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ehewitt (45)
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"Not sure why there was a need to make this".
This was made as an attempted reboot of the franchise, to make it more faithful to the style and tone of the games, which were more horror based than action based like the Milla Jovovich movies.
.....Also, by showing Joker terrorising Gotham, you're turning the character into the villain.
The audience wouldn't root for him. They'd see him in the way Harvey Dent saw Arthur in the actual movie that was made.
Plus, some members of the public and the media would view the movie as sending an irresponsible message; that any person with a mental illness ultimately leads to insanity. Demonizing people with mental illnesses.
This would be what your movie suggestion would be unintentionally saying. But this would be picked up by quite a large number of people.
The only way your suggestion would work is if Gotham is shown to be no different to the Joker, or the Joker has suffered throughout his years at Arkham, or is shown to have a worldview the audience can deem as logical. Therefore, the audience can understand why the Joker starts to terrorise the city. Otherwise, he's just the villain of his own movie. Not someone the audience can root for.
Fight Club would need to be the reference point. Otherwise, this wouldn't work.
All in all, your suggestion sounds like the plot only exists because you made it exist.
The Joker broke out of Arkham because the script needed him to do so for the plot to take place. Like there were no previous arkham riots in the previous 15 years, but this time he felt he needed to escape. Spending 1 to 15 years in
Arkham was OK, but spending a 16th is too much. It reads like plot convenience and plot contrivance.
A sequel with this storyline would have existed only because someone wanted to make a sequel. It does not read like a natural continuation. Just a sequel for a sequel's sake.
@bozo_500
Quite a few issues with some of what you've suggested.
Firstly, you cannot guarantee how much a movie makes at the box office. Therefore, you cannot say something "has a better chance at being a billion dollar hit" when this is just speculation on what you perceive or want, but not what the reality actually is. It is impossible to know for exact something will be a billion dollar hit unless you have the ability to see into the future.
A movie can be completely different or completely the same from the predecessor, but it still might not make a billion dollars. This idea of making another billion dollar hit is pointless, because it's outside the studios' and filmmakers control, and isn't really a target. The only reason you mentioned this is because the first movie made a billion. If it did not, you wouldn't have written the sentence you had.
Secondly, the plot suggestion has a few things fans of the 1st movie and general audiences would dislike.
By flashing forward 15 years to the late 1990s, you are showing a completely different Joker character. The Arthur from the 1st movie doesn't exist. Therefore, it's not a continuation from the 1st movie, but more a standalone Joker movie, which goes against the theme and style of the 1st movie, making it seem like your new movie suggestion is set in a completely different world. It begs the question, why bother caring about Arthur to begin with in the 1st movie when he is forgotten in the 2nd?
That would be deemed a disappointment by the fans. They would interpret your new movie suggestion as if it had been made by someone who didn't watch, care or understand the 1st movie.
Thirdly, the suggestion is generic. There's nothing special about the plot. Nothing to make it stand out from the other crime movies.
And the plot is a big plot hole. Joker escaping, but no police trying to find him, considering he killed someone on live TV? Someone they wouldn't just not try to find......
@DarthAckbar
Except, that plot would be one huge plot hole because at no time in the first movie did it imply Arthur could or would be someone who could lead a revolution.
Also, once he'd escape, he'd be chased by the police and other law enforcement agencies. There'd be no possibility for Arthur to even start a revolution, let alone lead one.
Finally, it would be a tonal shift from the 1st film, where it would become a chase movie. But the 1st film showed Arthur wouldn't be the type of person to escape Gotham, or last long if he was on the run.
He also didn't act as if he wanted to escape, based on the conversation he had with the psychiatrist at the end of the 1st movie.
@Toomer
The question is, how do you define what a "real" Joker sequel is?
Because if you don't have any idea yourself, you can't expect a "real Joker sequel" when you don't know what one looks like.
Also, what you might call a "real Joker sequel", someone else might not.
Finally, it doesn't matter if the movie is, from your perspective, not what anybody was expecting nor wanted, because that is just your opinion. Unless you've gone around and asked people yourself, you cannot say for certain whether this was "not what anybody was expecting nor wanted".
Also, a movie that is "not what anybody was expecting nor wanted" does not determine its quality.
There are plenty of movies that did something different, not what was expected nor wanted, but were of a good quality.
This phrase is something you have put onto the movie. It doesn't relate to its quality. It shows a level of entitlement you think you have when you actually have none.
You're making yourself sound like your opinion is fact, or more important than someone's that disagrees, but in fact, your opinion is just your opinion. It has the same weight as someone whose opinion is different.
If you want a "real Joker sequel" as you said, define what one looks like, otherwise you're just speaking hot air.
@Headspace928377
Not really.
The audience you're talking about are only the people who determined or decided they had been antagonized, which only exists in their heads.
And?
@ReelReviews14
You mean what YOU and you only have been saying since 2008.
The fallout?
Very few, if any, future comic book movies that take a grounded or experimental approach, challenge the viewer, or are anything different from the lightweight PG-13 movies popularised by Marvel and used by DC after BvS.
This is more likely what WB will interpret from the poor box office. Nothing to do with quality.
What has happened with this movie has now given the studios ammunition to carry on making the comic book movies they usually make.
Using this as an example that R rated comic book movies do not sell, unless they are funny.
It wouldn't surprise me if the people at Marvel and Disney, behind the scenes, use this movie as proof why they make the movies the way they do.
And again, nothing to do with quality. But tone and rating.
One would also not think about whether a movie is worth a look if it made a billion dollars, if one looks at the trailer and determines it is not suitable for them.
If one knows movies that were Oscar winners were limited in their theatrical run because the theaters knew there was less chance of them making money than something from a well known franchise or genre, limiting the number of showings that Oscar winner had during its run, one would determine box office is not synonymous with its quality.
If a movie theater had the option to play a Star Wars movie or There Will Be Blood at different showtimes throughout the day, they'd choose the Star Wars movie without a seconds hesitation.
They'd have showtimes for the Star Wars movie at every hour in more than one screen, and show There Will Be Blood possibly twice. Late in the evening and late at night. For about three or four days. A whole week if its lucky. But no longer than that.
That is how theaters work. It is not a level playing field. Theaters actually choose which movies to show, and when and for how long, based on what they know will be popular.
And most films that are Oscar winners are for more of a niche audience. Not for the multiplexes, where the Marvel movies, other superhero movies, Star Wars and the big budget studio movies are shown.
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