Philip and Elizabeth. Are you rooting for them, against them or
neutral ?
shareI'm rooting for them, but not for them to continue living their present lives. I hope they will contribute their considerable talents to a worthier cause than espionage.
I don't have any particular urge to see them caught and punished. They aren't sociopaths, and their lifestyle has already entailed punishment enough. The job is its own punishment.
They aren't sociopaths
Humiliate? Are we watching the same show?
They manipulate, yes - as part of their work. That isn't the same as being manipulative. Philip at a minimum definitely feels trapped in his life and they both demonstrate on many occasions that they detest what they feel they have to do. They have empathy. That is what I meant when I said they aren't sociopaths (and I really don't care whether that's a medical term - it is a widely understood one).
I think your analysis is way off, and the idea that I could "fall for them" is just laughable, since as the relatively omniscient viewer I get to see all their vulnerabilities. I'm not their mark. I don't even exist in their universe. You're being silly.
They aren't sociopaths
Im rooting for them. I'm not American so, while they have done some terrible stuff, I don't see them as being any worse than the spies of any country. Including the US.
totally rooting FOR them! 😀
shareI watched the first 2 seasons and about a third of season 3 but stopped b/c of how much I found myself despising both sides.
I couldn't root for the Russians b/c of the brainwashing I experienced by growing up in the 80's, and even if I didn't have an instinctive revulsion to all things Russian, the two spies are despicable enough on their own to dislike immensely.
Stan's character being written as an imbecile, so he wouldn't figure out his neighbors were the people he was looking for, got aggravating too. Not to mention his moronic affair with the pretty Russian embassy worker.
I really wanted to like this series too. I don't normally have any problem with a negative portrayal of the FBI or CIA, having read enough about both to know they were/are littered with people who'd do anything for career advancement, who were probably sociopaths, and/or were just stupid.
One minute rooting the next against and so on. The show does very good in avoiding hating them at once even though all the horrible things they do. Same with Beema, Nina, Oleg. Everybody.
And I thought Bloodline had ambiguous characters.
100% for them. 
It's strange - they are cold blooded killers, who are ostensibly the "bad guys", but I still root for them. Mainly Philip. He seems to have much more of a conscience.
You have to remember - the US has spies who do the exact same thing, in other countries.
the US has spies who do the exact same thing
Need I say more than Allende and the consequences: September 11, 1973 - March 11, 1990?
Oh, okay
shareOh, okay
shareMainly Philip. He seems to have much more of a conscience.
ABC news
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82588&page=1
National security archive
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm
The NSA summarises some of the information in the documents as follows:
- CIA memoranda and reports on "Project FUBELT"--the codename for covert operations to promote a military coup and undermine Allende's government. The documents, including minutes of meetings between Henry Kissinger and CIA officials, CIA cables to its Santiago station, and summaries of covert action in 1970, provide a clear paper trail to the decisions and operations against Allende's government
- National Security Council strategy papers which record efforts to "destabilize" Chile economically, and isolate Allende's government diplomatically, between 1970 and 1973
I have to admire the (retrospective) openness of the US government and to admit to a large part in the toppling of a country's elected government
Yes, there was unrest because of shortages but it's clear that if the largest economy on Earth is trying to destabilise your economy it will be made unstable. It's also clear that the oligarchs in the Chilean military would not have acted if they had not had the (tacit) support from the USofA
What we see on 'The Americans' is child's play. Philip doesn't really get it. Elizabeth is fighting for her country's life. A country, incidentally, which was in the 1980s close to collapse
From your own first source:
"The CIA admits prior knowledge of the plot that overthrew Allende three years later but denies direct involvement. The report says the agency had no idea that Allende would refuse safe passage with his palace under bombardment and apparently kill himself. He was found dead of gunshot wounds."
I should hope the CIA knew. That's its job. But knowing about something isn't the same as being the one doing it. The US had toyed with the idea of a coup, but decided against it. In fact the declassified documentary evidence confirms that the CIA wasn't involved in the coup.
The "National Security Archive" (which is an activist group, not an official government repository) always puts a leftist, sensationalist, anti-American spin on things. Of course the US opposed Allende. He was a Marxist **itbag. It also opposes Kim Jong Un, Hugo Chavez, and lots of other world leaders. Other governments often oppose the US government. Lots of people around the world openly criticize certain US politicians and join or fund efforts to defeat them. So what?
Here's a more informative article with greater context from the other side:
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=15648
As for allegedly "destabilizing" Chile's economy, an official or two spouting a grand phrase in a closed brain storming strategy session doesn't necessarily translate into reality. The US didn't take anywhere near the economic action that it did against...say Cuba, for example (countries have a perfect right to cease trading with another nation, btw), not to mention the assassination attempts against Castro (which unfortunately failed). No embargo was placed on Chile. Trade continued. In fact the US continued to give foreign aid and forgive Chilean debt during Allende's reign. Washington didn't even punish Chile when it nationalized (aka stole) American owned copper industry property there in 1971, which it would have had a perfect right to do.
You can't honestly blame the US for Allende running his own country into the ground the way socialism does every time it's tried.
Comparing the US basically just rooting against a socialist leader, mostly from the sidelines, with P and E murdering scores of innocent people and spying to advance the interests of one of the most oppressive totalitarian regimes in history is asinine. Heck, in real life the Soviet Union did far worse to the US than the US did to Allende's Chile. The USSR certainly wasn't giving America humanitarian aid or forgiving our debt. Neither was Chile for that matter. Chile was stealing American property, not the other way around.
Comparing the US basically just rooting against a socialist leader
What next, you're going to say the US wasn't involved in Vietnam or Afghanistan either?
As to OP's question, I'm mostly rooting for Elizabeth and Phillip (I'm neither American nor Soviet/Russian btw, as disclaimer. Or Chilean or Vietnamese or Afghan, or from a NATO country or from a former USSR satellite state.)
Of course I'm not comparing them. I was just amused by your claim of the US simply "rooting for" a non-socialist leader. The CIA itself says they were involved in Chile and in over-throwing Allende, so I don't know why you'd deny it. I was just wondering how far this denial went, hence I asked you a (rhetorical and sarcastic) question on your thoughts re: Vietnam and Afghanistan. https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/chile/#5
It doesn't sound like you care much about totalitarianism versus free democracy either, as the Cold War was an ideological struggle, and not just about nationalistic differences.
Of course I'm not comparing them.
I was just amused by your claim of the US simply "rooting for" a non-socialist leader. The CIA itself says they were involved in Chile and in over-throwing Allende, so I don't know why you'd deny it.
It doesn't sound like you care much about totalitarianism versus free democracy either, as the Cold War was an ideological struggle, and not just about nationalistic differences.
I know quite a bit about the Cold War, although I missed most of it due to not having been born. My grandma was born in the USSR as part of an "enemy of the state" minority before fleeing, so I'm in no way ignorant on the reality of Soviet life.
But I don't agree that the US version of capitalism and lack of welfare state is the best way to ensure "freedom" of its people or the world at large either.
There are things between passively "rooting for" and being 100% responsible for something. For example, the US contributed to the rise of religious fundamentalism in the Middle-East by financing the Mujahideen, but I'd never say the US "founded ISIS" or something as stupidly simplistic as that.
Are you seriously saying I'm biased towards Russia rather than the US because Stalin killed or sent to Siberia some of my relatives? Yes, that makes all the sense in the world.  I'm from Finland (one of those "soft welfare socialist states" or whatever you called them) - Reporters Without Borders ranks us #1 in the world in freedom of press. I'm lucky to not have been subjected to much propaganda. If you know anything about Finland though, I can safely say we're not the biggest fans of the Soviet Union, and there's definitely tons of anti-Russian sentiment even in the mainstream media.
You're reaching, and need to check your own propaganda intake. Are you able to objectively look at the United States, or is American exceptionalism something you've heard your whole life about and just assume must be true? I'm not really criticizing you if it is, because all countries do that. My own country and all the rest of the Nordics rank very highly in everything (human development, happiness, education, lack of corruption, above-mentioned freedom of press blah blah blah) and the media will not let us forget that.
Also, why is it so important to you how other countries conduct their affairs? Live and let live. (Barring serious violations of human rights, of course.)
Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.
There are things between passively "rooting for" and being 100% responsible for something.
For example, the US contributed to the rise of religious fundamentalism in the Middle-East by financing the Mujahideen,but I'd never say the US "founded ISIS" or something as stupidly simplistic as that.
Are you seriously saying I'm biased towards Russia rather than the US because Stalin killed or sent to Siberia some of my relatives?
I'm from Finland (one of those "soft welfare socialist states" or whatever you called them) - Reporters Without Borders ranks us #1 in the world in freedom of press. I'm lucky to not have been subjected to much propaganda.
My own country and all the rest of the Nordics rank very highly in everything (human development, happiness, education, lack of corruption, above-mentioned freedom of press blah blah blah) and the media will not let us forget that.
Are you able to objectively look at the United States, or is American exceptionalism something you've heard your whole life about and just assume must be true?
Also, why is it so important to you how other countries conduct their affairs? Live and let live. (Barring serious violations of human rights, of course.)
I can't wait for them to get caught. I like Phillip but Elizabeth, not so much. And I'm at the episode right now where she drugged the Korean guy and is now taking off his clothes. His wife has been nothing but nice to her, and it seems she's bent on destroying them for what reason I haven't a clue. It seems she things he might know something, but even Phillip told her to let it alone and to tell the Centre that they failed. But failure does not seem to be an option for her. She'd rather mash up the family to get what she wants, yet look how protective she is of her own family. She was even willing to kill Pastor Tim to protect her own family, yet she seems hell-bent on destroying Young Hee's. I did like her a little but now I'm liking her even less.
Teenage love affairs are about intensity, not longevity
HaHa
I think you've got a long wait :)
They didn't catch "the illegals" until 2010!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/anna-chapman
Thanks for the link. Interesting info.
As this is a TV show hopefully it won't take as long. lol
Teenage love affairs are about intensity, not longevity
100% rooting and that's not going to change no matter what happens on the show
share