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MAGolding's Replies
The excuse to justify everything. Just about every piece of ground has been stolen at least once, so you don't have to pay for any land. Except that you are likely to pay with your life if the law catches you.
Continued.
Perhaps fictional Deadwood could be close to Walden, and Dry Gulch southeast of that. The stage route could pass through relatively flat land for a while and enter the mountains near Gould. It could follow Colorado-14 through Willey Lumber Camp, Spencer Heights, Kinikinik, Rustic, Stove Praine Landing, and exit the mountains near La Porte, then go through Fort Collins and Arrowhead and turn north on I-25 to Cheyenne. It would pass through some hills near the Colorado-Wyoming border near Cheyenne.
I note that the Indian Peaks Wilderness where some scenes in Stagecoach (1966) were filmed is about twenty to sixty miles south of those two selected routes through the mountains in Colorado. The Caribou Country Club Ranch in Nederland, Colorado, where other scenes were filmed, seems to be a little south of the Indian Peaks Wilderness.
I have to wonder how much or how little difference 20 to 60 miles distance makes in the type of scenery in the mountain in Colorado. How much would a reasonable route through the mountains resemble the scenery in the movie?
If both the Deadwood and the Cheyenne in Stagecoach (1966) are fictional, then they would have to be somewhere with flattish lands and high mountains between them, and within the area that the Cheyenne Indians lived in and/or raided and places would be named after them, and somewhere where Sioux under Crazy Horse could attack.
Continued.
Or possibly your suggestion that the movie's Deadwood and/or Cheyenne might be different from the famous Deadwood, South Dakota and Cheyenne, Wyoming, is correct.
The snow on the ground in some scenes in Dry Fork indicates that it was more likely to be in the northern plains than the southern planes.
There are several Deadwoods in California, Deadwood, Oregon, Deadwood Texas, and Deadwood Draw, Nebraska. Deadwood Draw was near Sidney, Nebraska, and was part of the route from Sidney, a station on the Union Pacific Railroad, to the Black Hills, including Deadwood. So I guess stages from Sidney might pass through Deadwood Draw for several years on the way to the Black Hills.
But Cheyenne, Wyoming is also a station on the Union Pacific railroad so nobody would ever take a stage from Deadwood Draw to Cheyenne, Wyoming.
If your suggestion that the stage travels through high mountains in Colorado is correct, Cheyenne, Wyoming could still be the destination. Dry Fork could be about where Coalmont, Colorado is, which is 130.3 miles from Cheyenne via Wyoming-230 East and I-80 East. The route travels along flattish land from Coalmont through Walden and Cowdrey, and then through the Medicine Bow Mountains through Wyocolo and Foxpark to Woods Landing-Jelm, then on Wyoming-230 East northeast through flatter ground to to Laramie, Wyoming (which is not near Fort Laramie) and then by I-80 and/or Wyoming-210 through more hills to Cheyenne.
I note that Denver is east of the mountains and almost due south of Cheyenne on I-25. If a fictional Deadwood, Colorado, was east of the mountains and anywhere near Denver the stage would be called the Denver to Cheyenne Stage. And that would mean that the route wouldn't cross the mountains.
Continued.
My first guess might be that the mountains would be the famous Imaginary Range that zigzags all over the west, from place to place that filmmakers find it convenient to put mountains.
I just used an online program to find the travel distance between Deadwood, South Dakota and Cheyenne, Wyoming. It is 273.8 miles by US-85 South, or 281.2 miles by US-85 South and I-25 South, or 350.2 miles by I-90 West, Wyoming-59 South, and I-25 South.
I-25 goes miles to the west of US-85, and closer to a range of mountains or hills in southeastern Wyoming. But the stage would have to go even west of I-25 to go though them. Fortunately Deadwood is near the northern edge of the Black Hills so even if Dry Fork is southwest of Deadwood the stage could go through part of the Black Hills. But that is pretty far from Cheyenne.
US-85 seems to curve east around a line of hills or something west of La Grange, maybe in the movie the stage line goes straighter through the hills for more dramatic scenery. La Grange, Wyoming is 57.3 miles from Cheyenne by US-85, so that would put the passing through the mountains at closer to the right time in the story, though the moviemakers would probably still be "making mountains out of molehills".
Then Dry Fork could be somewhere near Torrington or Lingle, places that are close to Fort Laramie where Captain Mallory could be stationed.
Or Dry Fork could be somewhere west of Fort Laramie, possibly near Guernsey, or farther west where US-26 meets I-25. Then the route south from there along what is now I-25 passes close to hills. I-25 bends east to avoid hills or mountains, and maybe in the movie the stage route bent west to take a pass through them. Probably the movie makers would also be "making mountains out of molehills" there.
Continued.
My last name is Golding, and apparently the most numerous Golding families are those from England, where the names has been used for many centuries. There are also less numerous Golding families from Ireland whose name is an English version of a Gaelic name, and apparently Jewish Goldings from Kuldiga in Latvia which used to be named Goldingen. I believe there is also a Goldingen in Switzerland.
I have no idea where my Golding ancestors came from.
08-26-2018.
I just watched the 2nd half of "The Shadow War!" again today, and one of the boys asked Magica what the "lunar eclipse" had to do with her plan, so it was definitely a lunar eclipse.
Continued
If I was in charge of Duck Tales (2017) the strange appearance of the Moon during the eclipse would be due to mass activity - commercial, industrial, scientific, or military - by Earth people or aliens on the Moon for some plot important purpose.
Searching for solar eclipses that might be the right ones, I found that there was no solar eclipse visible in the USA during the entire period of 2000 to 2111 that was 15 years after a total or even annular solar eclipse visible from Mount Vesuvius. In fact there were no total or even annular solar eclipses visible from Mount Vesuvius during the period from 1995 to 2195, the central paths of the nearest eclipses missed Mount Vesuvius by hundreds of miles, leaving only partial solar eclipses visible at Mount Vesuvius, which don't fit the images in "The Shadow War!".
Thus I suppose that the eclipse in the flashback to Mount Vesuvius was also a lunar eclipse, and the strange details in that flashback could also due to massive activity on the Moon 15 years before "The Shadow War!". They would be if I was in charge of the show.
So if the two eclipses are eclipses of the Moon, it is possible that an eclipse of the Moon visible from Mount Vesuvius might be found sometime in the period of about 1995 to 2195 that is fifteen years before an eclipse of the Moon visible during April or May sometime in the period of about 2010 to 2108 that happens about sunset as seen from Duckburg, which should be somewhere on the coasts of the United States.
In my thread: "How Old are Huey, Dewey, and Louie in Duck Tales (2017)?" I deduce that the boys hatched sometime in the period of April 15 to April 22, that the first season of Duck Tales (2017) happens between about October of one year to about April or May of the next year, and that Huey, Dewey, and Louie should be about nine years and six months old in "Woo-oo!" and about ten years and a few weeks old in "The Shadow War!".
If, as deduced in my first post above, Huey, Dewey, and Louie were born in a year between 2000 and 2099, and if they were aged nine years and six months to ten years and ten years and a few weeks old in the first season of Duck Tales (2017) as deduced in "How Old are Huey, Dewey, and Louie in Duck Tales (2017)?", the first season of Duck Tales (2017) should happen sometime between 2009 to 2010 and 2108 to 2109.
I just re watched the first part of "The Shadow War!" and looked carefully at the orb in the sky as the eclipse progressed. The orb seemed to be mottled and spotted, unlike the blindingly bright Sun, but like the Moon with craters and dark maria. And in one scene there seemed to be a circle on the orb with lines coming out of that circle, like a crater with rays, such as Tycho, for example. So it looks like the object being eclipsed is the Moon, being covered by the Earth's shadow.
And the plot synopsis of "The Shadow War!" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckTales_(2017_TV_series) says that Magica is "empowered by a lunar eclipse".
But when the orb is fully covered it turns black like an eclipsed Sun instead of reddish like the eclipsed Moon usually does, and there seems to be a very thin ring of light around the edge of the orb and a few spikes of light pointing out from the black orb.
These aspects seem more like a solar eclipse, making me wonder how much the animators knew about eclipses.
to be continued
08-25-2018
In my post in my thread "How Old are Huey, Dewey, and Louie in Duck Tales (2017)?" I show that "McMystery at McDuck Manor", where Scrooge's birthday is celebrated, is probably after "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest!" which happens about Christmas, and also probably before the birthday of Huey, Dewey, and Louie which should be about April 15 to 22.
Therefore Scrooge's birth date in Duck Tales (2017) should be sometime between about January 1, 1867 and April 22, 1867.
Since my calculations indicate that the first season of Duck Tales (2017) should be sometime between 2009-2010 and 2108-2109, Scrooge should turn between 143 and 242 in "McMystery at McDuck Manor".
According to the writers of the radio show, which started years earlier, Tonto has a better meaning in an Indian language, maybe Pottawatomie if I spelled it correctly.
And there actually were a group of Apaches and Yavapais called the Tontos by the Spanish, because they always acted dumb when Spanish soldiers came around to ask about stolen livestock.
Well if Indians were important enough some hotels would take them as guests.
I remember reading in an online book a few years ago, in 1877 a delegation of Sioux chiefs came to Washington, DC to met the new President.
Remember, in those days there was strong rivalry between the US Army and the Indian Bureau, part of the Department of the Interior, for control over relations with Indians, so to many army officers whoever was the Secretary of the Interior at the time was the archenemy of the army.
Anyway, someone had selected a new hotel for the Sioux delegation to stay at, and some of the chiefs, maybe Spotted Tail or Red Cloud, complained to General Crook that they preferred the hotel they were used to staying in during previous visits, and General Crook quickly went to see Carl Schurtz, Secretary of the Interior, and they quickly arranged to have the chiefs transferred to the hotel they preferred.
If the episodes happen in production order they would be:
101-2) "Woo-oo!", 103) "Daytrip of Doom!", 104) "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest", 105) "The Great Dime Chase!", 106) "The Beagle Birthday Massacre!", 107 "The House of the Lucky Gander!", 108) "The infernal Internship of Mark Beaks!", 109) "The Living Mummies of Toth-Ra!", 110) "Terror of the Terra-firmians!", 111) "McMystery at McDuck Manor!", 112) "The Spear of Selene!", 113) "The Missing Links of Moorshire!", 114) "Beware the B.U.D.D.Y. System!", 115) "Day of the Only Child!", 116)"Jaw$!", 117)"The Golden Lagoon of White Agony Plains!", 118) "From the Confidential Case Files of Agent 22!", 119) "Sky Pirates...In the Sky!", 120) "The Other Bin of Scrooge McDuck!", 121) "Who is Gizmoduck?!", 122) "The Secret(s) of Castle McDuck!", 123) "The Last Crash of the Sunchaser!", 124-125) "The Shadow War!".
If the episodes are evenly spaced and "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest" happens sometime in the period of December 18 to 31, "Woo-oo!" about 2/22, or 0.090909, of 6 months before, should happen about 0.54 months earlier and about early December, and "The Shadow War!", about 20/22, or 0.909, of 6 months later, should happen about 5.4545 months later, or about early June of the next year.
So "The Shadow War!" might happen about the middle of April to early June, and thus the eclipse in that episode should be a total solar eclipse visible in some part of the USA between April and June in some year between 2009 to 2111 and apparently about 15 years after a total solar eclipse visible at Mount Vesuvius in Italy sometime between about 1993 and 2097. I don't know if there is any pair of eclipses in the period 1993 to 2111 that fit those requirements.
Of course, maybe eclipses happen at different dates in the fictional universe of Duck Tales (2017).
PS I can't help wonder if it is just a coincidence or if the writers planned it so that there would be indications that "The Shadow War!" could happen in April, May, or June?
So in broadcast order the episodes seem to be:
1) "Woo-oo!", 2) "Daytrip of Doom!", 3) "The Great Dime Chase!", 4) "The Beagle Birthday Massacre!", 5) "Terror of the Terra-firmians!", 6) "The House of the Lucky Gander!", 7) "The infernal Internship of Mark Beaks!", 8) "The Living Mummies of Toth-Ra!", 9) "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest", 10) "The Spear of Selene!", 11) "Beware the B.U.D.D.Y. System!", 12) "The Missing Links of Moorshire!", 13) "McMystery at McDuck Manor!", 14) "Jaw$!", 15) "The Golden Lagoon of White Agony Plains!", 16) "Day of the Only Child!", 17) "From the Confidential Case Files of Agent 22!", 18) Who is Gizmoduck?!", 19) "The Other Bin of Scrooge McDuck!", 20) "Sky Pirates...In the Sky!", 21) The Secret(s) of Castle McDuck!", 22) "The Last Crash of the Sunchaser!", 23) "The Shadow War!".
If the episodes happen at regular intervals, and if "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest" happens sometime between December 18 and December 31, "Woo-oo!" should happen about 8/22, or 0.3636, of 6 months before that, or about 2.1818 months, and thus abut the middle of October, while "The Shadow War" should happen about 14/22, or 0.6363, times 6 months, after "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest", and thus roughly about 3.8 months later, and about the middle of April in the next year.
When writing my first post I forgot that in "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest!" which was apparently the fourth episode produced in the first season out of 25, and the 9th episode broadcast, on December 2, 2017, the trip to Mount Neverrest is made during the Christmas season, and thus sometime about December.
Thus the first episode "Woo-oo!" and the second to last episode "The Last Crash of the Sunchaser!", which happen about 6 months apart, have a restricted range of possible dates. "Woo-oo!" and all the episodes before "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest!" must happen in the second half of the first year, while "The Last Crash of the Sunchaser!" and probably all episodes happening after "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest!" and before "The Last Crash of the Sunchaser!" should happen sometime during the first half of the next year after the one "Woo-oo!" and "The Impossible Summit of Mount Neverrest!" happen in.
Episodes in the first year could happen as early as July of that year, and episodes in the second year could happen as late as June of that year. But it would be impossible for the episodes to be spread out from July in the first year to June in the second year.
Since "Woo-oo!" and "The Last Crash of the Sunchaser!" are said to happen six months apart, if "Woo-oo!" happens X months before New Years Eve in the first year, "The Last Crash of the Sunchaser!" must happen (six months minus X months) after New Year's Day in the second year. And if "The Last Crash of the Sunchaser!" happens Y months after New Years day in the second year, "Woo-oo!" must happen (six months minus Y months) before New Year's Eve in the first year.
Thus it seems unlikely that "The Shadow War!" could happen anytime after June in the second year.
Aha! In "the Other Bin of Scrooge McDuck!" Lena asks Webby about the # 1 dime as Webby reads from a book that Scrooge was born in 1867.
https://twitter.com/LunarArchivist/status/1023967182974267393
So the only question about Scrooge's ultra long lifespan is when the Duck Tales episodes happen, and thus his age in those episodes. See the thread "Eclipsed" for a discussion of possibilities.
Well, now there is a reference to Carl Barks. In "The Shadow War" Gyro Gearloose makes Donald Duck swallow a "Barksian modulator", which gives Donald a different and quite understandable voice. This is a reference the the fact that Donald Duck speaks with a hard to understand "Donald Duke" voice in cartoons, which his comic book self speaks quite clearly in the voice balloons of comic book artists like Carl Barks.
And this episode of Wanted: Dead or Alive.
[url]https://moviechat.org/tt0051327/Wanted-Dead-or-Alive/58c722b95ec57f0478ec1ad2/Bounty-for-a-Bride-episode-swastika-symbol-on-Apache-tent?reply=5b6b772adedbee0014d4a22b&animate=false[/url]
And an episode of Wanted: Dead or Alive.
[url]https://moviechat.org/tt0051327/Wanted-Dead-or-Alive/58c722b95ec57f0478ec1ad2/Bounty-for-a-Bride-episode-swastika-symbol-on-Apache-tent?reply=5b6b772adedbee0014d4a22b&animate=false[/url]
Many different cultures used clockwise and/or counterclockwise swastikas and similar symbols.
There are some threads asking about Indians using swastikas in various movies.
https://moviechat.org/tt0048204/The-Indian-Fighter/58c721fe5ec57f0478eb7418/Why-does-one-of-the-indians-have-a-swastika-on-his-shield
https://moviechat.org/tt0043137/Winchester-73/58c704c74e1cf308b935f1a4/Swastika-Shown-in-the-Movie
So perhaps bobk77 should have asked about the tent the swastika was on. If the tent was a conical Tipi and the Indians were supposed to be the main Apaches that everyone knows from most westerns that is a problem. The Apaches lived to the southwest of the plains and didn't live like plains Indians so they didn't make tipis.
Long before the fictional dates of most westerns, there were many plains Apaches who lived on the southern plains, and maybe some plains Apaches lived in tipis. But during the 18th century (the 1700s) tribes from the east armed with French guns attacked the Plains Apaches, and the Comanches invaded from the north.
This resulted in pretty much the genocide of the Plains Apaches. Among the few survivors of them were the Lipan Apaches. Another group, the Kiowa Apache, allied with the Kiowas. Eventually the Kiowas and the Kiowa Apache allied with the Comanche before the time of the Indian wars of the 19th century.
So the only Apaches that I know used tipis were the Kiowa Apaches, though maybe some other groups might have.
Most movies also show Apaches living in wickiups, though some show them using tipis.
Wikipedia list of Maverick episodes has this note at the episode "Family Pride":
"With Karl Swenson as a genial general, Denver Pyle as a blackthorn stick-wielding Irishman, and Stacy Keach, Sr. as a sheriff. An early plot point involves standard time, which was not introduced to the United States until 1883, eight years after the 1875 setting for this episode."
It the note is correct that the fictional date of "Family Pride" is 1875, it means that the 8th episode aired "The Jeweled Gun", in the 1st season, on 24 November 1857, has a fictional date in the year after that of "Family Pride", in the 4th season, aired on 8 January 1961.
Thus Maverick episodes would not necessarily be produced or broadcast in order of their fictional dates.