I’ve noticed every year we get a “black people have it hard” movie that gets a lot of Oscar buzz. Was there segregation back in the day? Yes. But upon reviewing multiple interviews with Katherine johnson, didn’t seem like she was treated differently.
Did Katherine Johnson feel the segregation of the outside world while working at NASA?
No. "I didn't feel the segregation at NASA, because everybody there was doing research," says the real Katherine G. Johnson. "You had a mission and you worked on it, and it was important to you to do your job...and play bridge at lunch. I didn't feel any segregation. I knew it was there, but I didn't feel it." much of the racism coming from Katherine's coworkers in the movie seems to be largely made up (in real life she claimed to be treated as a peer) and was surprised a movie was being made about her.
It's because the movie was made by stupid liberals that ignored what real history had to say, and wanted to push an agenda to remind people just how bad it was for black people back in the day. Part of what they're trying to do, is to shame white people and fire up black people's anger with films like this. It makes you wonder what the black community would say if they knew white liberals had made up some of this crap.
Based on the book Hidden Figures and actual history I've read, things were much worse for African-Americans than depicted in the movie. There is no reason you need to feel shamed by anything in the movie.
I'm fairly certain that "the black community" isn't naive and stupid enough to think that this movie was anything to get excited about regarding the racist history of the United States.
Funny how everyone forgot that blacks weren't the only ones to be treated like shit in America in the past. Just ask the Irish. And you don't have to be white to be racist. I see it all the time from Indians, Blacks, Hispanics, and even Asians once in a while, and yet, due to the liberals' double-standards, it's only bad if white people do it.
Not to mention they got rid of segregation in NASA back in the 1940s, 20-some years before the events of this film, so the segregation part makes absolutely no sense other than to artificially make life look like hell for the black women working there.
Making up your own facts not a convincing way to make an argument. NASA was formed in 1958. NASA also complied with state regulations concerning segregation.
I know racism affected everyone. But this movie was based on a book that was written mainly about the female black computors and engineers working for NACA and NASA. The book was more about race relations than the space program. The book is a very interesting read, as is the book, The Rise of the Rocket Girls. It details how women first entered the space race and dealt with sexism as much as the black computors dealt with racism.
Someone else pointed out that these women weren't as spectacular as they made themselves out to be in the book. That, and they never had to run a mile across campus, just to take a piss. They also never had a scene like where the guy in charge knocks the "whites only" bathroom sign down. All of that was made up for the film.
And no, I didn't make up the part about white, Irish Europeans being treated like crap, nor am I lying about how racism is racism, no matter who does it. Here's another fact I didn't make up: some slaves in America were actually white!
"Someone else pointed out that these women weren't as spectacular as they made themselves out to be in the book."
SO much stupid in one post. Wow:
Why on earth are you claiming these women "made themselves out" in Any particular way? This book was written by Margot Lee Shetterly. . .NOT any of the women profiled. How does that lead you to bray such an absurdity?
But sure, let's review: Katherine Johnson broke new ground in the mathematics of space travel, NASA dedicated a BUILDING to her, and she was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Mary Jackson became the nation's (world's!) first black aerospace engineer, earned the Congressional Gold Medal, and had the Washington, D.C. *headquarters* of NASA named after her. Dorothy Vaughan taught herself Fortran, rose to the head of ACD at Langley, has a satellite and a lunar crater named after her, and also earned a Congressional Gold Medal.
Nah. Nothing spectacular about these women at all. Not by their estimation, yours, or the author's.
Try this: stack up Your accomplishments against any of these women. When you're done (let's face it, you're Already done), reflect on the fact that the very real persecution Irish Americans (what on earth is an "Irish European"???) faced is irrelevant, for the purposes of this discussion. Nobody's saying other folks didn't have it bad. *This* movie is about three special women who achieved dizzying heights, in decidedly difficult circumstances.
But you knew all that already. You're just making a pathetic attempt to stir the pot. Congratulations: you've embarrassed yourself. You can go now.
How about we stack up your accomplishments first, see how pathetic you look, trying to put me down to make yourself out to be a righteous twit.
I'll bet you've never
- gone to college
- had to compete with other people for a job during the Great Recession
- had to take care of anyone besides yourself
- had to to perform ridiculous computations for mathematics regarding physics or medicine
- had to take care of someone with a serious illness
- had to take care of a ton of children that aren't yours
- had to repair a car with your bare hands
- never studied real history or real science beyond what the news tells you
- had to take on roles you weren't ready for
- had to read books you didn't care for and yet are forced to do research papers on to please some overpaid asshole with the word "professor" in front of their name
- had to do a dirty job (for no pay) that nobody else would do because they didn't have the stomach for it
Yeah, don't compare yourself to me, and don't you dare compare me to some physicist in NASA. You don't see the physicists working there today getting any recognition, and they have learned a thing or two since Katherine's day. NASA has become a fucking joke in the past 60 years, no thanks to our government spending all that money on welfare programs instead of scientific progress! The only reason we even go to space at all is because we now have SpaceX and several other private agencies working on the next generation of space flight. And I don't see you working by the sweat of your brow to help them do any better than they are now!
So go back to the shadow and shut your stinking hole, shitwad! Your opinion is like your asshole, you have one, it stinks, and nobody wants to hear it. Good day!
Nice try. Your deflection and knee-jerk anger is anticipated, and hilarious. Bottom line: YOU denigrated the accomplishments of three incredible women, stupidly claimed *they* were inflating their reputations, and added a soupcon of irrelevance about how hard the Irish had it. Nothing in your diatribe addresses any of that, because, face it: you have no response.
FYI: there *are* three things on your list I've never done. You've shown that critical thinking isn't your thing, so let me explain why that's irrelevant: Because It's Irrelevant.
The movie sugar coated the racism that existed back then. The book goes into great detail about the racism that was rife in in NACA/NASA and Virginia.
According to the book;
Katherine said she was not exposed to much in the way of racism while at NASA. She did not bother to search for a black ladies room after she found out she was using the white restrooms in the building she worked in. It was Mary Jackson who was mocked by her female co-workers when she asked where the colored ladies room was. The book also went into detail about the "mask" Mary and other blacks wore when dealing with whites. It was Mary who lost her temper with her boss which ended up advancing her career when he offered her a promotion.
The book also went into detail about other racism in NASA at the time and the extreme measures the state took to ensure black and white kids were not educated together. The movie was a light and fluffy puff piece of entertainment compared to the book.
Yes, racism racism racism. That's all we ever hear. Black people always the victim. Every year we get a new movie with more proud black people being oppressed by evil whitey.
the movie is literally a semi true story about black women in 1960s Virginia not even a decade after Jim Crow laws were ended. and you are going to tell me there wasn't massive massive racism? you guys are soo fucking dumb
The racism of the time was both exaggerated and diminished. Yes, the bathrooms at NASA weren't actually segregated, Johnson used the same restroom as the white women. But no, the film didn't really show the wider effects of racism and segregation, none of the crap that black Southerners had to put up with every damn day, and none of the fear of losing one's livelihood or the constant threat being lynched (tortured and murdered by your white neighbors) for some trifling act that pissed off the local KKK members and other psychopaths.
The characters are middle-class and well educated, they'd already escaped the common fate of being limited to careers as farm workers or domestic servants, as were most southern blacks. They lived in a middle-class world where they were comparatively unscathed by the horrors of segregation and domestic terrorism, so I suppose in order to let the audience know just how horrible and demeaning this "Seperate but equal" crap meant to people, they had to incorrectly show NASA as segregated.
I'm assuming the people picking holes in the film have not read the book. The film starts something like half way through the book and the first half is all about the separate bathrooms, separate eating areas, having to walk on the other side of the street from the white girls college, how deliberately poor and underfunded the black people schools were and how hard these women had to work to get to this stage in their lives and still have to push against barriers because of their race and gender. To represent all that with a few exaggerations at a later date seems a reasonable cinematic approach to me.
I admit I was very disappointed to find out that the whole bathroom thing was made up, it worked so beautifully on film that I should have known better to think it was true! Now I think as a way to illustrate the everday humiliations of segregation it was a damn good piece of filmmaking, because a woman who worked at NASA and who was married to an army officer didn't have to deal with as much awfulness as most.
And it's disturbing to see so many people defending segregation by implication, or trying to say that black people didn't have it so bad under Jim Crow. Scum of the Earth, they are.
It was not ALL made up. It was Jackson who was mocked (she claimed) by white woman when she asked where she could find a bathroom. The film changed it to Johnson's problem.
According to the book, the bathrooms were segregated. Johnson did not know at first, then when she found out, she didn't give a damn. Johnson was also not treated so poorly as depicted in the film.
But yeah, the film sugar coated the problems that were described in the book.
According to the book, the bathrooms near Johnson's workplace were officially segregated, but nobody had a problem with her using the only availlable women's room. Like I said, by this point in their lives, the main characters had achieved a place in society where they suffered far less from segregation than most.
But segregation was still the law, and if they changed a few minds about racial differences and sexism by being incredibly fucking brilliant, then in their own small individual way, they did their part to overturn laws that were monumentally unjust.
"They lived in a middle-class world where they were comparatively unscathed by the horrors of segregation and domestic terrorism"
You mean like the rich and middle-class black people in Tulsa? The whole point of racism is to deny opportunities to a marginalized group while the group in power gives themselves advantages and special privileges.
The Civil Rights Movement was lead by middle-class Blacks who were denied opportunities in jobs, housing, education, etc.. because of discrimination and racism.
And sexism! In those days. Female mathematicians at NASA were limited to checking the work of male mathematicians.
In the balance I like the movie a lot, because in addition to everything else it accomplished... it made it ainfully clear that racism, segregation, and sexism were just plain STUPID! People who were by law and custom limited to menial jobs, really did have the brains to send humans into space.
I like the movie as a history lesson. I didn't know about any of the women involved in the NASA program and that they were called computers.
Discrimination was never about ability. It's about maintaining a hierarchy. Historically, when some of the barriers are torn down, the ones in power will fight back to restore them.
The sad thing is, if the public had known that NASA was paying black women to double-check the work of white male scientists, the segregationists would have freaked the fuck out! Death threats or burning crosses on lawns! That's what's so bizarre about the situation we see at the beginning of the movie.
What looks horribly oppressive and discriminatory to us, was actually scandalous liberal by the standards of the South circa 1960. And people still want to bring that living hell back...
"paying black women to double-check the work of white male scientists"
Interesting point.
The women did their own calculations which was considered women's work:
"Women were welcome as computers partly because the work was viewed as a dull, low-status activity. Men with elite educations generally wanted no part in it. Not only were women hired, but so were blacks, polio survivors, Jews and others who were routinely iced out of job opportunities.
“The reason that these pre-electronic computation jobs were feminized is they were seen as rote and de-skilled,” says Mar Hicks, a historian and author of Programmed Inequality. It wasn’t true, though: “In a lot of cases, the women doing these computation jobs actually had to have pretty advanced math skills and math training, especially if they were doing very complex calculations.
The work could require superhuman endurance, though. “They had to keep working eight hours a day doing the same equation over and over again—it must have been mind-numbing.”
“The male engineers often were not good mathematicians. So the women made their work possible.” Still, some friction existed. Women who asked for promotions got stonewalled or turned down: “For women who wanted to move up, who wanted to be supervisors—particularly if that involves supervising men? Not so much.”
The human computers faced an even more existential threat: digital computers, which promised to work with far greater speed and to handle complex math—like inverting a 10x10 matrix—beyond the ken of even the most adroit human with a pencil.
Women, though, were among the original coders of these strange new digital brains, because in the early days programming, too, was seen as dull work.
The earliest programmers for the Eniac—the military-funded first programmable general-purpose computer—were entirely women, plucked from the ranks of the Army’s human computers. And though they wound up inventing brilliant coding techniques, they received none of the glory: When the Army showed off the Eniac to the press, running lightning-fast ballistics-crunching algorithms, it didn’t introduce the women who’d written the code." https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/history-human-computers-180972202/
Being a "human computer" was probably about as good a job as was available to a female mathematician, most would be expected to become high school math teachers. A few might teach at the college level of even become professors, but of course all the good tenured positions would have been reserved for men. *White* men, at almost all universities.
It's a sad world we live in, because there are still SO many people who think of that kind of discriminatory environment as "the good old days"!