MovieChat Forums > The Expanse (2015) Discussion > Very overrated, meandering, slow

Very overrated, meandering, slow

posted 8 years ago by Thradar
35 replies | jump to latest

I just can't get into this show, and it boils down (for me) to this:

-Too much time between seasons (a horrible SyFy tradition). A year between seasons (small 10 ep seasons AT THAT) causes people's interests to wane, they also forget what even happened on the show a year ago. Dumb.
-Meandering plot (something about a missing girl and belters and factions and politics and an alien virus, but it feels so incohesive to me)
-Meandering settings (references to random space stations and groups of people are meaningless)
-No real likable characters
-Horrible audio mixing (season 1 was bad, and not fixed in season 2)
-Mumbling/whispering characters (everyone emotes like Christian Bale's Batman), often drowned out by overmixed ambient sounds (see item above)
-That woman with the 50 pack a day voice. Can't stand her, want to fast forward every scene she's in.

Pro: amazing visual production values for a TV show. I just wish it was all applied to a more cohesive story, with better characters.

Ratings are abysmal for a reason. I'm sticking with it, but when I fire up the DVR in the evening to watch something, it's one of the last shows I go to.

[–] ridah (291) 6 years ago

You nailed it, totally agree with everything you said! Being a Sci-Fi nut I had to watch this series because it gets such high reviews from everyone. However I was very disappointed. I'm not one of those 1 episode reviewers, I trudged through ALL of season 1 so can fairly say it's a lame TV show.

Unlikable characters, too dark, too boring and slow, horrible acting, terrible cinematography and depressing. The show is like a very boring political movie but set in space. The whole season is like 3 countries (in this case celestial bodies) at odds with each other. The only redeeming quality I can think of is it's fairly realistic when it came to space physics and futuristic things. Not sure what all the hype is about.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

"The whole season is like 3 countries (in this case celestial bodies) at odds with each other."

Yes indeed , that is the whole premise of the show, just like star wars is two organisations at odds with each other.
The Expanse is a bit of a slow burner at times I admit, but theres lots of elements to it - the detective , the 3 countries political bickering , secret weapon development , fugitive pirate ship , guerilla war.

Did you watch seasons 2 & 3 ?

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I totally agree with you and have same feelings about this TV show. I also watched whole season and it was super boring, dragging, slow crap show. It was so uninteresting that I didn't even remember episodes I watched, nor I care about any character in this TV show. I can't believe people are actually liking this TV show. It's most overrated TV show I have ever seen. Total boring trash. And I'm not one of those people who hates SCI-FI. I loved good SCI-FI material. I loved "Prometheus", "Alien" and other interesting, great movies, but this TV show isn't one of them.

[–] AmeriGirl26 (15104) 6 years ago

I had issues with how dark and depressing the show was, in addition to how slow the story was. There wasn't really much to make me want to cheer for the "good guys" any more than the bad guys, and I really did not like the liberal, SJW values sprinkled generously throughout the show. Last thing I need to hear, is how great the UN is, sticking a gay person in every 5 minutes, dumping on Christians every 3 minutes, things never getting any better, people getting killed or badly wounded every 5 seconds, and yes, the Indian woman's voice is not pleasant to listen to. I got sick of all of it after season 1 and never went back.

[–] ATG6 (3000) 5 years ago

the Indian woman's voice was the best part of the show

[–] Roguemail (1634) 5 years ago

I watched the first episode if season 4 a few days back, and I dont like the way they keep giving Shohreh Agadashloo profanities to utter in almost every sentence. I'm not offended by it, it just seems out of place.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Yes, it's a bit much. Flanderization comes to mind. However, she is the secretary general now and was known to curse every now and then. Maybe the new job is stressful enough to unleash her potty mouth. So it's not entirely unbelievable.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Makes you want to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, doesn't it?

[–] Allison44 (602) 5 years ago

ONE gay couple, Craig and Frank. ( seas. 1)I fail to see ANY Christian bashing . I know your comment is an old one but I'd love to know how you got your astounding take. I'm thinking one gay person is one too many for you ? And Aghdashloo is Iranian.

[–] Iffy762 (1334) 5 years ago

The Mormons were kind of ridiculed with their generation ship. The male (Catholic? I wasn't sure but it seemed like it) priest was presented as a coward and the female uber-liberal SJW pastor was presented as strong and brave. It wasn't so much that it was bashing as that it showed a total failure to understand how such religions work. The show manages to think carefully about the details of how people would walk around on a spaceship and how politics would be affected by people terraforming different planets. The reality is that religion would probably play a bigger part than the show assumes, considering that the risk to life would be high, and it deserved more attention to getting that aspect right.

[–] ATG6 (3000) 5 years ago

It's the first show that really captures what sub-light speed space travel would be like -- long expanses of time where nothing happens.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

The show is well written and great if you manage to follow all the plot lines. If not then you're not the audience.

[–] papamihel (1616) 5 years ago

It's the best space sci-fi since BSG. Granted this doesn't mean a lot but still...

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 5 years ago

It's another fake show.

Any show with a meandering plot is a fake show made by writers that have no story, but want to pretend they do.

AND, that fucking harsh voiced woman sounds like she is reading her lines, and is so hard to listen to. I can't take it.

There's a lot of bland acting too.

Oh, there's the giant alien artifact. Yeah, and how was lunch?

[–] Filmtenk2 (4137) 5 years ago

I think it's a great show. No it's not a Marvel budget production but it looks pretty effin great, and at least good enough to suspend disbelief. Characters and writing are a lot of fun once you get to know them. It might just be the difference in the way you saw it. I watched it from season 1 so had the week by week format. Id say the show rewards you for sticking with it. Or it's just not for you. Bye the way, this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but I'm sick of hearing "SJW nonsense" as a reason not to like a show. It's so overused it means nothing anymore.

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

Yeah, me too, it is pretty much my favorite science fiction show ... adult science fiction that is. I liked Star Trek The Original Series as a kid. The last season was a big step down though. I hope the next season is better, and that it leads to more seasons, but they blew it in the season where they went through the ring.

The characters are great and the plot is not simpleminded nonsense.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 5 years ago

I bet you don't really like it.

What's to like? There is no story and it's very slow.

Nothing happens on the show.

Also, you don't need big special effects you need story and good dialogue. This has neither.

[–] maximmm (3408) 5 years ago

I agree 100%. At the same time, this show has more keyboard defenders than Nolan.
Altered Carbon is a bit of a convoluted mess - so, I wouldn't declare it a must watch TV series either, but it is vastly superior to this show.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 5 years ago

The expanse is boring.

I have been trying to watch season two of Altered Carbon, because I liked the books. I literally forgot to continue watching it and I think there's a couple episodes left.

It is horribly boring and loses me. I have the attention of a laser beam and never get distracted. With this show, I'm like what...what did he say...and I can't follow it. The fucking indulgent bartender AI is heinous...vast scenes of him thinking about being dysfunctional...boring.

This is supposed to be a military detective kinda of story. It's so dull.

The expanse is heinous with blandness. I can't believe these giant alien devices are around and everyone is chll about it.

[–] maximmm (3408) 5 years ago

I kind of agree with you. Still, I managed to get through season 1 of the expanse and swore to never see another season again. Perhaps books are better? But I checked a few boards and people say books often comprise of filler material as well, so I suspect not.

Altered Carbon though, season 1 was all right (not great, but not bad). Season 2.... I'm still only on episode 4 and there's a definite drop in the quality of writing when compared to season 1. Them using different actors - sleeves - isn't helping the matters. The word is, the books are actually pretty decent though.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 5 years ago

I was determined to "watch something" and tried to watch the second season of Expanse, but stopped. I drift off, as with Altered Carbon, and miss what is happening.

That almost never happens to me with anything.

These shows are boring, and they shouldn't be.

Also the expanse has that old Iranian actress with the gravel voice saying "fuck" all the time and she is gross. It's so hard to watch.

[–] brux (14840) 4 years ago

After all who would know better what they would like, you or them?

[–] brux (14840) 5 years ago

So don't watch it ... what a loss.

[–] Mekratrig (176) 5 years ago

I felt the same after watching the episodes one at a time. Suggestion: rewatch Expanse when you have time to binge 3 or 4 episodes (even bettar, a whole season) at a time. When I did that, my opinion of the series went up - a lot. I now considar it to be the finest SF series since Babylong Five. YMMV.

[–] BourbonKing (5788) 5 years ago

I agree, this show is very similar to Babelon Five and it tries to mimic the broader galactic political landscape of Gene Rosenberrie's Stark Trek Universe. My only issue is the lame casting of exceptionally attractive ethnic people who don't act ethnic but rather stale and wonder bread white.

[–] brux (14840) 4 years ago

Not enough racism in it for you eh?

[–] BourbonKing (5788) 4 years ago

[–] Iffy762 (1334) 5 years ago

I agree with this. I found season 1 really difficult; the plot is just really convoluted and for some of the key scenes all the people look the same or all the spaceships look the same. I had to watch season 1 twice to get it. But once I did that, I was totally hooked. I think it's the kind of show you have to watch several episodes at a time and then they build on each other.

Season 4 was a bit slow but since it's based on a series of books, I'm reasonably confident the payoff is going to be worth it.

I find the nitty-gritty of living in space to be one of the most fun parts of the show. The whole thing with how blood behaves in zero gravity, that kind of thing. Fascinating. And the sound of the magnets on their boots clicking, and how consistently they do that. It's a sensory experience. You know those touch-and-feel books for toddlers? It's like that. Click! AAaaaaaaahhhh.......

[–] brux (14840) 4 years ago

I think that is a fair praise, and criticism. I heard about this on the radio critiqued on Fresh Air I think it was. I thought I would check it out, but it reminded me a lot of show that even as a science fiction fanatic since I was kid I did not like - like Babylon 5. But after starting it and watching it over a few times I started to like it a lot. In fact that is what makes it watchable is that you can watch it again and again and get some new aspect out of it.

I was not impressed as I was with S4 as S3. I loved S3 and Cara Gee as Camina Drummer and especially David Strathairn as Klaes Ashford, but then they kill of Ashford after leaving him active at the end of S3 ... go figure? Those two were magnificent in their interactions. Drummer was coldly pragmatic and yet feminine at the same time and I've never seen anyone play such a role so well as Cara Gee did ... she is fantastic. And Strathairn picked up this world as if he had been living there all his life.

S4 was a big let down after all the setup to go through the ring, the story was boring, and Frankie Adams as Roberta 'Bobbie' Draper had nothing to do and as another brilliant character was totally wasted.

The thing about the blood pooling internally was interesting. Don't know where that came from as I don't think I remember it from reading or seeing other SF. The thing I don't like is the moronic injections they are hooked up to when they accelerate to speed, but I just have to ignore that.

Also in S4 they made Dominique Tipper as Naomi Nagata such a wimp and so stupid. They really screwed up her character. Still great characters like Alex and Amos tend to make up a little for it ... but still, it seems like they need to get some dedicated writers who know the world and characters better or they are going to crash and burn.

[–] Iffy762 (1334) 4 years ago

You make very good points. I actually have never seen Babylon 5 but I've seen many other scifi watchers say it was really good. I might check it out sometime. I agree that it is really fun when you have a show where you get more out of it the more you watch it. TV used to be written with a view to syndication, where there was an expectation that people would watch a show more than once (ie viewers might benefit from various little easter eggs designed to please the repeat viewer), so it makes sense to me that the people who make tv would keep some of those habits, even though everything has gone to streaming, where we binge-watch for a few weeks and then stop thinking about the show for another year (or, forever). I don't think it would be a bad thing for syndication to come back, and, with it, shows designed to be enjoyable more than once.

Drummer is one of my favorite characters, same with Ashford. I was sad that he left the show even though I really liked how they finished up his arc. You always knew he wasn't going to make it to the end of the series. Cara Gee, just fantastic, and her character is really interesting.

Completely agree re season 4, it was really slow. I seem to recall Bobbie's arc wasn't really in the book that S4 was drawn from, but of course they can't just tell the actor to wait around, unpaid and off-screen, till they get to season 5, so that maybe explains why she seemed to have not much to do.

I think the thing with Naomi goes back to the core conflict between the belters and everyone else. The belters were born and grew up in a low-gravity environment, and have been doing so for several generations so they are evolving in a different direction. S4 shows us that Naomi cannot really adapt to a planetary environment. She's doomed to always live in space, whether she wants to or not. So I think that is the essential tragedy of the belters.

[–] Iffy762 (1334) 4 years ago

And that is also about Naomi's relationship with [checks name] Holden*, and whether that is a relationship that is really sustainable. And that is a microcosm of the entire question of whether humans from different planets can really maintain bonds of loyalty with each other, and whether that will be possible once those planets are terraformed and so on. With the belters, they are evolving to be more and more different from humans, but are adapted to living in an environment that is incapable of independently supporting life without resources being brought in from planets. So the belters are almost evolving into a species vulnerable to slavery, and that is one of the interesting dilemmas on the show.

The problem, of course, is what's so great about Naomi is how strong she is, mentally, emotionally, and physically, so she spent the whole season out of character and it took away from what made her fun to watch.

*least interesting character on the show.

[–] brux (14840) 4 years ago

I don't mind the reality of Nagata, what I disliked was her stupid insistence on hiding her problems and being tough. My vision of her character would be that she is a tough pragmatist and if she cannot exert herself on the planet's surface she would accept that reality instead of endangering herself and others. That was not her character. Also the connections between Nagata and Holden seems very forced.

As far as what is in the book, I am a big fan of movies not trying to duplicate the book. Why do that since people who have read the books ( which I have not ) know what is going to happen? No, the moving picture medium is a different medium and requires a different focus than a book. And besides they never can duplicate the feeling of a book and what you see in your imagination as you read.

[–] Iffy762 (1334) 4 years ago

Very good points about Naomi. I agree that her relationship with Holden doesn't seem quite right somehow. Maybe the actors don't have chemistry? I'm not sure what it is. I think Holden himself is a rather boring character, so maybe that's part of it. He's a bit too earnest and do-gooder, whereas everyone else seems fairly cynical. Let's see, the name of their ship is the Rocinante, which is from Don Quixote, so maybe that's related (I never actually read Don Quixote so I'm just going by the wiki!)

[–] brux (14840) 4 years ago

I kind of like that the titular star of the show is not a bursting out egomaniac like Captain Kirk or the typical military leader. To me that works for Holden, but they don't write his part very well, and the relationship with Naomi is kind of a weak point. Also, that is doubled because Naomi is sick and she withholds the information from Holden. That doesn't make sense.

Then another aspect of the last season that seemed weird was how many curse words they jammed into Christen Avasarala's dialog. She was way over the top with her language. I didn't blame her husband for dumping her.

The only characters that were full on in line with the last season were Amos and Alex. And of course the small parts that Ashford and Drummer had that season. It was a real disappointment. I've see Cara Gee in some other things and she is really an amazing actress, I really like her.

[–] Iffy762 (1334) 4 years ago

agree on all those.