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Rizdek's Replies
Where does it say that proverb is aimed at parents? I'll wait for your scriptures proving that.
I don't know what you're trying to show with your last paragraph. You say those programs didn't exist...I don't know what programs existed or didn't exist, but you say these programs (presumably programs to teach people respect for authority and respect for others) didn't exist and then turn around and bemoan the 60s where lack of respect, lack of civility, lack of honor became the norm. What do you think the 60s were evidence of...if not lack of proper upbringing/training that these programs may be trying to address.
What is the reality? That cops will renege on their oaths when their actions are scrutinized? If you say so.
The Mueller investigation was destined to be flawed...from the very beginning. Rosenstein initiated it and designed it to be flawed. No matter what Mueller discovered, it could never be useful because of the flaws in how Rosenstein started it.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/04/russia-investigation-rod-rosenstein-memo-mueller-probe-limits/
I contend that was intentional on Rosenstein's part. He was not a traitor to Trump, he was being shrewd. The Republicans 'in the know' KNEW of the flaws and how those flaws would make the investigation all but useless against Trump and his campaign. And THAT is why Trump never fired Rosenstein and Sessions never stopped it, Trump et al were 'let in on' the secret that the investigation would nab a few small time crooks who, if he wanted to, Trump could simply pardon and was otherwise a sham investigation...a facade to occupy the press and the Dems even though it was going no where.
What was completely predictable? The uptick in crime began before the vote.
Why is there minimal police presence? The budget is essentially the same as before the vote and is still larger than last years budget. Again, I ask and hate to think it, but are the police just reneging on their oaths...pretending to be busy...lying...breaking the law and endangering citizens in the process? That sounds like what you are accusing the peaceful protesters of doing. Are the cops just 'peaceful protesters' now...peacefully deciding not to respond because their feelings are hurt? And folks complain that some football players take a knee, which hurts no one and now you're defending cops who renege and fail to uphold their oaths because of what might happen.
I read it, but obviously you hadn't. At least that's what your posts indicated. Because if you had read it, you'd have been able to answer my question of WHAT had happened since the vote. I asked it several times and you had not been able to answer it...dodging and weaving, side-stepping, whinging and whining, all the time. LOL The answer which I already knew, but you were reluctant to admit was...essentially NOTHING had been done except $1 million was transferred to other programs. Since your' math skills are probably as limited as your reasoning skills, I'll work that out for you...$1 million out of $193 million is about 1/2 a percent. or 0.005 of the budget. SO...NOW TELL ME, why is the crime rate going up...and why had ibeen going up before the vote. And this $193 million was $10 million more than last year's budget or a 5.5% increase. So...what did the police DO with that 5.5% increase? Hire hookers?
Your short posts are because you have a short attention span and limited vocabulary...don't blame someone else. Blaming others is Trump's forte, you do it ill. You're the friggin dense dolt.
The dissatisfaction with the police did not START with some council vote...it was already occurring on the streets.
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/06/20/minneapolis-police-department-reports-increased-hostility-toward-officers/
So the council vote was in response to that dissatisfaction voiced BY THE PEOPLE ON THE STREET.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-city-council-alarmed-by-surge-in-crime-months-after-voting-to-defund-the-police
suggests the problem had been going on LONG before the June vote...even Fox news knows it.
So, out of ~900 police, 200 HAVE APPLIED to leave...but how many have actually left? Is the inability to respond really based on lack of man power, or are you guys right...the cops are actually being stubborn?
If so...do you think the police are reneging on their promises, going back on their oaths, and simply refusing to go when called? Are they staging 'sick outs,' or saying they have PTSD to 'get even' with a perceived injustice?
Have they been unable to refill the positions left vacant? They still have the money.
So...people are just mad at the vote even though essentially nothing has happened yet?
After all, it seems the council, whether rightly or wrongly, is simply re-imagining how LE could work. EG, where I live we don't even have police. We have sheriffs and it works just fine. Having a community based program that includes LE doesn't mean NO law enforcement.
Yes, $1 million....JUST $1 million out of $193 million shifted to augment other programs. And this years budget of $193 million was a $10 million INCrEASE from last year...and STILL the crime went up. So, clearly simply increasing the budget didn't create the environment of reducing crime, did it? What's wrong with trying to find ways to prevent crime vs wait 'til it happened?
This site
https://evidencebasedprograms.org/policy_area/crime-violence-prevention/
presents some programs that have been tested and some have been shown to reduce crime. Not everything in society is just waiting until someone commits a crime THEN dealing with it. In fact I dare say that the MOST effective efforts involve preventing crime and raising kids to NOT want to commit crime rather than wait 'til they are adults then just arrest offenders. Isn't that what good parenting is all about?
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it."
Yep...and I don't agree with that council president. Do you? Are the cops actually intentionally not enforcing the law...refusing to make arrests? Do you imagine the police are actually breaking the law and failing to honor their oaths?
The police chief...who I believe...said that wasn't the case.
But regardless, that would have nothing to do with and would not have caused the increased crime wave and so the OP was being stupid by acting as if the crime wave was somehow inevitable due the vote. The police budget was increased by $10 million this year (2020) to $193 million and just in July, the council voted to transfer $1 million to other programs...JUST a measly $1 million. And THAT is supposed to have suddenly caused a crime wave?
Hillary blundered badly and paid the price. Will Trump pay the price for his off-handed remarks. I think not. His fans are inured to his way of talking. In fact, I think the whole country is pretty numb to his rhetoric.
These baboons started a thread without thinking it through. If the increase in crime was linked to defunding police, we'd see it happening AFTER the money was cut, after cops were fired/laid off, after equipment was sold off, after they got rid of vehicles, etc. But it's not. Nothing's changed EXCEPT for a council vote. Whether it's true or not, these posters have pretty much admitted that they think cops WOULD slowdown their response time, would 'refuse to act,' would refuse to arrest people, would refuse to uphold their oath, etc. Which is essentially saying the cops would break the law because of some injustice. And this breaking of the law would actually endanger people and property. So in a way, according to these posters, the cops would be doing essentially the same thing the rioters are doing...breaking the law,endangering lives and property for some perceived injustice. I don't agree with these posters that this crime wave is due to anything the cops are doing or refusing to do...but that's what the posters who are supposedly defending the police seem to be saying.
Why can't people count on cops? You keep saying this then have to worm your way out to keep from admitting cops who are still on the job, still getting paid, but are reneging and not living up to the oath they took. To hear you, it seems they're copping out.
Then why'd you ask this asinine question? "If the crime wave is happening prior to the lay offs, why would it diminish when there are less cops on the street, pray tell?" Was it because you spaced out with your fingers of the keyboard? LOL
The thread...noob, is about this...since your memory seems short.
"Minneapolis City Council alarmed by surge in crime months after voting to defund the police How F-ing stupid do they have to be not to know what would happen when they defunded the police? "
And yet you can't explain how the crime wave is related to the council's vote to defund. In fact squat-thrust, you are admitting that the crime wave has all to do with incompetent policing and perhaps lack of enforcement...which...has zero to do with reduced POLICE FUNDING which hasn't even taken effect yet.
Truth be told, you've embarrassed yourself by suggesting the cops were wilfully reneging on their oath to uphold the law and are trying to backpedal. You said,
"Even if the police hasn't been defunded yet, the vote to defunded has already caused law enforcement to change in Minneapolis. If DAs won't prosecute pillagers, then why should cops risk their lives to arrest them? If their tactics are going to be scrutinized and their own DA and mayor won't even give them the benefit of the doubt, then why should they put themselves in harms way?
So tell me. What do you think the Police Chief is telling his officers? What's the Police union in Minneapolis saying? Do you really think cops are going to go out of their way in to protect others and property, when their city has turned their backs against them? How naive are you to think that everything would stay the same only until actual budget cuts occur? "
So...are the police not doing their jobs? Is it their job to decide who to arrest and what calls to answer based on what the DA might do?
With the skill you have developed back pedalling and dodging questions, you should join the circus...for morons.
What is completely predictable? That the cops would engage in work slowdown because of the council's vote? Or that there would be a crime wave notwithstanding the fact that nothing has actually been implemented as far as what the council voted.
So what if the council's vote was essentially a no confidence vote? It doesn't matter why they took an oath...they took an oath to uphold the law. So...since you seem to understand things so clearly, (cough cough) explain what exactly are the police doing differently now than they were doing before the vote and why?
What common sense? You've made no sense since you've been farting out posts. I never said the crime wave would stop if there were fewer cops. Point to where I said or implied that. You seem to resolutely avoid answering the question. Why is there a crime wave before anything relative to the June vote by the council has been implemented?
Yes, exactly, who knows manure for brains, WHY is there a crime wave if no cops have been laid off and no equipment has been removed from the force.
So....what you've described had nothing to do with 'defunding.'
From what you've described, it's what I said..the cops are deciding to not do their jobs out of spite? As if dereliction of duty and going back on their oath is ok because they got their feeling hurt.
Why shouldn't cops actions be scrutinized?
And they should put themselves in harms way because they took an oath.
I wasn't sure the council made the right decision, but if police force is made up of people who take their commitments so casually, maybe they do need to restructure and hire new people with better character.
I don't know what the police chief is telling his cops and what the union is saying. What do you think they're saying? Something about a work slowdown? Something about we'll show them how belligerent we can be? Something about not obeying orders because of what might happen?
How do you think the criminal element found out that the cops were going to slow down...if they did? Because cops deciding NOT to answer calls doesn't mean there should be MORE calls. Do you think the union is in cahoots with some criminal element and is, what, extorting?
Who knows, but the question still stands...why is the crime wave happening now?
Exactly how much has actually happened in the process to disband police and replace them with a community-based system of public safety since that decision a few months ago? Aren't they still operating under the budget that was in place before the council voted? IOW, despite the lack of wisdom in disbanding police, has the uptick in crime coincided with any actual changes to the police force brought on by the council's vote? How many police have been laid off DUE TO the council's decision? How much money has actually been removed from the budget? How much equipment has been discarded/sold? What programs have been discontinued?
Or is this uptick in crime due to, say, criminals simply renewing efforts thinking the time is right or is it normally law abiding citizens frustrated by the council's decision and launching a crime wave to 'show them' or is it due to a voluntary slowdown by police who are still on the job and being paid and/or due to some effort by 911 workers to 'slow down' the response time as a form of protest?
It's just not as much fun trying to discuss movies when there aren't 'by movie' sections. It's hard to find other's who want to talk about a given movie. It's the same over at IMDB2...it's just not the same.