condition of prostitutes - The Whistleblower (2011) Discussion

[–] johnlockepz 14 years ago

I was thinking the same thing, I don't know if these were what their conditions were really like or if it was grimed up for dramatic effect, I'm hoping the later but if it was a realistic portrayal of their conditions... I just don't understand how men could do such things, without even the (paid for) illusion that they are willing participants.

It boggles the mind

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[–] pinkpink_1217 13 years ago

I share the same wonder at first but I've got some ideas now. Firstly, I believe that how the girls looked like or what condition they're in meant nothing to those men because what they're doing weren't just sex. As shown in the movie, they tortured the girls in many ways - intercourse wasn't their only need. They didn't even treat them like human beings. Those girls were slaves like dogs - merely sex machines that they could play with (also, they used condoms, as shown in the movie, the condoms were scattered all over their room). Secondly, it might be possible that the men had no other choices. Perhaps it's hard to find prostitution like that - girls whom they could do anything to. I guess they couldn't torture a normal hooker in the way they did to those trafficked women, right? Or maybe there were not many hookers at all.

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[–] freddy2011 13 years ago

I and a former wife of o police officer have resently revealed that two Swedish cops were the biggest pimps in Sweden for 12 years. Both of us have been threatened by the Swedish police and government. Google "göran lindber" and "Lars Wetter", you will se the faces of cops that are pedophiles and they are protected by the government. Involved in this is the Swedish king with his pedophile friends. Google "carl gustaf - den motvillige monarken", and you will see the book written about the king and his pedophile friends. Writers of this book also threatened by police and Swedish government.

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[–] rightwing_redcoat 13 years ago

Its a good point the original poster makes. I think I would say that it has less to do with sex, attractiveness, hygiene, or anything else other than the exercise of power. Unfortunately, there are many men in the world who get off on controlling women in this way. It's the same reason why many men who molest / abuse children are not actually clinically defined as pedophiles; they just like having someone weaker than them (in this case, children, in the movie's case, enslaved prostitutes) under their control.

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[–] camansega 13 years ago

Yes, you are absolutely right... the reason why a man or a group of men (let us exclude peer pressure) is the pure excercise of power... it is rape in a masked form. I do know this because even though this is rare in Colombia, I have personally known people who practice this and brag about it. These men are often frustated by their reality and lacked the love of a mother and the authority from a father while they were children, thus they manifest this compulsive beahavior in order to regain those feelings of love and abandonement from chilhood. I am not making excuses for these men, who I think are monsters, but that is the sad truth.... this movie I think is both terrible and amazing at the same time... coz it shows how those who have power excersice their power by explicitly GOING AGAINST not only the ideals but also the victims they swore to protect. And how we, taxpayers worldwide, stay back and glance sideways instead of fighting these attrocities commited, I must say, to a higher or lesser degree in EVERY COUNTRY OF THE WORLD!

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] flh462002 13 years ago

Some of the men who abused these women surely would have taken advantage of others more suited to their fantasies if they were available. But it's certain that many of them enjoyed knowing that their victims had come from much better and cleaner places, and now they were dragged down into dirt. It was about power. This kind of atrocity cannot be judged from a stable social perspective.

It is not about Eastern European culture, either. It is about rape and torture of women as a tool of war since war began. It's been a tool of every culture, the US included, as either a proof of power, an act of revenge, or a claim of spoils. Not every man does it, certainly. But group psychology and notions of cultural superiority loom large in any conflict. And women have always been the coin of that realm, with very few exceptions. The attempted genocide of the Muslim population in Eastern Europe was rooted in centuries-old hatreds, and real though long-ago crimes, that were fanned anew when opportunists took power. Those who were victimized ages before, victimized their historic abusers. Muslim and non Muslim neighbors who had been friends for decades were whipped into fury by propaganda and power-hungry leaders like Milosevic. People are sadly vulnerable to such things... witness the hatred toward Muslims whipped up by some power hungry Americans since 9/11/01. People who never had a thought about Islam suddenly believe them to be the enemy of humanity. It's true of every conflict anywhere... the "enemy" is created by those in power, and people who know no better become believers.

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[–] imdb-20-fcasparx 13 years ago

Exactly. The op, anne-536, hopes to "never encounter this type of man for the rest of (her) life", but in truth - may it be hard to grasp for many - she already is surrounded by these man. Man capable of that same kind of despicable behaviour - given the appropriate circumstances. She is also surrounded by women that won't hesitate to blame the victims for their own tragic fate - given the appropriate circumstances.

We human beings are what we are - right now, in this very moment - not only because of our own personal history (how we've grown up), but also due to our current social environment. What others do, what authorities do, what happens to those that don't follow along, etc.

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[–] poizen-ivy 13 years ago

I concur. This is a 'scary' thought for some, but already obvious to others. This violence didn't surprise me in the slightest. Moved and saddened me, but I know this happens everywhere.

~ Seeing is believing, but feeling is the truth ~

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[–] tallard 13 years ago

Exactly. Right here in Canada, the RCMP estimates that nearly 5000 women are sold into slavery every year. So these sorry excuses for humans that these males are... are among us, it's up to us, females, to expose and denounce them, and help/support other females to do the same.

***So I've seen 4 movies/wk in theatre for a 1/4 century, call me crazy?**

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[–] Thomas Dunson 11 years ago

"So these sorry excuses for humans that these males are... are among us, it's up to us, females, to expose and denounce them, and help/support other females to do the same."

by tallard » Thu Feb 9 2012 00:58:12

"On her first night in Italy, she was placed under the control of a madam and ordered to sleep with a man. When she refused, the madam beat her."

from:
GlobalPost | Heather Murdock | February 12, 2013 06:25
Nigerian shamans and traffickers use juju magic to force women into prostitution
(http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/130205/juju-wom en-sex-slaves-prostitution-Nigeria)

"She was welcomed to the house with skimpy clothing and high heels. "Hit the streets," her madam told her. She owed more than $80,000 for her passage to Europe, and the only available job was prostitution.

[...]

For a month, Chinye worked the streets as many as 20 hours a day, but she never made enough money to send anything back to her brothers in Nigeria. The madam forced her to pay for food, housing and work clothes, and demanded $500 a week towards her debt. It was not long before she realized that at the rate she was going, she would always be accruing debt faster than she could pay it off.

[...]

The madam counted on all her “girls” to keep quiet and make money."

from:
GlobalPost | Heather Murdock | February 12, 2013 06:25
Juju trafficking: one Nigerian woman's prostitution ordeal
(http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/130205/juju-wom en-sex-slaves-part-2-Nigeria-aid-conflict-zones)

"My family’s contact then told me that to pay the debt, I would be working as a prostitute in brothels (which are legalized in Germany). It was then that I realized that my family’s contact was a madam.

[...]

I worked day and night for months, doing everything they asked me, in order to get the money for my madam; and every day I cried. If I came home (I lived with my traffickers) without enough money, my madam would seriously reprimand and abuse me. And, after servicing clients, I would often have to wash dishes and take care of the children in the house.

[...]

My madam wanted me to do it without a condom.

[...]

Seven months after I started, police carried out a check on the brothel and they asked me if I was working there voluntarily. I was very scared and, remembering the oath I had sworn before leaving Nigeria, I said “yes.” They looked over my papers and, realizing they weren’t mine, arrested me and took me to the immigration detention centre. While there I became sick, vomiting, and was brought to a hospital. I found out then that I had AIDS. My madam managed to track me down after I left the hospital and told me that I had to continue being a prostitute to pay for the remaining debt, which she said was still more than half of the 50,000 euro. I refused and she started threatening me and my family back home, who begged me to comply."

from:
Equality Now | no date given
Survivor Stories: Grace (Nigeria/Germany)
(http://www.equalitynow.org/survivorstories/grace)

"After the smuggling they are handed over to the Nigerian female pimps usually called “Madam” Most of them were trafficked to Germany themselves and forced into prostitution. After having paid the debts (e.g. smuggling costs) they take the role of a pimp themselves. The victims who for the most part work as prostitutes in Europe have to pay high amounts to the “Madams” for the smuggling. It occurs quite often that during a ritual voodoo act the women are forced to swear an oath, to obey the “Madams” and to pay back that so-called debt. In this way they are brought into a psychic dilemma."

from:
Landesverband der Evangelischen Frauenhilfe in Westfalen e.V. | Heidi Rall | 10.–11.09.2008
Internationale Fachtagung Gemeinsam gegen Menschenhandel – Lecture
(http://www.frauenhilfe-westfalen.de/fachtagung_menschenhandel/vortrag_ rall_eng.html)

"The emigration pact

Nigerian trafficking in Europe is built on a pact between the person trafficked and the traffickers and has a specific organizational form. [...] As mentioned, the first contact is made by a person who is often a part of the family or circle of friends. This person puts the woman in touch with a “madam” who is the most important person in the network in Nigeria. Sometimes there is a third person who acts as a sponsor and finances the trip. However, the sponsor and the madam will often be the same person, as in this example. It is normally a woman, but it may also be a man. In addition to the madam in Nigeria, there is a madam in Italy who is responsible for the woman after she has arrived. The madam in Europe is closely connected to the madam in Nigeria; often, they will belong to the same extended family. The other central persons are a religious leader (ohen) in Nigeria, the human smugglers who are responsible for the journey (trolleys), and a male assistant to the madam in Italy (madam's black boy).

The sponsor is responsible for paying all costs of the journey and settling abroad. These make up a debt that the woman is required to pay back. Required documents normally cost between US$ 500 and US$ 3,000. In addition, smugglers often charge as much as US$ 10,000 for the trip (Okojie et al, 2003). The debt the women incur, however, is considerably larger, usually in the range US$ 40,000 to US$ 100,000. It normally takes between one and three years as a prostitute in Europe to pay back this amount (Okojie et al, 2003; Prina, 2003; Smits, 2001; Somerset, 2001). Many women do not understand the extent of what they are committing themselves to because they are not familiar with European currencies (Carchedi et al, 2003; Prina, 2003).

Once a woman has agreed to go to Europe, she is taken to a shrine where the pact of emigration is confirmed and sealed.

[...]

Once Nigerian women arrive in Europe through the trafficking network, a madam usually takes care of them, often in collaboration with a male partner (madam's black boy). This is a cohabiting partner or boyfriend who takes care of certain parts of the trafficking process. In those cases where the woman was not aware that she would be working as a prostitute, she often realizes this only a few days after her arrival when the madam takes her shopping for clothes (Okojie et al, 2003). The madam is usually responsible for equipping the prostitutes with working clothes and condoms, while the fellow prostitutes do the work of training the new arrival.

The women either live with the madam or in another flat where they are watched by a controller. This is often a former prostitute who has repaid her debt and is saving money to start her own business as a madam. The competition between the women of a single madam can also be an important part of the control. Whether the women live with the madam or with a controller, the living quarters can be overcrowded, with many women sharing the same room. It is not uncommon for one madam to control 10 to 15 women. The flat is used to sleep and watch TV between the shifts (Prina, 2003).

[...], the women are often subject to various forms of enforcement and abuse by the traffickers. This may include confiscation of documents, physical threats and violence, threats against family members, deprivation of liberty, limitations on communication with others, confiscation of income, and sexual abuse (Okojie et al, 2003). Sometimes, the madam in Nigeria pays local gangs, so-called area boys, to threaten the family of the woman or punish them if she breaks the pact (Smits, 2001).

[...]

Nigerian trafficking is not only characterized through being controlled by women, but also that these women often were themselves prostitutes. Both aspects are important to the relationship between the madam and the prostitutes. As a young Nigerian who had worked in Italy expressed it, “when a woman asks you to work the street, you accept because she is like you; she has done so herself” (Prina, 2003: 61). The relationship between the prostitutes and the madam is often highly ambivalent. On the one hand, the madam is responsible for keeping the prostitute under slave-like conditions and, on the other, she may actually help the prostitute to earn money and to establish herself as a madam once the debt is paid.

In Italy, the madams are usually aged between 25 and 35 (Cole and Booth, 2004). In the Netherlands, there are madams as young as 19, who themselves came to the Netherlands as child prostitutes. Often, they will have entered into a pro forma marriage with a Dutch man to get a residence permit, before establishing themselves with their own child prostitutes from Nigeria (Oviawe and Iyare, 1999). The possibility of “promotion” from being a prostitute to becoming a controller, and later a madam, is an important motivation to stick it out.

[...]

Although the madam may increase the debt as punishment for bad behaviour or in other ways extend the payback period, it is usually only a matter of time before the pact is ended. Once the debt is completely paid back, this is often marked with a big party hosted by the madam or several madams together. All the women are invited, and whoever has paid back her debt will hand over a gift to her madam (Prina, 2003)."

from:
IOM | Jørgen Carling | 2006
Migration, Human Smuggling and Trafficking from Nigeria to Europe
(http://www.diversite.be/diversiteit/files/File/MH_TEH/documentatie/mrs 23%5B1%5D.pdf)

Sorry to burst your little bubble, tallard, you man-hating little idiot.

(by the way, my two cents vis-à-vis the flick: great performance by Rachel Weisz wasted in a terrible dud that doesn't know what to do with an interesting subject)

Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to (P. Green)

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[–] tallard 11 years ago

Not a "man hater" you women hating "little idiot"
See how weak your argument is?
If you think the movie is a dud, then you are a misogynist MRM troll.
And frankly, I have nothing but disgust for misogynists, though I do like males who are decent human beings. But mostly, I dislike what patriarchy has done to human civilisation.

So I'm blocking you now, because the mere thought of having you appear in my inbox is a huge waste of my time.
***So I've seen 4 movies/wk in theatre for a 1/4 century, call me crazy?**

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[–] Thomas Dunson 11 years ago

Thanks for giving me a good laugh, tallard. To spare yourself from further ridicule, I'd delete that post if I were you, as it's painfully obvious you didn't even begin to grasp what my "argument" was.

(Also, great thinking on display here: "If you think the movie is a dud, then you are a misogynist MRM troll.")

Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to (P. Green)

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[–] melissa-183 13 years ago

Eastern European culture?
This happens all over the world when some men get the chance (in this movie you saw the americans, english and dutch abusing these poor girls!).

I think some sick men just see their chance in a situation like this (or wartime itself) and don't have the courage to do things like this in their own country cause it's harder.
The girls are young and pretty, all the guys are probably drunk and get excited and encouraged by others. For some guys that's enough and they feel such a power by raping and torturing girls.

I think this is a very good film but I regret seeing it, I feel awful....

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[–] ats02171 13 years ago

They don't care. They have the money to get what ever the want from women that have a choice in what they do with their bodies. They don't care if they get a a disease or not. they don't care where the girls came from or what they want. They don't care at all.

Sorry if you was looking for a better explanation.

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[–] soulthinker 13 years ago

Such crimes are done with impunity and immunity from getting in trouble. The wives of those men would never know if that social disease would give them health problems in the future.

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[–] dileas 13 years ago

Some of the most artistic photographs I've seen (nude and non-nude) show women in sand, dirt, mud, dust ... all kinds of "unsanitary conditions". It depends on the woman, and on the context.

Of course, in real life, the biggest immediate turn-off would probably be the SMELL rather than the appearance. I've actually heard comment to that effect from soldiers returning from peacekeeping missions in Bosnia - most of them say something along the lines of "they have beautiful women, but they REALLY need deodorant!".

Ignoring all that, some of the commenters have rightly pointed out that rape is more about control than sex. Some of the extreme fetishes that people engage in (using bodily wastes, for example) are certainly "unclean", but a certain subset of the population is aroused by such things because it simulates control and degradation.

Additionally, a man who hasn't had sex for a long time will generally not be too picky. All those jokes about Scotsmen with sheep didn't arise from nowhere. Though these days such behavior may be rare in the western world, men in more oppressive nations (especially theocratic states like Afghanistan, etc) will make to with whatever is at hand. If a man is willing to have intercourse with an animal, why would he turn down a "dirty" prostitute?

Lastly, the phenomenon isn't limited to men. I've met no shortage of women who would be more than happy to jump a "dirty" football player post-game, or a soldier coming out of the field who hasn't showered in 2 weeks. Again, it depends on the person and the context.

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