Let me counter with where I see your assumption being made.
First, I think we must agree that the entire premise of exactly what "last hope" Luke is supposed to be is never specifically mentioned and is rather vague throughout the entire original trilogy. It's not even mentioned, at all, in "A New Hope"; in fact, Obi-Wan is the only one being mentioned as some kind of "hope" at all in Leia's famous, "Help me, Obi-Wan, you're my only hope," line. When the subtitle "A New Hope" was added to the original Star Wars, I took it to mean that Luke was now filling Obi-Wan's role, but none of the larger themes that would be introduced in "The Empire Strikes Back" had been put into play at this time.
Once we do get to "Empire", we start to see these larger themes fleshed out. Now we get the Obi-Wan reference to Luke being "our last hope," but it's never, at any point, expressed as the last hope of what? The last hope to defeat Vader? They certainly do mention that a number of times in "Empire", as if grooming Luke to defeat Vader is his biggest purpose. Or is he the last hope to overthrow the Emperor? Or the last hope to do all of that, restore freedom to the universe, and then restart the Jedi order? Because there is never any kind of specific mention of exactly what "hope" Luke is to bring, there is nothing wrong with making assumptions and "head cannon" as to exactly what Luke's ultimate destiny was to be. As a young lad of 15, leaving the theater after seeing "The Return of the Jedi", I had always imagined that Luke's destiny was to defeat the Emperor and return the galaxy to a free state and to revive the Jedi. There's nothing, anywhere, in any of the original trilogy to counter that, just as there's nothing to counter your preferred "head canon" that Luke and Leia were the last force-sensitives in the galaxy. This is where you are making your assumption... you are assuming that Obi-Wan meant that as the "last hope", that he was referring to the last force-sensitive person alive. My assumption is that he was the "last hope" to defeat the Emperor and help to bring the Jedi "religion" back to the galaxy.
I believe the OT is open-ended and vague enough on those aspects that either projection from the OT and the OT only is equally valid. If you and I were having this discussion back in 1984, theorizing the direction the Star Wars galaxy followed following the fall of the empire, either opinion was valid, as well as others we've probably not even thought of ourselves. Heck, who's to say that (again, think we're having this discussion in 1984) Leia and Han didn't hook up and have powerful force-wielding kids that Luke would help train (and not in the way of the latest trilogy, to be sure... in my own head-canon of the time, it always turned out far better!)
So, I guess this is my long-winded way of saying that, taken as the OT only, there is enough vagueness in the "destinies, prophecies, and hopes" that it is possible to extrapolate anything from what was said.
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FootOfDavros (8142)
5 years ago
Not sure if you are overlooking that Tarkin line - "The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion".
It was a simple Arthurian tale, he is destined to take his father's lightsaber and deliver the Galaxy from evil. You've got Tarkin's line and you've got the fact that Obi-Wan was camped out on Tatooine watching over the unknown variable. There's no one else coming / no one else available in this version of the story...
Of course, we can look to extend the storyline any way we wish but going back to the OP, and the point re baby Yoda, the fact is that if there were - as per the OT tale - force users all over the place, Obi-Wan's vigil makes no sense.
You are correct though in that the refinement of this only comes about with Empire and adds to that reasoning of why Obi-Wan was camped out on Tatooine.
This is also why I will have no interest in any Obi-Wan series / film. He should literally be sat down doing nothing but I'm pretty sure we will see him teaming up with other Jedi / fighting other sith, etc.
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Jamfo (408)
5 years ago
While your point is eloquently made, I still see that you are taking a number of your own assumptions and applying them as if they are hard-and-fast facts. This is not the case. Let's examine these, point by point, again, keeping only to evidence available from the OT.
TARKIN'S LINE - No, I am not overlooking his line. I am dismissing it as the bluster of a politician who is trying to assert that the new power of technology has overtaken and dismissed the "wizardry" of the Force and the Jedi. The line is a lie on its face, and I'm glad you quoted it: "The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, ARE ALL THAT'S LEFT of their religion." Is this a true statement? NO! We know, AS A FACT, that there are, at the very least, THREE other beings who are powerful with the Force: Obi-Wan, Yoda, and the Emperor. While you can forgive Tarkin for not knowing that Obi-Wan and Yoda were still alive, he certainly knows that his, "You don't know the power of the dark side," lightning-bolt tossing boss is EXTREMELY powerful with the force.
So now we look at your first assumption and apply it to Tarkin's statement: that all beings who are strong with the force are Jedi. If Tarkin truly believed his statement to be the truth, knowing the Emperor is powerful with the dark side of the Force, then that wipes out the claim that all people who are strong with the Force are Jedi. Tarkin would know that the Emperor was never a Jedi himself, but was powerful with the Force. Thus, just because someone has a strong connection to the Force, does NOT mean they had to be Jedi, and there could be thousands of people in all the trillions of sentient beings in the Star Wars galaxy who are strong with the Force, but are never trained and never realize that power. On the converse, if Tarkin was simply lying when he made the statement, then there could be untold numbers of individuals strong with the force that he simply does not know about, including two VERY powerful Jedi masters!
In either case, the EVIDENCE presented in the OT completely blow Tarkin's statement out of water. It is either the lie of a blow-hard politician, or the mistaken assumption of someone who had no way of knowing of what he was talking about.
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FootOfDavros (8142)
5 years ago
While your point is eloquently made, I still see that you are taking a number of your own assumptions and applying them as if they are hard-and-fast facts.
Meant to say this in my previous post but I think this is the key point of debate.
The argument here is my point is flawed due to what ISN'T presented in OT canon rather than what is.
Whereas my argument is based upon was IS presented on screen (Tarkin's line, the "last hope" line, Han, a smuggler, whose been everywhere, but has "seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything").
It's hard to have a debate around an a priori argument.
As I said before it's a simple Arthurian story with Luke being the key figure. His triumph against the odds and being the very last chance is what gives it it's gravitas.
Of course if you're going to argue by absence of definitive statements then you could include literally anything, e.g. Star Wars - Episode 7 the Empire is defeated but a new alien civilization has flown in from another Galaxy, killed Luke Skywalker and enslaved the Galaxy again!
But that would simply dilute the majesty of the OT by make the original storyline and it's parameters meaningless.
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Jamfo (408)
5 years ago
OBI-WAN "WATCHING OVER" LUKE - If you go back and watch the entire OT, there's no statement, anywhere, that could lead you to concretely believe that Obi-Wan was camping out on Tatooine in order to watch over Luke. You can make a pretty safe assumption that this is the case, but there is no hard and fast proof. All we know for certain is that Obi-Wan knew Luke and Leia's father, helped to hide them from the Emperor, and then went into seclusion on a pretty back-water world himself.
We can then ask the question... if he was watching over Luke, what was the endgame? There was no training involved, no contact. Had the events of "A New Hope" never occurred (for example, an idiot commander doesn't decide to NOT blast an escape pod just because there were no life forms), what was Obi-Wan's long plan? Would Luke have grown into adulthood, run off to the academy, what? And what about Leia? She's also strong with the force as a child of Vader; why is no one watching over her?
Every assumption made that Obi-Wan was watching over Luke is made purely as a guess as to the character motivations, no one in the OT ever says that they went to watch over and protect the children of Vader. This information actually comes from the PT and, if we are staying solely in the OT, we have no evidence as to what Obi-Wan, or Yoda's, motivations for doing what they did. Had events played out just slightly differently (the droids never end up with Luke), then Yoda probably dies in isolation, Luke either joins the academy or, since he wouldn't have been there to blow up the Death Star, remains on Tatooine as a moisture farmer and never once realizes his connection to the Force.
This also lends credence to the assumption (yes, it is my assumption) that not everyone who is powerful with the Force is a Jedi. If the story had played out differently, Luke may have very well grown old and died as a moisture farmer, strong with the force, but never once aware of his powers.
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FootOfDavros (8142)
5 years ago
As I was saying in my previous post, the validity of Obi-Wan "watching over" Luke is only confirmed - pure OT canon-wise - by the second film and the "last hope" line.
Otherwise Obi-Wan's vigil makes no sense and we could have Luke living out a farmer's life with Obi-Wan coincidentally right beside him just because he thought Tatooine made a nice retirement spot...
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Jamfo (408)
5 years ago
One other small aside here... Star Wars was a retelling of "The Seven Samurai" by Kurosawa, and not a pure adaptation of the Arthurian legend. Again, events of the OT alone disprove the "no one else is coming or available" connection, since Leia is out there and, as Luke's twin, supposedly has all the powers that Luke would have as a child of Vader.
In fact, it can be stated that the reason that Obi-Wan and Yoda took such a keen interest in Luke and Leia wasn't that they were the last people in the galaxy who were able to use the force, but rather because of their lineage. The ability to grow in power in the force does seem to have a familial connection, so much so that it is even stated that the Emperor feared the children of Vader, as he foresaw that they would have the power to destroy him. Obi-Wan isn't watching over Luke and ignoring the rest of the galaxy because Luke is the last person (other than Obi-Wan, Vader, Yoda, and the Emperor, of course) who can use the force, he's watching over Luke because he's Vader's son, carries Vader's power of the Force, and has a destiny that was foreseen to be the one who could overthrow the Emperor. THAT is why Luke is considered special. And that may be why they wanted someone close at hand to watch over Luke but didn't need to do the same for Leia: defeating the Emperor was Luke's destiny, not Leia's. All the rest of the Force-strong beings in the galaxy weren't part of that destiny, so were of no interest to Obi-Wan or Yoda.
So, you see, there are a LOT of assumptions on your part being made that are never explicitly spelled out or even mentioned in the OT. If you want to go with your assumptions as fact, then you are free to do so... that's the great thing about the "wiggle room" in fictional tales. But that doesn't make those that see the other side of the coin wrong, or those that are now extrapolating in a way you do not agree with in the Mandelorian wrong, either.
I think Obi-Wan said it best, "You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
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