MovieChat Forums > Moonlight (2016) Discussion > A Film For White People

A Film For White People


White people love to see the pain and confusion of Africans.

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Have you even seen this movie?

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Yes I have, I also saw Precious, Training Day & losing Isaiah.

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I haven't seen Training Day (never will, don't like Denzel), haven't seen Losing Isaiah, but I did see Precious. It definitely wasn't an upbeat film by any stretch, but I felt tremendous sympathy, respect and then admiration for the girl. How could you not? And I could be mistaken, but I thought the source novel was written by a black woman. (Maybe the movie takes liberties with the novel. I don't know, I haven't read the book.)

Did you not care for the movie?

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never will, don't like Denzel)


I used to say that about Danzel until I've watched Training day. Watch it and let me know if your opinion have change.

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Watch Fences instead.



"Chaos is merely order waiting to be deciphered"

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Planing to watch it but i'm not really enthusiasm about it...

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Have you seen the film?

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Why do you think this is?


I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna

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I believe it is to keep the African unity in America in shambles, White media bombard the African with negative whitewashed imagery of him/her self in order to keep a people ignorant of their greatness, films like Moonlight only perpetuate the false narrative of Africans in this country.

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...White media bombard the African with negative whitewashed imagery of him/her self in order to keep a people ignorant of their greatness...
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So by "people" you mean the African is being ignorant of their own greatness, or that white people just can't recognize it? What is it that makes them great?

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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White media/people refuse to recognize our greatness as a whole, whenever Africans are recognized by the European it is on the basis of exploiting and focusing on the African as an individual, not as part of a collection of people.

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That sounds a tad confused to me. You have attempted to tell me something, without telling me anything. What "aspect" of an Africans greatness, is being refused to be recognized by white\media people? As a race of people as a collective whole, what makes you any more greater or any less greater than any other race?

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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I'm not the OP, but I would say that it's not as though black people are necessarily greater than anyone else. It's that their individual and cultural strengths/greatness have been ignored, denied, or exploited. (I also know several black people who found a lot of meaning and pride in this film, but I could see why a black person wouldn't want "yet another" movie about a black man having an identity crisis or coming up in a rough neighborhood surrounded by drugs. I'm not black so my reaction isn't too relevant in this conversation.)

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Thank you DuckyGirl.


" Man, created God out of ignorance and fear"

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I haven't seen "Moonlight" and I probably won't, at least not until video. Anyway, I don't necessarily disagree with your POV, and as I am not black, I am likely much less sensitive or aware of the dynamics. But, don't you think there are some movies to have portrayed Black/African culture and experience in a proud, honest, life-affirming way?

I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna

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Yes, The Birth Of A Nation 2016.

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Just the one movie? I believe the 1916 version was considered quite racist and controversial in the day.

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I believe the 1916 version was considered quite racist and controversial in the day.


Slightly off topic, but the 1916 "Birth of a Nation" and the 2016 "Birth of a Nation" are not different versions of the same story. They merely share the same name. Ideologically, they are polar opposites.

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Thank you for clarifying.

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That should tell you something about Hollywood as a film industry.

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How do you criticize whites for basking in black suffering when there's far more black suffering in The Birth of a Nation than any other film this year? How can you claim The Birth of a Nation is life-affirming when the majority of the film is spent on the dehumanizing torture, murder and rape of black slaves not to mention so much of the film is historical inaccurate and simplified by Nate Parker to resemble a similarly inaccurate Braveheart-like setup.

You should be real about this. The Birth of a Nation is touted by bitter black people who feel powerless and are so invested in their anger that they fail to see that The Birth of a Nation follows the blueprint of what makes them angry and hopeless in the first place: Black people are being enslaved/tortured and when they revolt, they get killed and burned into grease. What's life-affirming about that... especially compared to movies about black people affirming their complex identities (Moonlight), overcoming institutional prejudice on their own merit (Hidden Figures) and coming together as a family in the face of social plight (Fences)? The latter films inform people to what's possible by standing up while latter informs people of the futility of doing so.

The idea that The Birth of a Nation is an life-affirming film is at the heart of contradiction of black nationalism: it argues for pride and unity while embracing sexism, homophobia, antisemitism, violence and historical revisionism.

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yes. this. Thank you for this.

I read this in a chola accent.

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You're welcome.

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I_Love_Hutch » Being condescending to Samf2006 doesn't do anything but feed his/her ignorance. Don't be such a wuss. List some films you have seen "that have portrayed Black/African culture and experience in a proud, honest, life-affirming way", as you put it, unless you haven't seen any. If that's the case then I do believe some people live under rocks.

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"Don't be such a wuss!"
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 I must say I had to smile when I read your comment. Most of the time I am not that transparently gentle (though I'm certainly no thug, either), but once in a while it can't hurt to try out that approach, and the OP came across as really wanting to get some kind of point across and so I thought I'd open it up.

I say you can please most people some of the time, and a few people most of the time, but you can't please Joan Crawford none of the time!


I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna

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You're right. Your approach is often worth a try but, for me, samf2006's posts lead me to believe he/she is an instigator whose mind is made up. That's all. :-)

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I guess I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. They kind of confirmed your suspicions, I think, when they came up with one movie only. There are a lot of good movies that depict the black person's experience. I would think "Raisin in the Sun", and I think the tv show "Good Times" was a very good show while John Amos was on it.

And I haven't seen them, but "Sounder" is supposed to be excellent and very moving. Ditto "The Color Purple" and "The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman".

And I always thought that Pam Grier made for an amazing, tough and likeable force to be reckoned with in the 4 Jack Hill movies she did in the 1970s.


I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna

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Thank you for knowing so much about the black experience.

"The truth isn't less true for being brutal"

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You're welcome.


I thought I was gonna die! - Roseanne Roseannadanna

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I'm open to dialogue in a respectful manner.

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Have you seen Moonlight?

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I had a chance to speak to someone after I watched the movie who did grow up in a very poor urban community (they no longer live there) and said that it did accurately capture life there when it came to toxic masculinity in these communities. If a problem is given a spotlight, steps can be taken to fix it. One cannot pretend these problems do not exist, because it "paints a negative picture."

HI-F___ING-YA
Nicholas Cage Deadfall

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"White media" - no such thing these days. The media is Jewish, and Jews are not white.

Never argue with a Cultural Marxist. They never make sense and they never give up their racism.

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if they are so great and its the white man keeping them down, explain why africa is one of the biggest *beep* holes in the world

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European Colonization.



Top Ten Of 2016 1. Fences 2. Nocturnal Animals 3. Neon Demon 4. Ixcanul 5. Moana 6. Allied 7. The Birth of a Nation 8. Morris From America 9. Southside with you 10. KICKS

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I believe it is to keep the African unity in America in shambles, White media bombard the African with negative whitewashed imagery of him/her self in order to keep a people ignorant of their greatness, films like Moonlight only perpetuate the false narrative of Africans in this country.


Listen dummy, blacks are NOT *beep* Africans. When you're grandfather was born in the US and your father and mother were born in the US and you were born in the US then guess what? You're a *beep* American. Quit separating yourself(ves) and get over it.

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How was it possible for us to be born in this country? Did we come as immigrants?



Top Ten Of 2016 1. Fences 2. Nocturnal Animals 3. Neon Demon 4. Ixcanul 5. Moana 6. Allied 7. The Birth of a Nation 8. Morris From America 9. Southside with you 10. KICKS

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"White media"? LOL. You do realize this was written and directed by an African-American?

I guess whites in Hollywood can't win. If they didn't produce the film, they'd be shamed for keeping the black man down, they produce this film and somehow, somewhere some PoC is going to figure out a way to victimize themselves and blame something/anything on whites.

Give it a rest.

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What does the existence of white media have to do with the writers of the film being black?


" I'm a African never was a African American"

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this was filmed in north america.....

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Yes I am aware of that, specifically Florida, what's your point?

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theres no Africans in this movie . . . I mean, I didn't check passaports but i am pretty sure they're all American cast.

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African by blood, unfortunately many Africans across the Americas are ignorant of this fact, therefore seeing themselves from a Eurocentric perspective.

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One is British. So they're not all Americans.

By Africans, he was referring to DNA/heritage.

If you are black and denying that your ancestors originally came from the continent, then you are just plain silly and a self-hater. It's nothing to be ashamed of. The original man came from Africa. Don't be brainwashed by the stereotypes that have been used to manipulate you into negative feelings. In the end, you are who you are. And whatever country you are born in is your nationality. But it doesn't change your DNA not matter how much you might want it to.

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Thank you.



Top Ten Of 2016 1. Fences 2. Nocturnal Animals 3. Neon Demon 4. Ixcanul 5. Moana 6. Allied 7. The Birth of a Nation 8. Morris From America 9. Southside with you 10. KICKS

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Yes, I've seen it. Why isn't this movie for African-American people too? Do you think it's unrealistic, or is it that the particular reality it reflects makes you uncomfortable?

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It's not for Africans because it does nothing to help us understand who we are as a people, it's for whites because they love to see the African docile and ignorant.

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Has Hollywood ever made a film about black people that took place before slavery/Colonial Times?


Why Star Wars: The Force Awakens sucks: https://youtu.be/8g9cJ5WKZeU

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From the perspective of the African? No, a film like that has never been made.

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From the perspective of the African? No, a film like that has never been made.


Not surprised. That question came to mind when I saw the first portion of Roots. It would be nice to see a pre-slavery film about Africans.



Why Star Wars: The Force Awakens sucks: https://youtu.be/8g9cJ5WKZeU

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[deleted]

Yet you have no problem watching white people killing each other and acting ignorant right? Because there's tons of movies making white folks look ignorant too...so what is your comment really about? Are you saying that this movie is not reality many people have to live with? Or are you just looking for a way to push your racist agenda against white folks?

Stop making everything a race issue, you bring nothing productive to the table. Racism continues because of perspectives such as yours, always generalizing and judging people simply because they share. Similar skin tone. It is by far the dumbest thing humans have come up with.


Stop the hate.

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How about you wait until Hidden Figures to come out instead of b!tching about this movie? I'm sure Hidden Figures will do better than this movie financially and also might garner Taraji P. Henson an oscar nomination.

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I'm not b¡tching, just speaking the truth.

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I'm not against these types of black movies, in and of itself. I'm just a little tired of seeing Oscar contending movies about black people that involve slavery, the Civil Rights Era, abusive families, etc.

Matt Damon received an Oscar nom for playing a white guy who had to survive on Mars. Minority actors don't get those kinds of opportunities. We're either stuck in the past, or our present is depressing. Most of the time, the focus is on us struggling within the context of race.

It just feels like old fashioned white people thinking.


Why Star Wars: The Force Awakens sucks: https://youtu.be/8g9cJ5WKZeU

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I agree.

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As inspiring as this film may be, won't it mostly just serve to reinforce negative black stereotypes to old white conservatives?



Why Star Wars: The Force Awakens sucks: https://youtu.be/8g9cJ5WKZeU

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I don't think Moonlight is inspiring as far as the story is concerned, but I will say that the brothers who wrote and directed this film are inspiring, in my opinion.

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Ha! Audiosane, "old white conservatives" will not go to see this movie, even if it winds up winning Best Picture. The OP may think it panders to whites, but it isn't sugar-coated enough to appeal to those whites who generally wouldn't go to see a movie about blacks anyway, and certainly not one that is fairly depressing and challenging in subject.

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Yes, a movie about the African experience in America needs to be made with the African in mind, it should avoid all European stereotypes about him/her at all cost. Whites/Europeans love to see Africans as docile & ignorant of their history and lineage as a people, the African who has a sense of self is a threat to the white/European.

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... the African who has a sense of self is a threat to the white/European.
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How so and what is this sense of "self" you are talking about? Self-entitled, self-pitying, self-serving perhaps. What about lack of "self"-awareness?

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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What do you think would happen if every African in America used their resources for their own people? I'm talking about every African celebrity, athlete and the everyday middle class working black who refused to be accepted in the white mainstream, to instead invest in creating their own. Sabotage would take place, if you know your history you should know that whenever Africans build together as a people, the white/European implements the corrupt system that he created against the African, look up (Black Wall Street in Tulsa).

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Why do you have to be a separate people from white, especially in the US? You are just talking garbled rhetoric and I think you are one confused and deluded individual who is racist against white people. Not all blacks would feel the same way as you either. White people are not keeping you down. If it's not white people, then who is?

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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To one extent, more black people need to invest their own community but we don't have to separate from whites to do so.

Keep in mind, the original poster is part of a new group of young black people who are terminally bitter people with a neurotic "victim complex" in which they find racism in everything without exception. Their attitudes are very much in line with white supremacists including segregation, anti-miscegenation, sexism, homophobia, antisemitism, violence and historical revisionism. They also disparage fellow black people who disagree with them by using terms such as "Uncle Tom," "sellout" and other horrible words that white supremacists called black people. They wish not to integrate, reversing one of the many aims of the last successful African-American activist movement, a movement that sought civil rights for everyone.

Remember, this person sees an "affirmation of black life" in films like The Birth of a Nation, a film in which black life is dehumanized and exterminated while decrying Moonlight, a film in which a black person embraces his own complex identity. My advice is don't engage it. You're not in their way. They're in their own way.

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Thank you for expressing your true feelings about my post, I find it interesting how you are for black empowerment but not without the involvement of white folks, while at the same time you talk negatively about the Nat Turner movie without naming the people who made black life so dehumanizing, you refuse to name the very people who were responsible for the extermination of black folk,
yet you want to include the same people in the empowerment of black folk? I understand how you feel, it's all love.


" Don't confuse who I am with what you do"

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I find it interesting how you are for black empowerment but not without the involvement of white folks

Nowhere in any of my posts do I say white people must be involved in any endeavor toward black empowerment. I understand that's what you wish to read into any criticism of your own statements considering this is the main interest of folks of your ilk.

However, if white people or any group of people wish to help or support such efforts, I would not refuse them. Dr. Martin Luther King certainly didn't. Dangerfield Newby didn't refuse to join John Brown in the raid on Harper's Ferry. James Chaney didn't refuse Andrew Goodman & Michael Schwerner (two Jewish Americans) in working on civil rights (which all three were murdered for attempting).

Its also quite telling that you spend literally zero time addressing statements I've made toward your original post.

while at the same time you talk negatively about the Nat Turner movie without naming the people who made black life so dehumanizing

I would certainly talk negatively of a poorly made film that has very little historical truth. I also don't see need to rant about white slave owners from the 1800s. Again, I understand that rage against the white populace is a fetish of your type, but such fetishes achieve nothing for yourself or anyone else.

you refuse to name the very people who were responsible for the extermination of black folk

Name every white person responsible for extermination of black people from 1600 to 1900. After you do that, tell me how that empowers you or me.

yet you want to include the same people in the empowerment of black folk?

Never said that. You did.

P.S.: Watching historically-incorrect movies and hating white people don't empower people. Self-education, self-sufficiency, personal responsibility, enfranchisement, economic improvement and investment empower people. One does not need to be uniformly hostile to other groups or separatist to do this, and there is no ethnic group in a Western nation that is going to wield economic power without interacting with other groups. Given that you don't know that hints that you have no economic status within this society and certainly no historical or informed perspective.

And yes, its all love. I have pity for the ignorant, not hatred.

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What exactly makes the Birth of a Nation historically incorrect? I tried to ignore your overly critical view of the film but you repeatedly kept bringing it up, so what specifically was not true in the movie?

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1. Nat Turner did not grow up with his final slave owner as depicted in the film.
2. Nat Turner was sold several times throughout his life.
3. Nat Turner was owned by a man named Joe Turner at the time of the rebellion.
4. The indiscriminate lynching of hundreds in Southampton did not happen.
5. Nat Turner was unable to actually kill anyone but Margaret Whitehead.
6. Nat Turner often left the murder of those he attacked to a cohort.
7. The rape of Cherry Turner did not precipitate Nat's rebellion.
8. The rebellion killed women & children, which was glossed over in the film.
9. A baby's head was severed, not a slave owner.
10. The slave rebel army did not actually make it ten miles to Jerusalem.
11. The slave rebel army couldn't recruit new slaves and shrunk to a mere handful.
12. Turner’s surrender came after being found in a hole close to where the revolt began.
13. There was no climatic last battle.

The specific changes twist things to suit a specific end that is more cinematic, climatic & easy-to-digest (à la Braveheart). I also find it funny that the same people who criticize Hollywood for its racism trust it so much when it makes a film about their history, especially when they don't portray their own history accurately (i.e.: JFK, The Patriot, Gladiator, 300). The sad part is most take more time to see a Hollywood film about their history than they do to pick up a book or use the internet to investigate their own history. Its even more sad that people think there's some kind of liberation in these movies. I never heard a Jew say they feel liberated by watching Holocaust movies or say they believe making more of them is going to open doors for them. Its a bad joke.

Secondly, your main problem is that you try to ignore contrary information and alternative points-of-view instead of actually hearing them and scrutinizing them. Instead, you have a narrative in your head and you only look for evidence to suit that narrative. I have more interest in truth and am willing to look at the data to see if a statement is true. I read everything you write and take it in. Doesn't take long either because I've heard it many times before. Here's my full review of The Birth of a Nation: https://teriekwilliams.com/2016/12/24/the-birth-of-a-nation-a-controversy-for-nothing/. In it, I lay out specific criticisms of the storytelling and historical accuracy, as well as praise for Nate Parker's basic competency at the filmmaking form.

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It would be much appreciated if you had cited your sources, I would like to know who wrote those accounts of Nat Turners life. As for my problem with ignoring alternative points of view, I feel it unnecessary to entertain the different opinions of others, I'm more interested in analyzing factual/truthful information that adheres to the plight of African people in this country.


" I'm a African never was a African American"

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It would be much appreciated if you had cited your sources, I would like to know who wrote those accounts of Nat Turners life.

- The Land Shall Be Deluged with Blood: A New History of the Nat Turner Revolt (2016) by Patrick Breen.
- Nat Turner (2008) by Kyle Baker
- The Fires of Jubilee: Nat Turner's Fierce Rebellion by Stephen B. Oates
- Leslie M. Alexander, historian, review for The Nation.
- Nate Parker on 60 Minutes (admits historical inaccuracy after previously saying accuracy was "important" to him).

I feel it unnecessary to entertain the different opinions of others, I'm more interested in analyzing factual/truthful information that adheres to the plight of African people in this country.

First off, people who don't listen to contrary opinions are arrogant individuals that lack insight. Second, facts and information produce opinions. Based on statistical facts, many argue that black neighborhoods need an increased policing presence as well as policies such as "broken windows" policing and stop-and-frisk. If one disagrees, they have to produce a different opinion on how to approach the statistical facts. On top of that, not everything occurring in society is done on the basis of facts. Many claims by religion are challenged by historical/scientific fact, yet most people are still religious. Human beings are not always logical. Feelings and opinions are very strong things to contend with and only a listening person can do so to the betterment of society.

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Thank you for the sources. When I said I don't entertain different opinions of others let me be clear, I don't tolerate opinions based on false information ( for example) trying to convince me that the movie The Birth of a Nation is historically incorrect, the portrayal of Nat Turners life probably didn't play out exactly as the movie, but everything that happened to the slaves in the movie, it happened to them in this very country not too long ago. I welcome contrary opinions that bring about logical explanations, but as soon as a person begins to spew nonsense and use false equivalences to argue with me, I feel no need to engage in conversation.


" Remember your Ancestors, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, MLK."

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and.... ignored.

Your film gods: Lee Van Cleef and Laura Gemser
http://tinyurl.com/pa4ud44

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Yes!

" Remember your Ancestors, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, MLK."

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I don't tolerate opinions based on false information ( for example) trying to convince me that the movie The Birth of a Nation is historically incorrect,

The historical inaccuracy of The Birth of a Nation is not an example of opinions based on false information. This is evidenced by your next statement which contradicts yourself as follows, "the portrayal of Nat Turners life probably didn't play out exactly as the movie," which is an understatement unless you're one of those "alternative facts" people.

but everything that happened to the slaves in the movie, it happened to them in this very country not too long ago

Then make a fictional film where this is done to other slaves. Don't take a historical figure and create a fiction around them. To excuse that by saying, "Oh but it happened to someone else" is an intellectually dishonest response. Its like saying, "Sure, Jimmy Hoffa probably didn't die in the way depicted in Hoffa BUT the mafia killed people that way." What does have to do with the subject of historical accuracy? Nothing. Its a cop-out defense. What you really mean is, "I don't care how accurate the history of my people is as long as the violence against them is shown." Maybe its you who likes to see black people suffer so you can feel validated by victimization.

If you're arguing it doesn't matter how you portray the man or woman as long as it bares some historical accuracy to someone else, you have no true grasp of the concept of false information and have further debased yourself yet again on a board in which even the worse argument trumps your own. So before you tell people to "Remember your Ancestors, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, MLK," why don't you give it a try first. And when you "remember" them, remember the facts and information in more detail than "it probably didn't happen to him but it happened to someone else at the time."

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It is dangerous to overly highlight the film as 'historically incorrect' for people (especially future born Africans in America) might begin to misinterpret or disregard African history all together, it's bad enough the white/European has purposely kept African history hidden for centuries, constantly changing the narrative to fit his agenda. The opinion you have concerning the film as incorrect is not only false but misleading, yes the nitpicks you mentioned about the depiction of Nat's life is true, but to claim that the film as a whole is 'historically incorrect' only caters to white Americans who love to discredit any work concerning the issue of race as a farce.

"Remember your Ancestors, Frederick Douglass, Toussaint l'Ouverture, Denmark Vesey

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It is dangerous to overly highlight the film as 'historically incorrect' for people (especially future born Africans in America) might begin to misinterpret or disregard African history all together,

1. Its dangerous to allow historical distortions to go unchallenged.
2. People should be respectful of history and not distort it.
3. Future born Africans will have every opportunity to check the record.
4. Refusal to check the record because historians challenge a film is idiotic. People like this deserve no sympathy.

it's bad enough the white/European has purposely kept African history hidden for centuries, constantly changing the narrative to fit his agenda.

1. Defending Nate Parker for changing the events/narrative of the rebellion makes you a hypocrite.
2. Only fools expect white Europeans or anyone to do anything for black Americans. Do for yourself.

The opinion you have concerning the film as incorrect is not only false but misleading, yes the nitpicks you mentioned about the depiction of Nat's life is true

1. The "nitpicks" don't claim the depiction is true. They argue certain things are true & others are patently false.
2. You didn't read 3 books, a review & a 60 min. interview in a day to judge the facts (not opinion) I cite.
3. A half-truth is a falsehood.
4. Nitpicking means attacking insignificant details.
5. The basis of the rebellion and the events leading to it are not insignificant events.
6. Parker changes the basis of the rebellion, removes/adds events such as fictional forced ministerial preaching.
7. The true event had an impact. Changing the reality changes the impact & what was/can be learned from it.

but to claim that the film as a whole is 'historically incorrect' only caters to white Americans who love to discredit any work concerning the issue of race as a farce.

1. Had Parker not embellished, historians would support/reinforce the film. Parker's to blame. You too.
2. If you think analyzing inaccuracy caters to whites, unchallenged myths cater to blacks by definition.
3. The intellectual legitimacy of your advocacy of black history and empowerment are a farce.
4. Try not to debase yourself any further.

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The problem is not the film, for you it is Nate Parker. I love how you try to compare the creative choices of Nate with the centuries of blatant lies by white/Europeans concerning African history, if that's what makes me a hypocrite then so be it, let me continue debasing myself into oblivion.



" Remember your Ancestors, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, MLK."

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The problem is not the film, for you it is Nate Parker.

I could care less about Nate Parker. But if you think so, fine. Its still a bad film from a storytelling point of view as well as a historical one.

I love how you try to compare the creative choices of Nate with the centuries of blatant lies by white/Europeans concerning African history,

I'm glad you love it. Telling lies about history has the same impact regardless of who's telling the lie.

if that's what makes me a hypocrite then so be it,

Thanks for admitting your hypocrisy. On that basis, your opinions are ignorant, irrelevant, invalidated and to be ignored.

let me continue debasing myself into oblivion.

Then disappear. Take your idiocy along with you. It won't be missed, especially since it means nothing, changes nothing and helps nobody least of all yourself.

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I was beginning to think we were developing a meaningful relationship, oh well maybe next time.


" Remember your Ancestors, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, MLK."

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