MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Imagine if Luke Skywalker got the Maveri...

Imagine if Luke Skywalker got the Maverick treatment instead.

posted 3 years ago by aavfreak (3399)
34 replies | jump to latest

Spoilers for Top Gun: Maverick

In the Top Gun Sequel, Maverick is the hero everyone needs and everyone wants. Sure he's flawed, but he is absolutely head and shoulders above even "the best of the best." It was so fantastic to see and so satisfying to watch.

I lifted this from a thread on that movie's board:
"in the hands of a different film maker..." (he puts an image of Rian Johnson up on the screen) "...Maverick probably would have been portrayed as some sad, decrepit old man, desperately trying to relive his glory days, before being put firmly in his place by some obnoxious, box-ticking fantasy figure, and finally coming to the conclusion that he was probably never really that good in the first place."

It's sad what happened to our beloved Luke, savior of the galaxy. Especially in contrast to what he could have become had he been given the ending he deserved.

Top Gun shows how it could have been done right - passing the torch to the next generation while still maintaining his legacy for one last time.

[–] WhereIsRent (1092) 3 years ago

That is spot on and exactly what I said to my friend after we saw Top Gun: Maverick.

I always felt that Luke should have been the one to duel and eventually defeat Snoke and thus conclude the 'Skywalker Saga' as they started calling it. Rey could have dueled Kylo Ren and won and then at the end of the film Luke could have died peacefully like Yoda did in Return of the Jedi.

Instead Luke was absolutely butchered as a character.

[–] melissah1982 (883) 3 years ago

I don't know why they had to kill him off at all. It was bad enough Han was killed, but he's wanted that since Jedi. Carrie Fischer was unfortunate but Luke could have lived. Perhaps even lived in peace. Hell, maybe Rey was the daughter he always wanted but could never have and they could have ended the movie with something like Luke saying 'I can be your family'.

Spoilers for Top Gun: Maverick. I had stayed away from plot details so when they almost kills Maverick in the film I really thought they did it. Had to pass the torch on and all that. Thank god they didn't. It was his movie after all. I am glad he survived and was able to find peace at the end of the film. I wish they had done this for Luke. Killing him off was such a forced plot point. I hated it. Maybe it's because he's my favorite character but there's ways to pass on the torch without such a dramatic story point.

But, over all, I agree. Luke deserved more. I get what they were attempting to do, but I didn't like it at all.

[–] JoWilli (21654) 3 years ago

"like Luke saying 'I can be your family'."

that would have been so much better and saying she is a Skywalker.

[–] ehewitt (48) 2 years ago

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[–] WhereIsRent (1092) 3 years ago

Spoilers for Top Gun: Maverick. I hadn't read plot details for the film but I'd heard Cruise say he wanted it to be a "feel good summer film" so I knew the ending would be uplifting and happy. It was a really great fake out death though and a great character moment for him.

Agreed about Luke though, even Mark Hamill said if they were going to kill him off at least don't do it until the final film. The Rise of Skywalker just felt so empty without Luke and even more so with Carrie's scenes just being deleted scenes from The Force Awakens awkwardly worked in. They could have changed it so Luke didn't die in The Last Jedi, especially after Carrie's passing a year before the film came out. TLJ is for me where Star Wars died and I don't consider it canon. I love The Mandalorian and the respect they're giving to Luke in that show and I wish they'd scrap the sequel trilogy from canon.

[–] ehewitt (48) 2 years ago

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[–] WhereIsRent (1092) 2 years ago

It's a good point you make and yeah when you watch the sequel trilogy it does almost seem like the legacy characters are just shoehorned in. Watching Andor now and the lack of fan service is really refreshing, it would be interesting if they'd gone in this direction with the sequel trilogy and set it long after Luke, Han and Leia's deaths and like you said keep the attention solely on the new characters and their story.

[–] ehewitt (48) 2 years ago

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[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

Weird, I remember Luke saving the remnants of the Resistance in this movie.

[–] aavfreak (3399) 3 years ago

That's not the entirety of the story and certainly not how he was presented in total.

[–] Guitar King (5116) 3 years ago

Disney bigots are ruining Lucas' male characters on purpose. First they did it to Han, then Luke, then Boba Fett, now Obi-wan. Every time they do it, they say "He's not da same guy he wuz before. DERP!" Disney bigots could learn from "Maverick" but they won't, they'll just label that movie toxic.

[–] LanceDance (1397) 3 years ago

You’d think Boba would be safe since he’s not white, but nope. They seem intent on ruining as many pre-Disney characters as possible, and even some Disney characters whose actors don’t go along with the narrative.

[–] melissah1982 (883) 3 years ago

This is why Maverick did it so much better. You can definitely tell the addition of the diversity but they did it in such a way that wasn't forced down your throat and obnoxious and it made complete sense considering we are seeing a 30 year transformation from a 1980s military to a 2020s military. No one had to play the 'strong independent woman' card....Phoenix was there, she was an equal, and had her rough hits just as much as the boys. And the one point where I completely thought they were going to do the 'girl is the bestest character and better than Maverick' bit (the dog fight/push-up scene), they didn't do it. The movie stayed true to the story without forcing current politics into it. It made it better and made me like all the characters more for it. You don't have to destroy/dumb down one character to make another on look better.

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 3 years ago

Disney's diversity pushes are obviously just bs. Look at Finn.

I actually really liked Finn in TFA, and was looking forward to seeing his character develop throughout the trilogy

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

Yes, they want to ruin the property they own. That's it.

[–] Guitar King (5116) 3 years ago

Keep mindlessly consuming new product with no critical thought, pretend SW fan.

[–] melissah1982 (883) 3 years ago

This is exactly how I felt when I watched Maverick last night. It didn't help that a majority of the plot was Star Wars...even a clip of the plane looked like an X-Wing at one point. But regardless, THAT is how a sequel made 33 years after the fact should have been made. I felt satisfied with the younger cast and would be very happy to see a movie about them. But they didn't have to shit on Tom Cruise's role either. he wasn't perfect in the first film and they just built on it in this film. In fact, I related to him more this time around. I loved the way the younger cadets interacted with him...at first calling him an old fossil and then being full on team mates with him. It sounds weird, but one of them (MAYBE the girl?) called him 'Mav' at one point and instead of feeling like 'how dare she call him that' if felt so easy and natural. I could only WISH the Star Wars films did this same thing.

And Maverick also did a great job is bringing in the fan service without making it overtake the whole film. Maybe the plot didn't have to be as beat for beat to the original (I feel it did this a little bit) but even then, I'm not complaining. It was easy to follow with great characters. I felt the stakes and I am eager for more, even if they don't do another one.

[–] WhereIsRent (1092) 3 years ago

Agreed, the film also never forgot who the protagonist is. It really is the story of "Where is Maverick at in life now?" and this should have been the approach for the Star Wars sequel trilogy in the "Where are Han, Luke and Leia at now?" sense. We should have been introduced to the new characters from their perspective.

Luke, Han and Leia should have all had a scene before we saw any new characters in The Force Awakens. Mark Hamill said something at Star Wars Celebration about how "These films aren't about Luke anymore" and I was just thinking "Why not?"

[–] ehewitt (48) 3 years ago

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[–] WhereIsRent (1092) 3 years ago

It's a fair point but the 9 film Star Wars saga is also referred to as the Skywalker Saga. The larger universe has evolved around it such as The Clone Wars, The Mandalorian etc but the saga films tell the story of the Skywalker family through the set of the three trilogies so I'd still expect at least Luke and Leia to have prominent roles in the third trilogy, heck even Disney said that IX was originally Leia's film before they had to rewrite it due to Carrie's passing.

When Disney were marketing The Force Awakens they let us know that it was the start of a third trilogy in the saga and this was going to be Episode VII and would bring back Luke, Han, Leia and Chewbacca as well as a host of new characters. Fair enough if you like the sequel trilogy and how the story went but I feel my expectations were set up to see Jedi Master Luke Skywalker kick some ass at some point throughout the trilogy. I would have had it be Luke was the secondary protagonist (like Obi-Wan is in the prequel trilogy) and his daughter (who would have been Rey) would have been the protagonist.

I didn't like that Luke had just become this depressed man who went into hiding and just wanted the Jedi to end. I don't think he'd give up, not whilst he still had Han, Chewbacca and Lando as friends, not whilst his sister Leia hadn't given up and was still fighting the First Order. It was insulting to the character and I think it was done on purpose because Kathleen Kennedy is all 'The Force is female' now which is fine, having a female Jedi protagonist I'm all good with but it doesn't mean you have to shit on Luke's character.

Also just in general I think the sequel trilogy is awful even J.J Abrams admitted Disney didn't have a plan. I can't obviously say this for certain but I think if they'd had Luke be more like how Maverick was portrayed in the Top Gun sequel like the OP has said then Episode VIII and IX would have both made over $2 billion at the worldwide box office.

[–] ehewitt (48) 2 years ago

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[–] ehewitt (48) 3 years ago

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[–] ehewitt (48) 3 years ago

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[–] WhereIsRent (1092) 3 years ago

"If you want Luke to be the same character as you want, just stick with the OT and watch it again and again until you can recite every line from every character off by heart."

I do and Return of the Jedi is the true ending to the saga for me, I don't consider the sequel trilogy canon. I'm sure Disney even know it could have gone better. They made $2 billion worldwide with The Force Awakens but then The Last Jedi makes about $700 million less which is a huge drop. Avengers: Age of Ultron in 2015 only made $100 million less than the first Avengers back in 2012 and that wasn't critically acclaimed like the first film was but it didn't do anything to divide the fanbase like The Last Jedi did. Then 3 years later Marvel release Avengers: Infinity War and it makes $2 billion, then a year later Avengers: Endgame becomes even more successful. Yet Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker, which should have been one of the most anticipated films of all time struggles to make even half of what The Force Awakens made 4 years prior. Yeah, I'd say they definitely messed up that trilogy and the box office results speak volumes.

[–] aavfreak (3399) 3 years ago

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this board is now dumber for having read it.

There's no reason that they had to sh*t on the character of Luke Skywalker the way they did. Maverick did it right, establishing the new generation while maintaining the legacy of the protagonist for one last time.

What does any of this have to do with what I said?

Then explain why Luke was in exile in The Force Awakens?
Why the whole plot of that movie revolved around finding a map that located the whereabouts of Luke?
Considering that movie even had that plot to begin with, and showed the lengths the other characters did to get it, it communicated quite clearly Luke was trying to figuratively and literally distance himself from everything around him. Otherwise there would have been no search to begin with.
Even the ending was left on an ambiguous note.
Red arrived on the planet Luke was hiding on with his lightsaber in hand, Luke responding with an expression that you aren't sure whether he's surprised his lughtsaber has returned or that someone has come with his lightsaber, or confused as to who is the person that is bringing their lightsaber back, or why their lightsaber is being returned. The next shot of Rey holding out her arm with Luke's lightsaber in hand, longer than usual, confirms this ambiguity as you aren't sure whether Luke will take his lightsaber or not.
This was in The Force Awakens. This showed Luke wasn't the same person in that movie as he was in the OT.
I cannot understand how this could not be seen by you or other people, when it was quite clear to everyone else that has a brain.

YOU might have WANTED this from Luke. But he was never going to be this in the sequel trilogy.

[–] Miyagido (2944) 3 years ago

Second

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) 2 years ago

the character of Luke was always ignore by fantards in favors of Han Solo. he always shit on and ignore. brianne johnson was just tapping into thats.

[–] aavfreak (3399) 2 years ago

[–] BOandBarbecue (204) 10 hours ago
the character of Luke was always ignore by fantards in favors of Han Solo. he always shit on and ignore. brianne johnson was just tapping into thats.

Such an excellent observation and grand contribution to the conversation.

[–] ehewitt (48) 2 years ago

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[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) 2 years ago

Correkt! Luke skywalker is most badly treated characters i can think of. nearly every fan shit on him. the true star war fans know that luke was great character and the true hero of saga, and mark hamil did very wells with performance, he is very underrate.

Luke is shit on because average star war fantard is nerdlinger, and they prefer han solo because he cool unlike them, they get to live through him vicarious, but Han is not hero of original sagas, luke is. Luke is more nuance character, more heart, more develop, but fantard ignore this because they dont understands story and character depths, just ‘muh cool space pirate with chewie sidekicks’. Harrison originally want Han killed in Jedi because he know character was not essentials unlike luke.

Feel sorry for mark hamil. He bring luke to life but Brianne Johnson shit on his character and get away with it because he know he have backing of most star war fantard. thats what they think of luke and mark hamil - see him as inferiors to Han, second fiddle. But if your real star war fan like me, you know Luke kick ass and do all cool things in star war, and he best character in saga, and Brianne Johnson suck balls.

[–] BOandBarbecue (2264) 2 years ago

Thank yous! Very kind words.

[–] ehewitt (48) 2 years ago

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[–] aavfreak (3399) 2 years ago

My post fit here the best, but I was referring to the trilogy sequels in general and not necessarily this specific movie. Luke could have been written to be the aging hero that still had more to show and teach, like Maverick, rather than the washed up hermit of little value that he was written to be.

[–] Martoto (5200) 2 years ago

Ha! Maverick certainly appeals to all the bros who are constantly looking for a new daddy.