The author said, "“When it first came out it was viewed as being far-fetched. However, when I wrote it I was making sure I wasn’t putting anything into it that humans had not already done somewhere at some time.”
http://www.stylist.co.uk/books/handmaids-tale-channel-4-tv-show-spoilers-books-real-life-true-events-margaret-atwood-elisabeth-moss
Bull! This is just some disturbing anti-Christian fantasy.
shareThat's only true if you believe that all Christians are religious fanatics and extremists who hate women.
shareIndeed. But some left-wing nuts believe anyting, if it can discredit their opponents.
shareThe same can be said for right-wing nuts.
share"The same can be said for right-wing nuts."
To some extent; however, conservatives tend to be more educated and rational than liberals. By "educated", I'm referring to factual knowledge about issues, as opposed to leftist university indoctrination.
You can't be too intelligent since you're against having a college education.
share"To some extent; however, conservatives tend to be more educated and rational than liberals."
rofl!
It is very clear that the Elite that created Gilead are a very small group of extremists (compared to the number of normal Christians, who just go about their business, not wanting to oppress people). Do you think everybody in Russia were hardcore communists when the revolution happened?
As for the book, it's a mish-mash of all sorts of terrible practises perpetrated by various cultures, and religious and political "ideologies". It's not all on the Christians, as far as real world influences are concerned.
It's interesting stuff. I recently watched a youtube video detailing how a lot of the things described in the book and the show are still happening today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooOPOL6JgE
Ironically, all the genuine practices referenced in this story are actually the doing of groups embraced and supported by Western Liberals, such as Muslims and certain African cultures. Atwood, in her anti-Christian hatred and bias, projects these activities onto her fantasy Right Wing Christian society.
shareIronically, it's happening now!
Trump signed as executive order in order to take children away from their mothers and place the children - some are babies and toddlers - in internment camps.
Then they quoted the Bible. "'It's biblical to enforce the law.'"
Obviously, it is a Republican policy supported by most Republicans. It doesn't sound like fantasy to me unless one is in major denial to reality.
BTW, Nazi "Christians" separated children during the Holocaust and killed them. Christians have removed children from Native Americans in both the U.S. and Canada. And American "Christians" slavery separated children.
@Keelai, Your beloved Communists have done far more of this sort of familial separation thing in China, Vietnam, Cambodia, North Korea, Cuba, etc. And for your information, I was referring more to the purdah like customs and genital mutilation that are done by African and Muslim cultures.
sharePeople in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
The important matter is that the truth of my subject title "Based on Reality" is being acted out by Trump's present policy.
I like what Steve Schmidt said today, "My fidelity is to my country, not my political party. Country first."
I think it's more important to focus on what's happening presently and take action to stop it especially while young innocent children and their parents suffer a Handmaid Tales nightmare.
Where was your indignation and desire for action when Obama was caging children in 2014?
https://www.apnews.com/d110c36836ab4003ad77396025616f04
Jeff Sessions has been brought up on church charges for the hateful policy of separating children from their mothers and fathers. The church charges accuse him of child abuse, immorality, racial discrimination and the misuse of Biblical scripture.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/methodists-jeff-sessions-child-abuse-immigration/
The Pope has joined with the American Catholic Bishops to denounce the policy of separating children from their parents as immoral and “contrary to our Catholic values”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-interview/exclusive-pope-criticizes-trump-administration-policy-on-migrant-family-separation-idUSKBN1JG0YC
The Southern Baptists desire to have "... immigration reform carried out to maintain the priority of family unity."
http://bpnews.net/51111/trumps-zero-tolerance-policy-denounced-defended
Perhaps a discussion as to why it's immoral to separate young children from their mothers and traumatizing them is something better addressed with your religious leader this weekend if you belong to a place of worship.
Sorry, I haven't been to church since I was 12.
And still you conveniently neglect to explain why your outrage is reserved only for Trump and not for Obama who was caging children in 2014.
Then why do you care so much about right wing Christianity? If you read my original link, then you would know that the author's references are historical, worldwide and multi-religious. Not only does it appear you didn't read the linked article, but it doesn't appear you watch the show.
http://www.stylist.co.uk/books/handmaids-tale-channel-4-tv-show-spoilers-books-real-life-true-events-margaret-atwood-elisabeth-moss
You seem to be missing the whole point about what happens when children are separated from their parents. Child abuse is wrong. I'm not sure why you don't get that.
BTW, you're assuming that I was an Obama supporter. You're assuming wrong. and I don't like deflection.
If you and your spouse are arrested for drug trafficking, your kids, regardless of their ages, will be taken away from you and sent into foster care. Why should someone who has broken the law and entered the US illegally be treated any differently?
Do I think it's pleasant? No; I don't think *anyone* likes the idea of separating families. I would have handled this differently. But, if you break the law, you take a chance that bad things will happen to you and your family.
The children are not in foster care.
They are in cages, sleeping on the floor, no communication allowed between the children and their parents, no or very little documentation being kept as to which child belongs to which parent, parents are being deported to their country WITHOUT their children, children are not allowed to be soothed or touched by government workers so they are not being comforted (remember the government worker who joked as 4 year old children cried for their mothers?), there is no transparency so we don't know what the conditions of these children are though some pediatricians have said they are showing signs of trauma.
"if you break the law, you take a chance that bad things will happen to you and your family. "
In North Korea, if a parent breaks the law, their children are also incarcerated along with their parents as are other family members. It's normal in totalitarian states that children are harmed to get to their parents.
Why are you advocating a policy that's normal in a totalitarian dictatorship within the United States?
First, the whole sleeping in cages thing is propaganda. Right now NYC has about 1000 of the migrant children in foster care as do several cities across the country. They are currently looking for a larger place, IIRC a base, so they have a single site to house them all.
This is not an easy situation, no one wants children to be separated from their parents
Is it a good situation? Hell no, children should be with their parents. In NYC doctors are reporting kids showing signs of trauma. I have concerns about how vulnerable these children are. However, just because there are people making statements that are highly inappropriate and cruel doesn't change the fact that their parents broke the law. Just because the situation is sad and heartbreaking doesn't change the fact that their parents broke the law. The parents put their children in jeopardy in the first place.
This is not analogous to the North Korean situation you cited. The children are not being incarcerated along with the parents. As I stated at the beginning of my first comment, if the parents had committed any other crime the same thing would be happening to the children. The first thing I advocate is the parents refrain from breaking the law. In lieu of that, I would have deported the kids with the parents, 14th amendment be damned.
The current administration is continuing the prior (Democratic) administration's policy. Were you as concerned then? Are you saying that we should make an exception for this particular group of criminals?
Most of these parents are fleeing gang violence in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador. These gangs are especially targeting girls. One mother left after a gang said if her 14 year old daughter didn't join, her daughter would be raped and the entire family killed. Another women was going to be killed because she had witnessed her husband's two cousins murdered. The parents and children lives are already in jeopardy in their own countries which is why flee. These are desperate people who are trying to survive. If a gang said they would kill your child, would you stay?
Also remember that American policies helped to create the problem. Some of those gangs originated in L.A. and we were supporting corrupt governments and helped overthrow a democratically elected Honduran president. Our hands are not clean and we share some responsibility.
"...The Northern Triangle is home to transnational gangs, such as MS-13 and the 18th Street Gang, both founded in Los Angeles, as well as drug cartels and criminal organizations with origins in the area’s civil wars.... Corruption, weak and unstable government institutions and political turmoil make it difficult for Central American countries to combat the gangs and violence."
This complete article:
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/central-america-s-violence-turmoil-keeps-driving-families-u-s-n884956
"the fact that their parents broke the law... "
It's not illegal to ask for asylum. Are you aware that Trump Admin. has illegally been blocking migrants from seeking asylum at the ports? There is a lawsuit pending:
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/litigation/
The children are in detention centers. That's incarceration. The ones in NYC are in foster AGENCIES - not foster homes.
Are you aware that Trump recently changed a law which required migrant children to have an attorney representing them? Why would he remove their legal advocate?
Many things you're saying is searching for justification for what's happening. There is no justification for child abuse. These children need to be returned to their parents as soon as possible.
BTW, Fox and Breitbart have a habit of censoring much of the news by omission or distortion. Many things you wrote, I've heard said on Fox for justification or to make people think what is happening is OK. It's not. Or they are trying to act as if Trump wasn't responsible. He is. He signed the executive order creating the policy of taking children from their parents. He also lied and said he couldn't change the policy. The next day he signed another EO to change the policy again. But this does nothing to unite children with their parents.
My point is that I hope you would expand your news sources. There are thousands of news sources both local and international conveniently on the internet. And fact check or go to news services which are fair and balanced.
https://www.factcheck.org/
https://www.snopes.com/
https://www.reuters.com/
https://apnews.com/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/
I've gone on the record as saying that I don't think that separating families is the best or even a good way of addressing illegal immigration. I've seen pictures released by the government from inside the facilities and it is grim.
You have your position on this and I'm not going to insult you by implying that you have not given careful consideration and research into it. I am sure you have.
Lest you think I practice tunnel vision, if you look at my computer, you will find that the news sources I read are diverse, from MSNBC to Pacifica Radio and NPR to Fox News. In addition, I have good friends who work at several NGOs and governmental agencies (including, the UN, the Catholic Worker's Movement, the NYC, 4 state and the federal government) who are either observing or directly involved with this situation. None of them are political appointees. I get plenty of input from varied sources.
The vast majority of illegal immigration is about $$, not sanctuary. Public policy cannot be based on the odd sad or shocking anecdote, it has to serve the widest set of circumstances and the fact is that someone will fall through the cracks. In terms of "evil foreign policy creating bad conditions for poor foreigners", it's the butterfly effect, no matter how well intentioned any policy will be there will always be some negative unexpected circumstances.
As flawed as some people think it is, even under the Trump administration the US has the most liberal border policy of almost any country. While it is great to be outraged at the idea of government sanctioned family separation, that outrage should be tempered by the fact this sad outcome begins with their parents' poor choices.
And since you mentioned Snopes.com, they have always been an outstanding resource and are quick to point out when any person or group manipulates accuracy for the sake of sparking public outrage: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/immigrant-girl-never-separated/
I used to work in Immigration. I know detention centers are jails because there was one in the building where I worked. A judge must sign an order for deportation. All detainees have a right to due process. It's obvious that Trump is breaking the law.
The U.S. government noticed an upsurge in people crossing the border from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala a few years ago. That upsurge was a direct result of gang violence. Do you believe your ancestors made a poor choice?
Since March 2017, Trump had been planning to separate children from their parents as a deterrent. That's something that's done in Fascist countries.
It's also obvious that Trump wants to put them in detention camps indefinitely. We might as well be honest and call them internment camps.
Trump stopped a successful program that was handling asylum seekers and their children. Instead of keeping them in jails, they lived with relatives or other housing and a social worker made sure they returned for their court hearings. They did 99% of the time - even those who were eventually deported. I'll guarantee that is much cheaper too.
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/22/17483230/family-separation-immigration-alternatives-immigrant-detention-centers
No, outrage over child abuse should never be tempered. There is no justification for child abuse and blaming the victim for the bigoted policies of a autocrat.
He has also been trying to dehumanize them by using language like "infest". Something that Hitler did when he compared Jews to rodents by using similar language. It becomes easy to mistreat, torture and kill people who have been dehumanized.
There are reasons why longtime Republicans are leaving the party. They understand the danger that Trump represents to democracy.
The little girl is still a symbol of family separations. snopes is a little late. I watched the father's interview a few days earlier on Univision. BTW, photo was labeled as "possible separation" on Getty Image.
Wow, You got me! I´m now a true believer. I´m no longer paying attention to facts, logic and reality. I will just blame Trump for all. After all, you even compare him to Hitler, so he must be a very very very bad man, because no one in Internet would do that comparison irresponsibly.
shareGood one. :)
Of course not. In the words of Trump that would be Lügenpresse aka: fake news.
Keelai, Trump did not ever sign an executive order "in order to take children away from their mothers". In fact, he signed an executive order to stop the practice in June last year. The practice is not supported by most Republicans either. Let’s keep the discussion honest and present facts.
Personally I detest injecting politics into everything, but apparently it can’t be avoided, so honesty is important. This is a TV series. It’s a fictional story. Any parallels that can be drawn to current Christianity and Christians being oppressive on such a scale are historical. Not current. There is always a danger of religion being used to oppress others. But in today’s world, Christianity is not it.
Why are you defending Trump instead of separated families?
May 2018:
"Former Attorney General Jeff Sessions said the U.S. will take a stricter stance on illegal crossings at the Mexico border by separating parents from children, rather than keeping them together in detention centers.
“If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law,” Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement event in Scottsdale, Ariz. “If you don’t like that, then don’t smuggle children over our border.”"
December 2018:
"Outgoing White House chief of staff John Kelly blamed former Attorney General Jeff Sessions for the administration's policy that resulted in the separation of hundreds of migrant children from their families.
"What happened was Jeff Sessions, he was the one that instituted the zero-tolerance process on the border that resulted in both people being detained and the family separation," Kelly told the Los Angeles Times in an interview published Sunday.
Former Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen first denied the existence of the policy, then took full responsibility after Sessions touted it."
Former AG Jeff Sessions Cites The Bible To Defend Separating Immigrant Families
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-hV67w6oYA
July 12, 2019
"Family separations aren't over. As many as five kids per day are separated from their parents at the border.
More than a year after President Donald Trump ended the policy that led to widespread family separations, migrant advocates say the government continues separating children from parents for questionable reasons.
That number jumped to more than 700 children by May, according to data the government provided to the American Civil Liberties Union, which is litigating the family separation crisis in federal court."
Ha, your comments really look dumb now that Biden's prison camps are much fuller than Trump's. And Biden is unleashing thousands of untested illegals throughout the country. Is that part of the plan as shown in this fiction?
shareYour comment is odd since no present immigration policy to separate children from their parents exists.
The opposite policy exists in which Biden wants to reunite children who were separated by Trump.
Based on the Cult of Islam, pure and simple.
Not really based on one religion. For instance, the costumes and some of the practices are based on the American Puritans. You know, the people who executed women for being "witches".
share
Based on the Cult of Islam, with costumes and practices of the American Puritans, the ones who executed women for being witches. :-)
The Puritans were Christians. In most societies, including Christian, a women was considered property of men. If a woman was raped, it wasn't the woman who was the victim, but the man who owned her. The rapist would then give a bride price to her owner and she would be forced to marry her rapist.
From the Christian Bible (Deuteronomy 22:28-29):
"If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife."
Did you know it was perfectly legal in the U.S. for a husband to rape his wife? It was only made illegal in all 50 states in 1993. Only 25 years ago!
Did you know if an American wife had a job, she could not get a credit card unless her husband gave permission to the bank? That changed in the 70s.
If an American woman was raped and her skirt was too short or she wasn't a virgin, then she was blamed because she must have been asking to be raped.
In the U.S., it was illegal for a woman to get any type of birth control or receive sex education. Imagine a married woman with 7 children being denied birth control even though she can't afford to have any more children. Women were arrested for giving sex ed information to married women and giving them birth control devices to prevent pregnancies. These women founded Planned Parenthood in 1916.
Women literally marched in the streets to have these laws changed.
I suggest you learn history in regard to women rights within Christian countries before criticizing others. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
WTF are you rabbiting on about you stupid bint. I'm not in the slightest bit interested in your bible BS, and I couldn't give a flying fuck about America either, I'm not from there.
Now trot off and tell your story to someone who gives a shit.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe ...................
You're contradicting yourself since you are posting on a board about a dystopian America and obviously enjoy American movies and TV series as your past posts demonstrate.
Your original comment stating the show was based on Islam was incorrect. The author made it clear that she used the Puritans as reference.
Your insinuation that only Islam subjugates women is also incorrect which is why I referenced Christianity which is the main source for Handmaid's Tale.
I'm pretty sure the country where you originate has a comparable history in its treatment of women after all American law and culture is basically from Europe.
You obviously care since you posted.
Great stuff
See also my reply more downward
Gilead is based on right-wing ideas, not left wing ideas:
- Men's place is as the king of his household, and doing all the jobs
- Women's place is to be obedient to the man, not work, not even to be taught to read
- cracily anti-abortion (well, it makes sense in their universe; but free market would also solve this, when eg women get 250k for a baby like Moira did..)
- anti-gayness
- over the top punishments -> like cutting off fingers, death by drowning... for religous sins like reading and adultery
Religions have been guilty of this bs, left wing nutters have not been guilty of these things.
It is not an anti-religious fantasy. It's a religious fantasy.
If you don't like women being non-religious, dressing like whores and whoring around and then getting pregnant and aborting it, and yearning for the good old days when men just do their job and be boss of their household - then you perhaps would invent such a thing as Gilead if you would be the dictator.
While if you are a philosophical humanist, you would make something different.
Totally agree. I'll add that the religious right leaders aren't really religious. They just use religion to gain power and control like the rulers in Gilead.
shareIt's based on feminazi Atwoods's satanic, antichristian hatred. What's the point? Why didn't she instead set this crap in a muslim society? Because she and other leftwing nutters love Islam.
shareThe Taliban turned Atwood's fantasy into a very horrific reality.
shareChristian sources:
*Men appointing sex predators to the Supreme Court.
*Men supporting pedophiles for senate and voting one in as a president.
*Men forcing a women to have a rapist's baby.
*Men expecting women to change their names to a husband's.
*Clothes of the Puritans.
*American, Canadian and Australian governments taken removing nonwhite children from their homes and placing them in state-run institutions or strangers in order to destroy their culture.
*A raped women being treated at fault for wearing a dress to short or not being a virgin.
*Women not allowed to own property in their names
*Women considered property of men.
*The Salem witch trials
*Birth control and sex education for women is illegal
*Government orders women to have five children each. see Decree 770
*Maid forced to have a child for sterile couple is in the Bible
This Left-Wing Propaganda Not The Truth
shareCBS is Fake News
shareSaying "fake news" doesn't change reality. Grow up!
shareTHIS VERY argument is EXACTLY why a society like Gilead is VERY possible today People will find every argument to support their political viewpoint or individual advantage. There are many examples of Gilead like human societies that have flourished in current times Saudia Arabia is just ONE example, but there are others!
What people need to understand is that it ONLY takes the SILENCE of the majority for a minority to make the most OUTRAGEOUS things possible. If you asked Commander Lawrence, an architect of Gilead, he will explain that, because of the fertility decrease, he was only trying to save humanity; if you asked Aunt Lydia, she will say, under the circumstances, she is only trying to save as many maidens as possible; if you ask Serena Waterford, she will explain she is only desperately trying to get a child. The Marthas and Soldiers of Gilead will say tell you they are simply putting food on the table or trying to survive. None of these people will admit to being FULLY FLEDGED supporters of the Gilead philosophy, yet there they are upholding the system and benefiting from it.
How many of today's population are turning a blind eye to CLEAR police executions; unjust imprisonment of INNOCENT children; blatant racism and xenophobia because they support a particular political direction or because they feel THEIR OWN individual interests are protected? I agree with the author ALL of what she has included in the book is based on things that HAVE ALREADY OCCURRED! in humanity. Some might say we are currently living in Gilead yet we don't even know it