What is love to an atheist? - The Theory of Everything (2014) Discussion

[–] tain-5 10 years ago

And what exactly does a belief in spirits and deities have to do with love?

If it was about morality, then there could be more of question there (although, just as easily answered). Either way believers and nonbelievers are the same human beings with the same range of emotions, same urges, and love is more basic than the cultural phenomenon of religion. You could also think of it this way, a believer is an atheist when it comes to all other faiths/gods, an atheist just goes one step further (and that step is no harder to make then the other "thousand and one").

Another misconception is one of mysticism, that by understanding the physiology and psychology of love we demystify it and thus destroy it. Again, you don't have to be an atheist to do this. Understanding an emotion doesn't make it less real, just less mysterious. If that makes it worthless for you than that's your problem, but in no way does that apply to human beings in general.

It really is all about this hangup on mystery, the notion that something mysterious is inherently meaningful. It's not, the notion is completely baseless, want a more obvious example, look at modern art. For the same reason people oppose the demystification of their beliefs. After the veil of mystery and faux significance is lifted from an idea it has to stand on its own. In case of love, as an emotion, it does, in case of any concrete god, it does not. I hope that answered the "question" to your satisfaction.

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[–] jmichael3387 10 years ago

I believe all of you atheists when you say you love. But what I can't understand is how you can be truly happy if you believe that you and your loved-ones will be nothing but plant fertilizer in a few years. How is that not a depressing thought?? There's no way around that, no matter how much you talk about 'experiencing life', 'living for the moment', and all that. I see you guys as avoiding the issue. Putting up a mental-block so as not to have to deal with your near future as nothing but plant fertilizer. Those who say Christians have a mental illness....take note. You are the ones putting-up a mind-block in my opinion. I'm not saying this to be insulting. I just don't believe for a second that an atheist can truly be happy. Not with your upcoming future. Maybe deep-down you know you can still let God reach you in the future before you die or something. Or you're holding out hope that God will save atheists. Because that's the only way to not be depressed.

To those who wonder why believing in Jesus is the answer, rather than God simply rewarding 'good' people....that's for God to decide. We are not capable of understanding everything. Not believing in God because you don't like some of his rules is NOT the way to go about your thinking. God does not go by human rules. But his rules are not harsh either. Believe in Jesus, and that's it. Everything else will fall into place. Don't critique him so much. If you don't believe now, okay. Just pray or whatever and try to figure out what's correct. But don't shut him out without even trying because you're hung-up on worldly thinking.

And then there are those that say "no one knows if Christians are right or if Muslims right or whatever....so I'm not going to believe in anything". That's also the wrong way to approach it. Don't apply human hang-ups to your beliefs. Search for God first....then worry about why others don't believe.

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[–] archer1812 10 years ago

It would be totally depressing if there was no God. Or no afterlife. I'd be depressed every minute of my life if I believed that. Anyone who says different is just fooling themselves.

It's pretty clear from this comment that you fall squarely in the religion-as-a-crutch category. Whatever issues you have, or doubts, or insecurities, using religion (or drugs, or alcohol) as a crutch is not a good thing.

I can perhaps understand why some (believers and non-believers) might find the thought of no afterlife depressing to some degree. After all, we as a species are wired for self-preservation, and the concept of an afterlife is an extension of that. But the average, non-obsessive person doesn't give it much thought. Besides, the concept of no afterlife can be comforting.

But why do you find the thought of no God depressing? To me that's very odd.

But what I can't understand is how you can be truly happy if you believe that you and your loved-ones will be nothing but plant fertilizer in a few years. How is that not a depressing thought??

It just isn't depressing. Is just the way it is. At the risk of falling into cliches, is the circle of life. We live, hopefully a long, good, and satisfying life, then we die.

What I really find depressing is the Christian (particularly the evangelical and fundamental)take on this.

Let me ask you: Let's say that you're 'true christian' (nevermind the no true scotsman fallacy) who has accepted Jesus as your saviour etc. and is assured a place in heaven. Now, your wife and/your kids are good people, you love them as much as any husband and father can. But they are not very religious and haven't 'repented' or accepted Jesus as their saviour. And horror of horrors, your eldest an atheist. Now, according to your doctrine they'll be getting a one way ticket straight to the lake of fire. Doesn't matter how good they are. So how can you be happy at all believing that they're destined for hell? And once you die and go to heaven, how could you enjoy even one second of eternity seeing your loved ones being roasted, or impaled with hot pokers, or whatever perverted and sick tortures Christians imagined for hell? Wouldn't that be the real 'hell'?

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[–] galluslass 10 years ago

"I believe all of you atheists when you say you love. But what I can't understand is how you can be truly happy if you believe that you and your loved-ones will be nothing but plant fertilizer in a few years. How is that not a depressing thought?? There's no way around that, no matter how much you talk about 'experiencing life', 'living for the moment', and all that. I see you guys as avoiding the issue. Putting up a mental-block so as not to have to deal with your near future as nothing but plant fertilizer. "

But don't you see that, that is one of the reasons religion evolved/was invented. Because you need something to stop your fear of the unknown. It just makes you calm and feel better about life ( or death rather). It also was a means for others to control you by instilling the notion of God and the reward and punishment or what afterlife you went to depending if you obeyed the rules.

I wish sometimes I did believe and took reassurance in an afterlife for me or those I loved. But I just can't make myself believe just so possibly feel better. But like others, I'm not continually sad or depressed about it. It is what it is and you try and make peace with that and live a good life in this crazy wonderful world with crazy wonderful people.

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[–] jmichael3387 10 years ago

Atheists claim that there's nothing after death....but when you really question them, really pin them down....they seem to admit that they are just unsure what happens after death. They no longer say that there is nothing. They say that they are just ready for whatever happens. They leave the door open for the possibility of some sort of afterlife. That's what I've seen in this thread.

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[–] Massolit 10 years ago

For sure one of the most unreal and stupid questions I have ever seen in my life. And believe me "my intentions are not to offend". "I just want to hunderstand how your (very strange) mind works"..

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[–] SomeBlueDevil 10 years ago

Nature works in mysterious ways. Ever felt loved by an animal? Animals are of course 'atheists" by design, they don't grasp the concept of divine anything, it's not part of their consciousness. And yet, they clearly love. Even if they don't receive any in return.

Humans are also animals. The absence of a deity - real or imagined - has no relevance to the biological programming in all of us. We are wired to care and nurture, and feeling love is a reward for this behavior, a chemical reaction in the body that makes us feel good. It ensures that we procreate & survive.

Religion is not a vessel to love, it's a vessel to power - to control the masses.
The whole concept of belief is based on a simple reward/punishment system. Fear is one of the greatest motivators. It's quite clever, really.
If the only way for you to be a good and moral person and feel love is because you fear what happens after you die, you're living a selfish and dishonest life.

Most theists have no concept of what atheists are thinking and feeling, as you clearly demonstrate with your post.

Just because one doesn't believe in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus doesn't make spending time with family less enjoyable. The same holds true with death. Nobody, neither believer nor atheist - has the answer to the question what happens when we die.

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“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus
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[–] jmichael3387 10 years ago

Well it's clear there's a totally different mindset with atheists. But as for the specifics....yeah it seems some are holding-out hope that there really might be some kind of afterlife. But some seem to think there's not. That I'll never understand; how someone can be happy with having their life and consciousness completely end. I'll never understand being happy with that.

Also many atheists seem to put human conditions on God. Like God needs to follow our rules. Like we know better. Like if God doesn't make everything good immediately, then I'm not going to like him or respect him. That's a very wrong attitude to take.

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[–] Val_fly 10 years ago

Well it's kind of letting go of your ego, your "How could I, the unique special snowflake that I am, not go on forever?" feelings, and accepting that our lives are short and have no greater meaning in the Universe. Sure, it sucks, but then you deal with it. Self-preservation kicks in and you continue thinking about your life on a day-to-day basis, as you would usually. Simples.

Would it be interesting if there was an afterlife? Sure, I'd be super curious to discover it all, a new adventure, awesome! If there isn't any, I'll settle for all the adventure and fun I can get on Earth before I become plant fertiliser.

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[–] BethieBumface 10 years ago

We love things we can see, touch, smell, feel, experience. We love things that exist as they are. We love the same way anyone else loves; being atheists doesn't make us robots or non-human beings. We breathe, just like you do. We eat to survive. We love, same as everyone else. We don't need a deity to dictate that which we choose to love.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] carlgcarlson3 10 years ago

This entire conversation is irrelevant. It is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of a deity, multiple forms or a collective empowerment of omnipotence. Even if it was possible and for example such power did not exist, it does not mean that the anomalous or seemingly unquantifiable universe in its infinite possibilities didn't somehow in establishing sentient intelligence create an alter-dimensional dependency that supersedes death that obviously has yet be quantified.

Some irrational humanoid animals would like to label me an agnostic atheist and that's their prerogative. It makes little difference what you call logic.

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[–] carlgcarlson3 10 years ago

I still don't see how love has anything to do with hypothetical metaphysics. It's a biological weakness that occurs during human development. You weren't born with love. You didn't come out of the womb understanding its sociological intricacy. Nor is love quantifiable. It is an irrational emotional state derived from a complex hormonal and neurological cocktail produced by the body when one humanoid becomes socially or sexually dependent on another.

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[–] Godsbrokenpromise 10 years ago

I would imagine love to an atheist is EXACTLY the same as love to a religious person. What the hell does God have to do with loving another person? Are you saying love between atheists is inferior to love between christians, or hindu's because they don't think there's a God, what kind of stupid crap is that?

Basically what your saying is: "I believe in God, so my love is real, you don't, so what do you your love really is, cause it's not actually love, you need God for that... ridiculous stupid question bro.

I told her not to read it.
Read what?
The angry pajama people.

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[–] johncg25 10 years ago

What is love to a religious nutjob ?

Do you see how silly the question is ? It can go either way.

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