you're interested in. Seeing how it affected people in the past, and how it changed over time will give you a better understanding of it.

I know it sounds old-fashioned, but possibly going to a physical library and looking up older, physical books on the subject you're curious about wouldn't hurt either. You would get a better idea of how people in the past viewed things like feminism, vs. the people of today.

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