MovieChat Forums > The Americans (2013) Discussion > Philip and Elizabeth. Are you rooting fo...

Philip and Elizabeth. Are you rooting for them, against them or


neutral ?

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For them. Since I'm not American, I don't feel biased about what they're doing against the citizens of the USA. Even if I may not condone it, I accept that that's what spies do in order to protect their country, whatever their nationality. Their death toll is neglectable compared to the number of innocents killed in a single day of any bombing-for-freedom campaign.

Fighting a religious war is like fighting over whose imaginary friend is better.

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-that- is precisely the perspective that Americans (I am one) don't see, because we are not presented with the casualties of American policy.

we are presented a narrative which condemns our current bogeyman, be it Russia, China, N Korea, Afghanistan, Pakistan, N Vientnam, Iraq, Iran, Nicaragua, Cuba, Palestine, the list goes on.

we are inundated with -those- nations atrocities over and over and over while our and our allies' own atrocities (always, and i mean always greater in extent than any adversary) are ignored. the effect is a black hat nation thinking it is the misunderstood good guy. we are not misunderstood, we are not the good guy.

if anyone wants to contend on that question of relative carnage, have at it.

back to the thread - phil is a likeable killer, elizabeth less so - but they are the heroes. they are the most talented, intrepid folks on the horizon. there is something very awesome about being that talented, manipulative, ruthless, adept.

stan better get on the stick, he's going to look real stupid when they found out his best civilian buddy is a Russky spy. A knock-down drag-out between them will be something to behold.

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Against, because communism is evil and its propagation by the Soviet Union in the last century resulted in over a hundred million deaths and the impoverishment and oppression of over a billion people. I root for them to fail in their missions just as I would if it was a show with Nazi protagonists.

Regarding the KGB couple, I'm rooting for either capture, death, or defection, not them getting away.


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[deleted]

What a bundle of stupidity that post was. I guess you've never met an American Indian, or you'd know they weren't "wiped out".

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[deleted]

How much are left from the original population?

Probably none, unless they're extremely old.
Next thing you'll tell me is that they handed over their land to European conquerors by free choice as a welcome gift and decided to live in reservations.

Next you'll be telling me that all the tribes lived in peace and harmony for millennia before the evil white man showed up, never fighting each other or displacing tribes from conquered territories. You'll tell me they built an advanced, thriving civilization rather than living indefinitely at a neolithic stage of technological development that left many tribes in the central and western portion of the continent living on a near starvation diet. You'll tell me none of them practiced slavery or human sacrifice, and they all treated their women with dignity. You'll say they never murdered any white settlers or tried to exterminate the original American colonies. You'll claim they didn't habitually torture and mutilate victims in unspeakably gruesome ways to terrorize others, keep trophies like scalps and other body parts, or rape women and kill and enslave children. You'll deny that virtually every war the US fought against particular Indian tribes saw other tribes fighting as American allies against their Indian rivals. You'll continue to assert that all American Indians over the centuries should be lumped together and treated as a single aggrieved party.

You'll insist that 10...no...50 million Indians once lived in what's now the United States, happy and free, despite most of it being dubbed "The Great American Desert" by early European explorers, and that the US government systematically murdered all these people, as opposed to the notion that what depopulation did occur was caused by hemisphere wide pandemics spread unwittingly by Spanish colonists and mostly happened long before the US was founded in 1776. You'll certainly dismiss trivial things like historical documentation showing the total casualties from Indian wars topping out in the low thousands as "obvious white man propaganda". You'll similarly reject the notion that the US government had a policy of assimilating Indians for pretty much its entire history, far from wiping them out, and that the relocations to reservations were for those who wanted to continue to live in tribal entities rather than become US citizens, tribal entities that had often proved a serious threat to legitimately concerned frontier settlers with no 9-11 to call to protect their family from horrific deaths when a hostile Indian war party appeared on the horizon.

At the very least I bet my prediction is closer to the truth than yours is.




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[deleted]

I guess someone wasn't confident in his posts.

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[deleted]

Hey, sometimes I slum. If anything's creepy it's you being more worried about going through my posting history instead of just responding to the facts and arguments I posted in straight up, honest fashion.

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[deleted]

I think Philip can do better. Look at all the women that have fallen for him. Why he picks the one who loves him least is beyond me.

Random Thoughts: http://goo.gl/eXk3O

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I'm rooting for them... to defect. Mostly I'm just rooting for Paige. Elizabeth is a mindless drone who just follows 90% of what the KGB tells her. Philip has more character, but it doesn't stop him from killing a young cook in a restaurant kitchen and then continuing his job. He does at least show remorse, and a desire to quit (especially in this episode).

Paige is the character I am rooting for the most. She's in a bad situation. It annoys me to see so many on this board get on her for so much, considering she has the best moral sense of any character on this show.

(\___/)This is Bunny! Put him on your
(='.'=)signature to help him gain
(")_(")world domination

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I actually view if differently. Elizabeth does what she does because she believes. She's a patriot. Phillip does what he does because it's easier than any of the other options. To me, that makes Elizabeth a better person than Phillip.

But I do agree with you about Paige. It's kinda disturbing seeing the level of hate she gets on this forum.

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I disagree that being a murdering idealist is preferable, but you make an interesting point. The thing is that Philip understands he has dependents who would be in great danger should he not comply with the orders.

(\___/)This is Bunny! Put him on your
(='.'=)signature to help him gain
(")_(")world domination

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That's difficult. I see them as human, just on the opposite side. They're grey to me.

I see Phillip as possibly getting out of the business. He's obviously not happy. Elizabeth is more hardcore... she will probably stay to the end.

I guess I am neutral, if I had to pick a stance.

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I am rooting for something awful some terrible comeuppance to happen to Gabriel and Elizabeth who are the most evil characters in this story. Everyone else has a good side to their evils and some sense of remorse, a bit of conscience, but these two are really just fanatical robots with no empathy whatsoever. Total psychopaths. The show is excellent though, I really enjoy and would like it to go on forever...

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Mostly for. But obviously this is a show made for American audiences so ultimately it has to portray them negatively.

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So yeah, that's how I feel anyways

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I am mostly against, I suppose.
I find myself empathizing with them as a family, but then they go ahead and do or say something horrible that reminds me why communism is such a sh!t concept.
In the end, I want them to either turn against the KGB or get cornered and gunned down (at least Elizabeth).
Btw, how the heck does that travel agency make a profit? It seems they spend most of their lives leaving a bunch of corpses laying around.

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I haven't been able to fully figure out the travel agency. Is the entire agency a KGB shell company?

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