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The Last Jedi is the film The Force Awakens apologists deserve


https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/955ray/the_last_jedi_is_the_film_the_force_awakens/

"Hate to have to put it that way but it needs to be said.

You wonder why TLJ was so bad? Why would Disney even bother trying to make a coherent film after the vast majority of Star Wars fans decided to collectively give TFA a pass despite its many fatal flaws?

Let's just remind ourselves what TFA did for Star Wars:

Reduced a galaxy wide conflict to 12 x-wings vs yet another Death Star.

Wipes out everything the heroes accomplished in IV - VI.

Reduces Han Solo to a senile buffoon who gives up on his own family, leads the FO to BB8, and dies while trying to give a genocidal maniac a hug during a commando raid.

Turns Luke into a Macguffin in his own saga.

Introduces Rey, the Maryest Sue to Sue them all.

Introduces Finn, who flips from PTSD suffering shock trooper, to gleeful comrade murdering traitor, to sub Martin Lawrence comedy sidekick in 20 minutes flat.

Introduced Kylo: a guy who is evil because he worships Vader. Despite Vader turning to the light. Despite force ghosts being shown to be able to communicate with the living. (Anikin has no problem turning up and chilling out at his own funeral but can't be bothered to spend 10 seconds telling his grandson that cool kids don't do genocide).

Gives the cast from the OT exactly zero seconds of screen time together.

I could go on...

Every mistake TLJ made (shrinking universe, ignoring lore, bad characters, misplaced humour etc) stems directly from TFA and the only reason it feels like a worse movie is because so much of the fans' goodwill had to be expended in convincing themselves TFA wasn't the travesty it so clearly was.

Let's dispel the notion that TFA 'needed to happen this way'. It didn't, the story could have gone in 1000 different ways and literally nobody wanted a reboot until after TFA came out.

Let's dispel the notion that TFA 'set up story lines'. It set up nothing - all it did was demand its sequel fix the holes in its own plot.

Let's dispel the notion that JJ Abrams managed to capture the 'spirit of Star Wars'. If it felt like Star Wars it's because it had the original cast acting out a syfy standard mockery of ANH.

If TFA got the reception it so richly deserved then maybe, just maybe, Lucasfilm would have changed direction so that we got an episode VIII fit to bear the Star Wars logo. But it didn't. And so here we are. With JJ 'I am become death, the destroyer of beloved Sci-Fi franchises' Abrams at the helm. Can't wait!"

Took the words right out of my mouth, although I would say that far more egregious than turning Luke into a pointless Macguffin was erasing his accomplishments & making him a failure who went AWOL.

JJ Abrams put Luke on that island in the middle of nowhere, having deserted his friends and family and the Republic for 20 years, allowing the threat of the First Order to rise unchecked. That's ALL JJ Abrams. This forced Rian Johnson to explain 'why' & the Luke he presented was a plausible conclusion based on the garbage that Jar Jar Abrams established with Luke in TFA.

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I agree, I could never figure out the adulation and love that TFA got, I thought it was a HORRIBLE movie.

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And you thought right

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I think someone needs to Tenet back to 2013 with these fuckin movies and sort this entire mess out

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Only that Tenet made it quite clear: history cannot be re-written ;)

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TFA was a good way to start the new trilogy , hence why its rated high by most that watched it, TLJ was made by someone that didnt understand star wars and was utter garbage, TFA set up what could of been a good movie, but instead Ruin Johnson decided to create his own indie star wars movie, facts.

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No. i'm afraid your steadfast refusal to see the severe fundamental problems with JJ's hack job writing in TFA is exactly why you deserve TLJ.

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So because I enjoyed TFA I deserve a shit Star Wars movie? You guys are fucking weird

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Don't feed the trolls.

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"So because I enjoyed TFA I deserve a shit Star Wars movie? You guys are fucking weird"

No. You're entitled to enjoy whatever poorly written clusterf*ck of a movie you like but you TFA fans who showered it with heaps of praise simply reaped what you sowed with it.

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it wasnt a cluster fuck though, it made 2.2 billion , was highly praised by critics and audiences, you are the minority

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A movie making a lot of money has no bearing on it being a terrible clusterf*ck" hype job of bought off shill critics, and fan boys blinded by hype & nostalgia that didn't last. TLJ got even greater praise from shill critics btw. Like I said you fan boys reaped what you sowed by celebrating a terrible film & atrocious foundation for a trilogy being made up on the fly.

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Don't get upset , its a good movie , check out the audience score, best get a box of tissues, the high rating will make you cry

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Sorry but you're stuck in 2015-2016. Most TFA apologists from that time have largely come to their senses since then. TFA is trash but again I'll never tell anyone that they can't like shitty movies.

Edit: Oops. Forgot I was dealing with someone whose pro TFA arguments quickly devolve into "Uh Huh / Nuh Uh"

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Its not trash, you just don't like it

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The first 10-15 minutes of TFA was good. All downhill from there.

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A good chunk of the damage was done with the opening crawl alone. If we're going to ignore that though I even thought the first 15 minutes were pretty nonsensical with characters behaving in ways that make no sense. It's soon after Finn meets Rey though where the absolute sh*t factor gets rapidly dialed up to 11.

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Get a life.

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My god that was a good -- no excellent -- summary of TFA. Thanks for sharing (though it momentarily made me relive the trauma induced by the film).

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Yeah, this sh*t was sh*t. It was so bad that I walked out when the giant CGI monsters that Solo was shipping showed up, but I seriously wanted to walk out sooner. What was it 45-50 minutes before any of the original cast showed up? Rey was unlikable, Poe was bland, Fin was illogical, and Kylo was all My Chemical Romance emo. It was a poorly written movie, and it dissuaded me from seeing any of the others until they came to netflix. Disney will never get another dollar out of me. Oh, and I don't have netflix either I watched it at a family members house. netfix is another evil corporation that will never get another dollar out of me either.

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But you still watched them... so I gues Disney won... even though you claim to have saved a couple of $

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They never got another dollar out of me. So, in the long run they lost. Do you understand the most important thing in business is? Is it winning once? Or is it losing every day for the remainder of your existence? In business every dollar counts. I know, I have run two successful businesses, each for over 20 years. Everyone of us samples things, and if we decide that we don't like something we vote with our wallet- and in business- it's RETURN business that is the most important thing. The long term/ return profit is where the money is.

To be honest the only reason that I went to see TFA in theaters was because the Zeigfeld theater in NYC was closing. It had been open since 1927, and I wanted to go there one last time before it was gutted. Sadly, the final film they were showing was TFA. So, I didn't really have a choice.

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I am sure you have watched a lot of Disney stuff... you just don't know I was Disney... they own almost everything these days...

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To be honest, I don't watch modern movies. I have a huge (and no I am not kidding) collection of VHS tapes that I bought at yard sales, and thrift stores. So, unless something pops up on free TV (via my antenna)I don't watch it. I don't have Netflix or any other type of streaming service. I find that most modern movies are mostly brainless, agenda pushing, racist and sexist. So, I stopped watching. To be honest I stopped paying attention to modern films back in 2007 before the agenda was so out in the open. Even back then everything had the same formula, or a variation upon it that I had already seen 100s of times before. Some bad guy wants to take over the world, and the hero stops them- rinse off and repeat. Someone has a mental breakdown, seeks help, and either gets better via a love interest, or dies a tragic ending- rinse and repeat. Or perhaps a historical drama about a historical person that is barely historically accurate. Then there's the never ending non stop super hero garbage. I've seen it all before, and I simply lost interest. Sure I am sure that I have seen disney stuff somewhere, but the last time I paid for it was back when TFA came out ( as I explained in my previous post). To me, as a creative company they have failed. So, I will not give my money to a failure of a company. They lost me as a customer. If you don't understand that, I can't explain it any better than I already have.

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So you never go to the cinema... you just watch TV and old VHS tapes?

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That's about right. I think the last movie I saw in theaters was Creed. The scenes with Stallone were great, the times that he wasn't in the film were boring. I'm probably going to go to see The Downton Abbey movie though. I will have no idea what it's about, but it was one of my mom's favorite shows before she passed. So, I'm going to go see that for her. As for VHS tapes I actually archive old tapes. I have thousands of hours of old VHS tapes that I put to DVD dating back to the early 1970s. I find it more rewarding to watch and preserve older stuff than to pay attention to modern stuff. I find modern culture to be immature, lacking of emotional depth, and frustrating on all fronts. I know, I know, I am an odd ball, but I can live with that. You can make fun of me if you want. I am completely cool with that, and completely understanding of my oddness :)

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I do not wish to make fun of you... and I see where you are coming from... I still think you are missing out on some good new stuff... even though I agree that a lot of crap are produced these days...

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...point(s) taken lol.

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Reduces Han Solo to a senile buffoon who gives up on his own family, leads the FO to BB8, and dies while trying to give a genocidal maniac a hug during a commando raid

LMAO I'm dead

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