Lol so Logan does not count now? Hugh Jackman is the lead not the little Mexican girl.
It's the end of a trilogy, not the start of a new one. And they made it pretty clear he was being replaced with X-23 (not sure where they stand now that Disney owns the property). But Logan was a farewell tour for the character, basically as a sayonara to the franchise.
Avengers Endgame is an ensemble but it stars several straight buff white males. It has Captain America, and Thor. I also did not mention Guardians movie which the main star is Chris Pratt.
Ensemble movies like Avengers and Guardians are just that, ensemble movies. You have a buff, straight-white male but he's not really carrying the picture heroically like back in the 80s or 90s, like Commando, Rambo, The Specialist, Speed, Invasion USA, Cyborg, or countless other films.
In ensemble films everybody has to do their part for their participation award. I'll give you an example of a film starring a buff, straight white dude in a badass role that DIDN'T go to theaters: Extraction. Those are the kind of films we rarely ever get anymore, especially theatrical releases on a large scale.
You said buff white male protagonist. I gave you one in some of the films listed mainly Logan.
Yes, from four years ago, which was a franchise-ender. Thanks for proving my point.
There is also Karl Urban's Judge Dredd from Dredd.
From nine years ago. Thanks again for further proving my point.
There is also the Expendables which I think are terrible films but in the end made good money and star several buff white protagonists.
Those are excellent films, and only exist because Stallone produced them and WILLED them into existence, but Expendables 3 came out seven years ago.
Mad Max Fury Road
Except Max wasn't even the main character in his own movie.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
So since it was the end of a franchise it does not count got it.
Yep things go through trends in Hollywood that is life buddy. Remember when wearing black trench coats was cool? The 90's and early 2000's, Face Off Blade, The Matrix, Blade 2, The Matrix Reloaded, Underworld etc. That trend is over, I liked that trend but unlike you I am mature enough to realize that things go through trends. Do I like all of them? Nope but that is life man.
Four years is rather recent lol. So okay then.
The Expendables are excellent films? Wow I did not think your taste in cinema could get worse but wow I guess I was wrong! The Expendables is absolute garbage! It is a nostalgia bait film that banks off of star power to sell tickets. Every expendables film got outclassed by other action movies the same year they were released. In 2010 Scott Pilgrim vs the World, 13 Assassins. In 2012 The Raid, Dredd, The Avengers, and The Dark Knight Rises, in 2014 Edge of Tomorrow, Captain America the Winter Soldier, The Raid 2, and John Wick. I know you do not care about critics so I will reference users. Every single one of those films absolutely destroyed all those films when measured by the users. Even when factoring in your favorite Metacritic. Every single one of those films got better critical acclaim and acclaim by users. Expendables is a garbage franchise! I love stuff like that if it is well done. Predator, Die Hard is all great not that it is trash.
If you also checkout the user reviews most helpful on imdb you will see it is loaded with bad scores. Seriously I am asking you what makes those films excellent? The action is uninspired, generic flat and just flat out bad. The use of blood explosions is awful the shootouts are completely forgettable and it is filled with cringe worthy dialogue. Then to top it off they make the third one pg-13! Yeah a movie starring gritty action heroes we really want a pg-13 rating. It is a damn joke that a movie with Michael Cera Scott Pilgrim Vs the World as the lead had better staged action sequences than a movie with that ensemble of action heroes. You have to honestly try to fail that miserably. Although honestly not surprising you would like it. A mostly white cast with guys acting macho and MANLY! Which for you makes it an immediate 10/10. The funny thing is that is not even a good version of that type of idea. You want that watch any 80's movie such as First Blood, Robocop, Predator, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Commando, Mad Max Road Warrior etc. All those absolutely put Expendables to shame.
He is the protagonist of the film.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
So since it was the end of a franchise it does not count got it.
Are there going to be anymore movies? Is the character coming back? Like a lot of other media, the movie ended like it was passing the torch from Wolverine to X-23, much like in a bunch of other media where the straight-white male is replaced or succeeded by a female.
I liked that trend but unlike you I am mature enough to realize that things go through trends. Do I like all of them? Nope but that is life man.
Fashion trends aren't the same as demographic replacement. Those are two completely different things.
The Expendables is absolute garbage! It is a nostalgia bait film that banks off of star power to sell tickets.
That's exactly why I like those films. For people who enjoyed 80s/90s action heroes, it's the last movie trilogy of its kind that offers us those kind of heroes, with the exception of under-the-radar stuff like Xtremo and Extraction, which I mentioned before.
Seriously I am asking you what makes those films excellent? The action is uninspired, generic flat and just flat out bad.
The Expendables 2 had pretty good action sequences, especially the opening sequence, the battle in the town, the airport shootout, and Van Damme and Stallone's fight (it wasn't fantastic but it was entertaining enough).
The use of blood explosions is awful the shootouts are completely forgettable and it is filled with cringe worthy dialogue.
There's a lot of cool bad-action one-liners and throwbacks to 1980 films, which I enjoyed. I do agree the CGI blood was awful, and they should have just stuck with classic squibbing. Nothing beats squibbing.
Then to top it off they make the third one pg-13! Yeah a movie starring gritty action heroes we really want a pg-13 rating.
Okay, yeah the third one sucked massive turds for going PG-13.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
You want that watch any 80's movie such as First Blood, Robocop, Predator, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, Commando, Mad Max Road Warrior etc. All those absolutely put Expendables to shame.
I've seen them, dozens of times. I've had them all on VHS, along with Wanted Dead or Alive, The Punisher (Dolph Lundren's version), American Ninja (the first two are classics), Cyborg, Bloodsport, Lionheart, Kickboxer, Joshua Tree, Tango & Cash, Cobra, Big Trouble In Little China, Showdown In Little Tokyo, Rapid Fire, Hudson Hawk, Harley Davidson & Marlboro Man, and a dozen or so other flicks.
But sometimes we want to see new things, just like sometimes we want to play new games. But what happens when you want NEW things that are reminiscent of the old things? Well, in today's society, many of those classic pieces of entertainment just don't exist for newer generations.
He is the protagonist of the film.
He's the title character, but the story is entirely about Furiosa and Immortan Joe's squabble over his birthing-brides. Max is literally just along for the ride.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Every hero meets their end. Logan was actually a great sendoff to Hugh Jackman's Wolverine that he deserved. There has not been a sequel and honestly am fine with it ending there. Passing of the torch has been done poorly but in that film it ended so appropriately.
See but that is a silly thing to think also. So basically you want things to stay the same and not change. Female action heroines were not as popular until Ellen Ripley catapulted them into the mainstream. You mad that changed also?
I like what it is selling itself as. Unfortunately all they did was get the stars and failed to deliver a good film. You still need to make a good film you can't just put the nostalgia pieces in place and expect me to enjoy it.
See and that is it. At best the fight between Stallone and Van Damme was average? Really that is it average? Should we be praising mediocrity? It reminds me of when a new Terminator film comes out and people say well at least it was not as bad as whichever sequel after the second they refer to. Oh wow so we are not concerned if it is good or not we are saying well even though it is bad at least it is not as bad as this other one. People say that as if it is something to be optimistic and happy about. That is the bar not whether it is good but if it's less crappy than another thumbs up there guys that makes me optimistic.
I do not enjoy them because they were not even done in a tasteful way. Arnold's exchange with Bruce Willis was absolute cringe! You can't just go oh look your heroes said the lines of the past but now Arnold said it and Bruce Willis said Arnold's line! Genius!
All of them sucked! The third one just got worse because it was watered down. A I said before how does Scott Pilgrim vs the world a movie with Michael Cera have better framed, staged, edited and choreographed action than a movie starring Jet LI, Stallone, Arnold, Mickey Rourke and Statham? You have to try to be that bad it is insane.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Guess what I am actually with you on a lot of those movies. I love Lethal Weapon, Die Hard, Predator, Aliens, First Blood, Mad Max, Mad Road Warrior, Robocop, Commando etc. I love those films to pieces. The thing is though you can't just put nostalgia on something and that is good enough.
You still need to make a good film! I appreciate the return to past things of course but am I supposed to like it simply because it reminds me of my nostalgia? I was a huge Dragonball Z fan. I watched every episode I loved it! I like Dragonball as well have even read the manga. I watched Dragonball GT it was disappointing. Neat ideas but not good execution. Feels like bad fan fiction. Anyway when I saw Super coming I was like hmmm is it going to be good?
I was skeptical. Guess what it is garbage! All Super is is a lame cash grab on nostalgia. The writing is awful, the animation even worse than any of Z's worst animation and the character arcs are gone. It is Goku and Vegeta everyone else get out of here. It is because they are the fan favorite and they know thats where their money is. The series is overruled with transformations so that they can sell more toys. The exposition dialogue is simply dreadful. Anyway people tell me you just do not like Dragonball! You are not a true fan! No it is because even though I love that show to pieces I am not going to swallow up something simply because it has brand recognition of what I love. Do I expect things to top their predecessors? Nope but you still need to make a quality product. It is why I can't stand Terminator after the second one. There are two terminator films and that is it. Dragonball ended at Z for me there is no more.
Mad Max Fury Road is an example of bringing back a franchise that we all loved but did it exceptionally well! Regardless of it is your favorite Mad Max movie it kicked ass and took names and killed it with a great film. Same goes for Blade Runner 2049.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Every hero meets their end. Logan was actually a great sendoff to Hugh Jackman's Wolverine that he deserved.
Never argued about the quality of the film. Simply that it was another in a long line of properties setting up or following-through with the replacement of the straight, white male hero for a female/POC.
So basically you want things to stay the same and not change. Female action heroines were not as popular until Ellen Ripley catapulted them into the mainstream. You mad that changed also?
Never said things couldn't change. And there were plenty of female heroines BEFORE Alien, such as Cleopatra Jones, Halloween, Foxy Brown, and Rosemary's Baby to name a few. That still doesn't mean we need to REPLACE action fanfare that men enjoy with feminist only garbage. Which is exactly what happened to franchises like Terminator.
See and that is it. At best the fight between Stallone and Van Damme was average? Really that is it average? Should we be praising mediocrity?
When it's the only thing you're given, sometimes that's what you take. It's also indicative of how awful the state of the Western movie business is.
Dragonball ended at Z for me there is no more.
That's fine, but I still enjoyed aspects of the Tournament of Power. The final showdown with Goku, Frieza, Android 17, and Jiren with the theme song blaring was pretty awesome.
Mad Max Fury Road is an example of bringing back a franchise that we all loved but did it exceptionally well!
The action and directing were fine, but you could have very well made the same film without the Max character and it wouldn't have changed much. He could have been replaced by anybody really, which was part of the problem. He didn't even get the Interceptor back! They treated it like nothing in the film, despite its inescapable importance in the first two movies.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
That would rain true if there ever was a sequel to Logan. It was intended as a sendoff for Hugh Jackman's Wolverine. With how much money they made with Logan there easily could have been a sequel. I respected Fox for leaving it on it's own.
I know there were female heroines before Ripley but she did definitely help get the ball rolling further. Never said we needed to replace action fanfare but simply that things are different now. There exist plenty of good action movies today you just need to look. The commercialization killed Terminator after the second one. This is not exactly new. Tons of franchises have suffered this same exact fate. Money is the death to all art. Terminator Salvation was not feminist and it still sucked. Sometimes you need to know when to pull the plug. Terminator 2 ended the series beautifully. There does not need to be anymore. The only thing that could have worked was the idea Salvation had but they screwed it up. Salvation actually had the right idea by not riding off the coattails of the first two and placing it in the future with John Connor. Unfortunately it was no executed well. Every other film tries to ride off the coattails of the second. All feel like fanfiction.
This is where I do not understand your logic. You have other action movies the same year each of those movies were released that were way better. Scott Pilgrim vs The World, 13 Assassins in 2010, The Raid, The Avengers, The Dark Knight Rises, Dredd in 2012, Edge of Tomorrow, The Raid 2, Captain America Winter Soldier and John Wick in 2014. You got your buff straight white guy that was not an ensemble in The Dark Knight Rises, Dredd and Captain America the Winter Soldier. Quit sad Dredd bombed it was actually rather good yet trash like the Expendables makes loads of cash. Why would I watch Expendables and accept mediocrity when I have those to choose from? You said well that is the movie business um no there were better films at that time.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
I could not get into anything in Super at all. The only thing I felt that was semi okay was Beerus being a God. He at least a tad different from other villains they faced. Frieza coming back I absolutely loathed! They brought him back because it is a nostalgia cash grab. Freiza is played out! I loved him he was a classic villain on the show but to revive him is taking away from his defeat! Look him even coming back after Namek was pushing it. However the introduction to Trunks was so awesome that it made us accept and actually like it. That was the last time we should have seen him. What is the point in defeating him?
When will we know he is officially done for good? I wanted to like it but I did not. I hate how there are like 100 different transformations now. Remember when Super Saiyan was awesome? Remember when you had to struggle to get powers by intense training? Remember when villains showed their power rather than hamfisted exposition telling you how strong they are? Show don't tell good grief. When Cell was introduced in Z he did not even have to say a word. Once you saw his horrific power in motion you knew this creature is bad news! Remember when characters other than Goku and Vegeta had arcs? Yeah I miss those days.
Does not matter. I would rather have that then the character I idolized being in some forgettable piece of trash like the Expendables.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
With how much money they made with Logan there easily could have been a sequel. I respected Fox for leaving it on it's own.
I believe they were going to anchor further adventures based on the New Mutants, but I'm pretty sure that movie tanked.
Never said we needed to replace action fanfare but simply that things are different now.
Except that's exactly what happened. Even Bolo Yueng noted that there hasn't been a replacement for JCVD. Heck, there hasn't been a replacement for Mel Gibson, Steven Seagal, Chuck Norris, or Dolph Lundren. The Rock and Vin Diesel are second-tier replacements for Arnold and Stallone. And the closest replacement to Charles Bronson might be Jason Statham.
Terminator Salvation was not feminist and it still sucked.
It did suck, but it also came out before the feminist wave took over the industry.
Salvation actually had the right idea by not riding off the coattails of the first two and placing it in the future with John Connor. Unfortunately it was no executed well.
Yes, they had the right casting and idea, (Bale made for a badass John Connor), but it should have been a hard-R film with the aesthetics of the future war we saw at the beginning of Terminator 2.
You got your buff straight white guy that was not an ensemble in The Dark Knight Rises, Dredd and Captain America the Winter Soldier.
Except those are super hero flicks. They're a different breed of action than non-super hero flicks, and certainly not indicative of the ultra-violent fanfare from the 80s/90s. The closest might be Dredd, but I felt Urban should have gotten a little more buff for the role, and they should have tweaked the suit to make him look more imposing and physically intimidating. Winter Soldier was a good film, but it's more espionage-action rather than Lethal Weapon/Die Hard hardcore action.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
James Mangold was not on board for that project. Of course any stupid producer is going to want to capitalize on whatever franchise they can. This is nothing new.
I hate to break this to you but the days of the big actor or action star like in the past is over. I doubt you will ever see actors be as big as people like Deniro, Pacino, Brando or any of those people ever again. Same goes for action heroes. The days of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Arnold, Stallone, Mel Gibson, Bruce Willis are over. The reason being is you do not need an actor to sell your movie like in the past. For instance look how they got Nicholson to play Joker. Or Jim Carrey to play Riddler and Arnold as Freeze. They do this because they knew those names were recognizable. They would sell tickets because of their start power. Things have changed. Do I like all of that no but it is what it is man.
Which shows that it was not the feminist stuff which dragged down Terminator it sucked far before that.
Bale was stunt casted, they knew he was hot off Batman and was a huge name. While I think Bale is a great actor to me the casting did not feel completely genuine. I do not dislike it but stunt casting is hard for me to be totally in love with. He could could have been solid if given the right script and direction though.
Blade is a comic book movie as is Dredd. Thing is those films are so unapologetically violent that they fit right in with movies like Die Hard or lethal Weapon from the 80's. The other superhero films I get not fitting into this category. Winter Soldier is espionage action but in the end it accomplishes it's goals better than the Expendables does.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Scott Pilgrim vs The World,
Scott Pilgrim had great choreography and was entertaining, but it represented everything that's wrong with society today. Noodle-armed, soy-fed hero wrapped up in a self-indulgent hipster universe. I would have appreciated that movie more if real-life didn't so heavily reflect its artistic sensibilities.
You said well that is the movie business um no there were better films at that time.
Except even as your list shows, only Dredd really embodied the classic 80s/90s style action. The rest were cape-fare or foreign films. Nothing against foreign films, I love them, but we still need Commando/Rambo style Western films.
I would rather have that then the character I idolized being in some forgettable piece of trash like the Expendables.
Nah, I would have preferred if Mad Mel had starred in the film. Would have been a completely different beast. Also I can appreciate the Expendables as hamfisted fanfare nodding respectfully toward a bygone era. These days everything is so awash with the tropes from Lefty central that you can almost see it all coming a mile away. It's why I appreciated Extraction so much. Too bad it was buried and forgotten about, though.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
No actually wrong. Scott Pilgrim vs The World was a box office dud. The Expendables made more money than it did. Not a box office smash but it was successful enough. That shows you about how dumb the movie going public is actually. Scott Pilgrim vs the world was a far better film than the Expendables was. So how did that movie move that hipster soy boy thing forward when it was a box office bomb?
Dredd was also a box office bomb. The Expendables 2 made way more money than it did. Again proving that the movie going public is ignorant. Dredd literally had your 80's action aesthetic that you love. So the movie that did this idea better tanks where as the movie that does this idea horribly does way better in the box office. The Expendables knew it could rely on nostalgia to pull people in the theaters. Thankfully I had friends tell me these films were garbage and I never went to theaters to see them. I simply rented them off netflix. I would have been pissed if I had went to the theaters what a waste of money that would be! The raw truth is Hollywood is going to cater to what people pay to see. No one paid to see Dredd and you wonder why these films do not exist anymore? How about you support the good versions of these ideas rather the crappy nostalgia bait films the Expendables were. You called these excellent films my hell are you insane?
You are in the minority on that. Mad Max Fury Road is considered a great film by the majority. Hamfisting of any kind whether it be fanfare or hamfisted politics it is tedious to watch. So hamfisted nostalgia is okay but not left leaning politics. This shows your hypocrisy.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
I hate to break this to you but the days of the big actor or action star like in the past is over.
The Rock says "Hi".
https://www.menshealth.com/entertainment/a22219355/the-rock-dwayne-johnson-net-worth/
Which shows that it was not the feminist stuff which dragged down Terminator it sucked far before that.
The feminist stuff just dragged it down even further.
Blade is a comic book movie as is Dredd. Thing is those films are so unapologetically violent that they fit right in with movies like Die Hard or lethal Weapon from the 80's.
Yup, and Dolph Lundgren's Punisher, which was a perfect ultra-violent 80s flick. You would completely forget it was a comic book movie. Lined up well alongside Rambo, Commando, Invasion USA, and Delta Force.
No actually wrong. Scott Pilgrim vs The World was a box office dud. The Expendables made more money than it did.
Never said Scott Pilgrim was a success, just that it represented a lot of the hipster tropes I hate in current day society, despite the fight scenes being entertaining.
So the movie that did this idea better tanks where as the movie that does this idea horribly does way better in the box office.
Ehh, not really. Dredd didn't have any memorable action scenes, and the one hand-to-hand fight scene wasn't filmed very well nor very memorable either. It was a solid action film, but Urban really needed to be more buff and they needed a more iconic shootout/fight scene that people would talk about, sort of like The Raid or John Wick or The Man from Nowhere.
Expendables 2 at least had JCVD vs Stallone and the airport shootout.
So hamfisted nostalgia is okay but not left leaning politics. This shows your hypocrisy.
Yep, 'cause nostalgia is entertaining, Leftism isn't.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
I didn't say there were no action stars that were famous but even by your own admission it isn't the same as in the past. The rock also doesn't fit your white checklist. Anyway you misread what I wrote. Action stars and big celebrities are not like it was in the past. Star power doesn't carry films like it used to so nope you are wrong.
I was checked out from Terminator before that. I've been checked out since Salvation failed. No more it's over leave it alone.
So then why is Dredd not celebrated by you? It's far better made than the expendables. Oh yeah no nostalgia bait.
Ha totally wrong. Dredd is seen as the better film by every metric. Better user score on metacritic and better critical reception. You are in the minority thinking Expendables is equal or better than Dredd. Action is nothing great but at least it's competent. Also aside from that it's a competent film. It doesn't throw a bunch of nostalgia berries hoping it will distract you from a garbage film.
The fight between Stallone and JCVD sucked!
Nostalgia is only entertaining when it's executed well, in which it was not in expendables. So no I disagree. Anything can be good if it's executed well. Mad Max Fury Road has feminist undertones and you can label it a feminist film. It's seen as much better than Expendables across the board whether it be critics or users on metacritic. So looks like it's more entertaining than nostalgia bait trash to the majority. As to quote Ebert it's not what it's about it's how it's about it.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Star power doesn't carry films like it used to so nope you are wrong.
Except that's literally almost every Tom Cruise or Denzel Washington movie. A lot of it also has to do with the way movies are positioned around studio branding rather than actor branding, which is a deliberate way for Hollywood to make bank without relying on stars. But it hasn't really paid off for anything other than cape films.
So then why is Dredd not celebrated by you? It's far better made than the expendables. Oh yeah no nostalgia bait.
Already said why. No memorable fight scenes. No standout shootouts. And Urban was kind of swallowed up in the atmosphere instead of standing out from it the way Stallone did in the awful but visually spectacular 1995 Dredd.
You are in the minority thinking Expendables is equal or better than Dredd.
Nah, the box office obviously disagrees. A lot of us just wanted a great nostalgia throwback to 80s/90s action and Expendables 2 definitely delivered.
So looks like it's more entertaining than nostalgia bait trash to the majority.
None of that changes my issues with the film or Hollyweird's current trends, it just reinforces that point actually since many of us have to settle for the Expendables because it's the only real masculine throwback to an era of unquestionably excellent action films. Also after John Wick 3, looks like it might be going woke. Hopefully Adkins and Yen revive John Wick 4 right proper.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Superhero films are the big thing these days. Hollywood is going to follow the money.
There are no memorable action scenes in Expendables either. Then to top it off the script is terrible! The only reason I see you giving the Expendables the edge is because it is nostalgia bait. I disagree I think Karl Urban did great and looked just fine.
More money reflects what is more marketable not which is better seen by the majority. Transformers movies makes more money than Mad Max Fury Road or any Blade Runner film it does not mean they are seen as better than those. No Expendables 2 was garbage it simply relied on nostalgia to get people in the theaters. People like you are easy to market to. Just lay on the nostalgia bait and it does not matter if the movie is good you will give it a pass.
It does not matter if it changes your issue, it showcases the majority does not have your mindset. You said feminism is not entertaining nostalgia is. That is your opinion and you are in the minority. Nostalgia is cool but you need to deliver on making a good film. Do I like female action heroines? Yep when they are good character properly executed. Do I like male action heroes yep again when properly executed. You give things a pass on the basis of what you prefer.
Oh I like those 80's movies it is paying homage to or trying to recreate it is a great film! More to judging films than liking something. Oh I like Dragonball Z so I will look past all the garbage storytelling in Dragonball Super because I mean hey I like Dragonball! Hey I like BVS Dawn of Justice because hey I love Batman man it is a great film! This is literally your logic. Yet you consider yourself the better judge of cinema? I question you deeply after thinking those movies are good. I call out when a film that is even leaning left or is feminist is bad where as a film full of a white cast with macho guys gets a pass. Rather ridiculous dude.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Superhero films are the big thing these days. Hollywood is going to follow the money.
Except good action films NEVER stopped making money, as evident with John Wick. The problem is we just don't get those kind of movies anymore.
There are no memorable action scenes in Expendables either.
The fight scene with Stallone and Stone Cold, the fight scene with JCVD and Stallone, as well as the opening sequence from Expendables 2 -- all of those were really cool and memorable. As well as the airport shootout, and Chuck Norris!
That is your opinion and you are in the minority.
If I were in the minority the Expendables never would have made money, and Terminator Dark Fate, Ghostbuers (2016), and Ocean's Eight (among many others) all would have been huge blockbuster success stories.
You give things a pass on the basis of what you prefer.
Of course. Everyone does.
I question you deeply after thinking those movies are good.
I support Stallone and others with his mindset because if we don't, then we lose these kind of macho films forever.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Nope we still do get them as John Wick is doing great. In the end though selling out and making Expendables 3 rated pg-13 showcases that even they sold out.
All of that is garbage! You mean the fight where stock footage is used? Watch the fight again. JCVD's spinning kick is reused during the fight. A film so lazy they actually use stock footage during a fight scene. If that is what you are boasting about as being good you know the film sucks. Captain America the Winter Soldier has better choreographed fights and it is a pg-13 film. How does a pg-13 film have better action than a rated r film? With the r rating you are less limited as to what you can show.
Also again you are attempting to equate box office success to what people rate it. Star Wars is going to make money regardless of how good it is because it is Star Wars. It is marketable. It is more marketable than something like Mad Max Fury Road. The Expendables has more wide appeal than some of the films you listed because of it's star power. That does not make it a better film or better received simply more marketable. I never said you were in the minority in paying money to see them I said you are in the minority in thinking they are good films. Mad Max Fury Road a feminist movie is seen as better than any Expendables film. I love this it dismantles your BS about nostalgia being better than feminism. Films are about execution not just judging them simply based on what they want to be or are alluding to. Mad Max shows that a feminist film can be a great film. Do I think expendables could have been awesome? Oh absolutely but unfortunately it was garbage.
Nope not true. Myself I prefer dark comic book movies over lighthearted ones. Give me, Sin City, The Dark Knight or Logan over any Marvel film, or Raimi Spider-man film. Thing is I can recognize when something which is lighthearted is better than a dark film. Just because something is darker does not make it better by default it is just my preference.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
There are good and bad of dark and lighthearted comic book films. Good lighthearted films are Superman the Movie, Superman 2, Spider-man, Spider-man 2, The Avengers, Scott Pilgrim vs the World etc. There are good dark comic book movies such as Batman 1989, Batman Returns, Sin City, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and Logan. Bad lighthearted comic book movies Fantastic Four 2005, Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer, Batman & Robin Superman IV the quest for peace etc.
Bad dark comic book movies, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Ghost Rider Spirit Of Vengeance, Fantastic Four 2015, and BVS Dawn of Justice. So since I prefer dark comic book films over light that means I would prefer BVS Dawn of Justice over Spider-man 2 right? I mean BVS is dark and Spider-man 2 is lighthearted. This is your logic. You prefer off the basis of preference of what it is rather than the basis of quality. You also lack the ability to logically see how anyone who breaks it down can see Spider-man 2 is a better made film than BVS Dawn of Justice. There are certain films I prefer over others but I also have a brain and can logically tell if something is better made than my particular preference.
I am not going to shell out my own hard earned money just because it something I like if the product is garbage. You want my support you have to earn it, you are not entitled to it simply because you own a property of something I like.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Nope we still do get them as John Wick is doing great.
John Wick is literally the only one. Meanwhile, we get a thousand different variations on the angry-lesbian feminist action heroine that's the same thing over and over again. Protege and Jolt are two that come to mind that aren't even a month apart, following on the heels of Gunpowder Milkshake and Kate. Meanwhile, all you can keep naming is John Wick.
How does a pg-13 film have better action than a rated r film?
Because they filmed the entire fight in a day. JCVD was only on set for three days total.
I said you are in the minority in thinking they are good films.
No, a lot of us think they're good films because they're the only ones of their kind that we have. We support them because we must.
You want my support you have to earn it
That's fine, but they're still making feminist garbage even without earning it. Meanwhile, fans of actual action movies get scraps. Hollywood has an agenda and it has nothing to do with earning money off fan appreciation and die-hard support.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
I am not denying we get loads of sjw crap that sucks. Where I think you are ignorant is you assume because it is nostalgia bait it is better than a feminist film. Mad Max Fury Road is a feminist film but it is loads better than the Expendables is. It is seen as a better film by the mass majority as well. I already pointed to you in liking Dredd. I saw that film in theaters. I thought it was actually good. Was it a masterpiece? No but it is a good film. Expendables is not even competent it sucks! You like it because it has your favorite action heroes it goes no further than that. Dredd should have been the movie to make the money not Expendables. Unfortunately though people do not reward the right things they go off name recognition.
Okay and does that excuse the fight scene? Tons of movies have shooting issues scheduling issues etc. We judge the film as a finished product not what goes on behind the scenes.
The score from the imdb page of most helpful reviews is loaded with negative reviews. The user score is also not good even when looking at metacritic. Even Aquaman has better user scores on both imdb and metacritic let that sink in... So no I would not say the majority thinks they are good films. They have a built in audience yes but they are most unanimously known as bad movies. Why support trash? Do they have your lifetime membership because you have nostalgia with them? Go support good versions of this idea such as Dredd.
Mad Max Fury Road was a good film and earned it's stripes. If it had been feminist and bad I would have called it crap. See that is the difference I judge the film for it's quality. You give Expendables a pass because it caters to what you like. I like that stuff also! I already told you man I love those old action movies I really do! However just because I like nostalgia does not give you a free pass from me to be a bad product. For instance I thought Ghostbusters 2016 sucked as well. It is a bad film. I am a huge Dragonball fan own the manga does that mean that I owe them a lifetime subscription because I love that and it is nostalgic for me? I like Batman does that mean I need to like BVS and give it a pass? Sorry bud I do not see it that way.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Mad Max Fury Road is a feminist film but it is loads better than the Expendables is.
Nope. I've rewatched all three Expendables multiple times. Fury Road? Only watched it once. Never again.
Unfortunately though people do not reward the right things they go off name recognition.
I knew who Dredd was, I knew who Karl Urban was. As I said, I would have been throwing money at them all day long had they cast someone like Stallone in THAT iteration of Dredd.
Okay and does that excuse the fight scene?
It was a step better than the fight scene in Cobra between Stallone and Brian Thompson. So it was fine with me. Definitely could have been better, though.
Go support good versions of this idea such as Dredd.
Already did and that was nearly ten years ago. They don't movies like that anymore.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Lmao! I can't believe you said that publicly. First that is your opinion one that thankfully isn't shared by the majority. Mad Max Fury Road beat all expendables in every conceivable way. It did better in box office despite not having the star power, not to mention the third one being pg13. It was better received by both critics and users unanimously. Yet you were getting all up in arms that lots of users preferred Black Panther over Blade. This showcases you don't think critically or judge things fairly. I'm a feminist but I will call out a product if it's badly made. You don't see me defending Ghostbusters 2016, the new fantastic four or anything poorly made. You lack this ability as evident with this statement. Write a review how expendables is better than mad max Fury road. Make it logical and convincing I would pay money to see you fumble over words attempting to do that.
Which shows you only care about nostalgia baiting star power. I don't need a big star in order for me to enjoy the film. Heath Ledger was nowhere near the star Nicholson was but he was a fantastic Joker. Sometimes the star's power can take away from the film. Stallone is a way bigger star than Urban but Urban's Dredd was far better made.
Which again I love how stupid this mindset is. Well it was better than that other gorilla turd therefore I'm satisfied. That's seriously your gauge? That's not a high bar to clear. Being accepting of something because it's less shit than another product is not an arena or mentality I care to play or exist in. What a depressing dumb counterproductive way to think.
They have them but there are less. Just like how I stated there are less movies with trench coats and stuff. That's not the craze anymore. It's hypocritical how you had no issue when white buff dudes ruled the action movie scene. Now you don't like that things are flipped and lots of action stories center around females or ethic leads.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Write a review how expendables is better than mad max Fury road. Make it logical and convincing I would pay money to see you fumble over words attempting to do that.
It all boils down to payoff. Mad Max 2 arguably had the best chase scene payoff in movie history. It meant something and was about something. Fury Road was literally a roundabout circular film; they ended EXACTLY where they began. I felt the action scenes and payoff were muted and undermined by the plot itself, which sort of hinges on it being themed around feminism.
Expendables 2 at least had a logical build up and conclusion, same with Expendables 1. The action wasn't perfect, but the payoffs were at least consistent, and in some cases memorable enough, especially for fans of the bygone era of action heroes (Van Damme's butterfly kick is still the best in the business and no one does it like him nor have they done it in a Hollywood blockbuster since Expendables 2).
Stallone is a way bigger star than Urban but Urban's Dredd was far better made.
That's exactly what I said. I just wish Stallone's Dredd was darker and more brooding like Urban's Dredd. It would have been the perfect dystopian action film!
Now you don't like that things are flipped and lots of action stories center around females or ethic leads.
The audience for white buff dudes NEVER left. Plus all these female/POC-led movies are mostly generic, terribly-written garbage. Neither entertaining nor memorable. They also appeal to exclusively almost no one; a phantom audience.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Nope Mad Max Fury Road actually is a perfect example of show don't tell. The characters went through arcs and grew in the end. Just because it circled back around does not mean the characters were in the same place in terms of character arcs. The payoff was a damn delight to watch in the cinema. The action is constantly referenced and it is edited pristinely. In every single way Mad Max Fury Road crushes the Expendables. When measuring film history Expendables will never come close to being considered as good as Mad Max Fury Road. Your opinion does not change this it is an objective fact.
The action was awful! The editing as well as choreography was trash in those films. You are seriously defending a fight scene that uses stock footage. Notice you had no retort to that. I do not care about that kick big deal. A cool kick does not make a fight scene good.
Seriously watch the fight with Jet Li and Dolph Lundgren. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbQq9PILi10 The editing in that fight is cancer for my eyes. Not only that but man the choreography is absolutely weak! Watch Jet Li in Fist of Legend and tell me that fight holds a candle to any of his fights in Fist of Legend.
Could have been good but we already got that with Urban's Dredd. It was actually good and to be honest I am glad it did not have some big star.
Nope if a feminist film is good it has an audience. Mad Max Fury Road says hi.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
The payoff was a damn delight to watch in the cinema. The action is constantly referenced and it is edited pristinely.
And yet it's still not as good as Mad Max 2, which had no bloated budget or CGI to fall back on. Those vehicle stunts are still better than anything in today's cinema. And therein lies the problem with Fury Road.
I do not care about that kick big deal. A cool kick does not make a fight scene good.
Except it absolutely did add to the appeal. That's the difference between us. I appreciate the fundamental architecture of art. You don't.
Watch Jet Li in Fist of Legend and tell me that fight holds a candle to any of his fights in Fist of Legend.
Of course, but Jet Li already had heart trouble post-Fearless and hasn't done any extensive fight scenes like that since then. Even in his Hong Kong flicks he hardly does extensive choreography due to heart troubles. So he was never going to have a very huge fight sequence in Expendables. Also, that fight was SUPPOSED to be between JCVD and Jet Li, but JCVD turned down the role Stallone wrote for him in the first film.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Again you are in the minority in thinking that. Mad Max Fury Road got better reception by both critics and users over Road Warrior. I love Road Warrior but I think Fury Road is actually better. Either way the majority disagrees with you. See this is what I do not get about you. Since you claim Road Warrior is better than Fury Road both excellent movies but you think Road Warrior is better, therefore you hold that against Fury Road even though it is great. With Expendables you make stupid excuses for it's awful quality. You go well at least it was not as bad as this and to you that gives it a free pass. What a joke man. With Fury Road your big argument is it is not as good as Road Warrior. My argument with Expendables is not just oh it is not as good as the past films it is paying homage to it is that it sucks in and of itself.
No that would be you who does not appreciate it. Notice how I broke down the editing, the choreography and you made excuses for it and for whatever reason you are an apologist for these films. Unlike you I call out bad quality even if it caters to my preferences. How are you any better than someone who is the opposite of you? What if someone who is a leftist gives a leftist film praise just because it is a feminist film isn't that dumb? You do this very thing with Expendables. Oh look it caters to what I like therefore I will give it a pass and look past the awful quality.
I do not care if it was supposed to be between JCVD and Jet li I am judging it as a finished product. I do not care about his fight sequence being huge but good grief why was it edited so badly?
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Again you are in the minority in thinking that.
No, that's internet pop-culture clouding your judgment. IMDB and social media didn't exist when Mad Max 2 came out, so its current day internet mindshare is based on people recently discovering it. Mad Max 2 had a HUGE cultural impact on movies, post-apoc sci-fi, and car culture. Nothing from Fury Road really carried over into pop-culture the way the first three Mad Max films did (even though Thunderdome was terrible).
You do this very thing with Expendables. Oh look it caters to what I like therefore I will give it a pass and look past the awful quality.
As I already said, it's because Expendables is a dying breed, the literal last of its kind. Without Stallone we really don't get many blockbuster macho movies anymore in the West. Feminist trash, however, is a dime a dozen, and EVERYWHERE.
I do not care about his fight sequence being huge but good grief why was it edited so badly?
Meh, even Stallone was disappointed in that fight. Not sure what happened, but I know for sure Li is quite adverse to a lot of physicality these days and they had to work around that.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Ha I figured you would try and use this argument. Back to the Future came out before the internet came out and it still has a higher user rating than any Avengers movie does. Same with the first two Godfather films. Casablanca as well. Blade Runner has a higher user rating than Blade Runner 2049. Which both Blade Runners were box office bombs. So nope your logic does not work here sorry bud.
Stupid logic. So because it is a dying breed and it is a genre you like then we should just accept something if it is terrible? No we need to have standard and judge it fairly regardless if it is a dying breed or not. I judge things as I see them, I do not rate things on a curve and give it leniency like you just because it is the last of it's kind and it happens to cater to what I enjoy. Batman films were dying off and so were superhero films in general around the late 90's. Does that mean we give Batman & Robin a pass simply because it was a dying breed at the time? No absolutely not!
Lol see and you just conceded to even the film maker being disappointed in the end result. Point to me any sequence like this in Fury Road. You can't. All you can do is attempt to say well it is not as good as Road Warrior. Which as I already pointed out is not the majority's opinion.
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Back to the Future came out before the internet came out and it still has a higher user rating than any Avengers movie does.
Because it's constantly played on cable TV ALL THE TIME. The original Mad Max trilogy isn't as pervasive in media as Back To The Future is. Even then, the second and third movie have half the amount of ratings as the Avengers trilogy. So even as beloved as the original is, it's still overwhelmed by the ubiquitousness of the MCU zeitgeist.
So because it is a dying breed and it is a genre you like then we should just accept something if it is terrible?
Yep, because it's all replaced by awful feminist trash that people like you are okay with. I'm not okay with that stuff in any capacity. I'll take a terrible nostalgia-bait over a feminist film any day of the week. The former is in short supply, the latter has inundated EVERY aspect of EVERY entertainment medium.
All you can do is attempt to say well it is not as good as Road Warrior.
Because it's not. From a storyline point of view, from a worldbuilding point of view, and even from a physics-point of view. Mad Max 2 was a lot more grounded, had more relatable stakes, and more daring, believable action sequences.
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moviefanatic505 (6115)
3 years ago
Back to the Future was not the only one I listed. You missed several others that are not played on tv all the time. Hara-Kiri a film made in 1962 you can bet is not played anywhere close to what Back to the Future is. It still has a higher user rating than the Marvel films. So nope not true. The second and third Back to the Future were always liked but nowhere near as much as the original.
Sorry we will find no agreement here. I judge a movie on it's own merits. If a movie is good it is good if it is bad it is bad. As I said so by your logic since I prefer dark over light that means I should see BVS Dawn of Justice as a better film than Spider-man 2? See and this also proves you give the edge to the Expendables over Mad Max Fury Road not because of the quality of the film but because of it's brand. Which showcases you are not better than a raging leftist who favors a film simply because it is feminist. You are a hypocrite. You will take a rotten meal simply because it is served by a conservative over a freshly made meal served by a liberal. It is not about quality to you it is about who is serving it. Pathetic buddy. Notice I can call out trash on my end where as you can not. Ghostbusters 2016 and Fantastic Four 2015 suck and they suck bad! However I will take your approach I have changed I think those films are great because they are feminist. You are an idiot! This shows you have no credibility when it comes to critiquing movies.
Also no you are wrong. Okay but even if you were correct. You said Road Warrior had the best chase scene ever. Okay so if something does not live up to that does that mean it is crap? See this is how stupid your point is. Even people who like Godfather 1 over 2 admit yeah but 2 is still a great movie. Or vice verse. People who prefer 2 can go Godfather 1 is still great though. Your whole premise is it is bad because it is not as good as the other. With Expendables it is the opposite it is good because it is not as crap as the others lol. You seriously are a joke!
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cyguration (3951)
3 years ago
Hara-Kiri a film made in 1962 you can bet is not played anywhere close to what Back to the Future is. It still has a higher user rating than the Marvel films.
With only 48k votes, so it's a very niche film. Plenty of niche films have higher user ratings, such as Chushingura, which has a higher rating than Avengers: Age of Ultron, but only because 3k people voted.
See and this also proves you give the edge to the Expendables over Mad Max Fury Road not because of the quality of the film but because of it's brand.
No, it's because -- as I said -- the Expendables is a rarity now for cinema goers. We don't get masculine action films anymore.
Your whole premise is it is bad because it is not as good as the other.
It's also because it moves away from what made the previous films great, trading real action scenes for CGI, and pretty much making Max a secondary character in his own film.
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