MovieChat Forums > Higher Learning (1995) Discussion > Wait! THAT WAS RAPE? Nah, sorry, but i...

Wait! THAT WAS RAPE? Nah, sorry, but it wasn't.


I don't really blame the fictional character for feeling she was raped, I blame the bad writers for making the transition from ecstasy to screams of violation so abrupt.

The couple goes upstairs to have sex. The guy pulls the girl's panties down to the sounds of her wanting moans. They begin to have actual intercourse with no problem, until the question of a condom comes to light. The guy continues to get his groove on (wrong wrong wrong on his part) the girl screams for him to get a condom and suddenly it's rape. Not only is this girl really disturbed, but the guy is a moron. DUDE THE CHICK WANTS YOU, stop get a rubber slip it on and you're gravy. No, instead the writers made the guy a moron who goes deaf when he has sex, and the girl an over-reactor who goes from wanting it to calling it rape because the guy goes raw dogs. If the movie wanted to be powerful and show a rape scene, SHOW A RAPE SCENE. This is an insult to women who have actually been raped.



If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

reply

It was rape. When a woman tells a man to to stop and he won't, that is rape. It doesn't matter if it started out consensual, every human being is allowed to change their mind. Even if it wasn't because of the condom factor (which is a very valid reason since she was trying to avoid both pregnancy and disease) if she just changed her mind because she felt like it was the right thing to do (second thoughts that came a little slow because she was drunk) then it's still her right. You can call her a tease if you want to, but only if the guy did as she said and got off her. Since he didn't, you can call her a rape victim because that's what she is.

@Lisaluv1: Um...yeah, so it's her fault for not being on the pill. That makes a lot of sense...no wait it *beep* doesn't. How in the hell would that protect her against anything other than pregnancy? What about diseases? Hmmm? Or are you the kind of moron who thinks the pill covers that too? It doesn't matter her reason for wanting to stop, she doesn't owe him sex just because she initially wanted it. Once she doesn't he has no right to continue with it. You shouldn't be allowed to have a vagina.

reply

Sorry didn't notice this before but maybe I already addressed it ~ but there are other ways women can protect themselves w/ female condom. Why are we (men and women) always expecting the other individual to take care of us.

Men could argue that a woman raped him and didn't allow him to protect himself by offering to put a condom on him or other. It's sad that ppl are living the lie that Men are always the evil ones when it comes to sexual content. Now in the case of this movie ~ Yes it's shown that a man did wrong. But if we are to view it to the issue that she was willing to go all the way but for fact he would not put on condom is mere crazy. As I stated in previous comment ~ she could have protected herself.


Poop in his hand ... Poop in his hand

reply

Was not rape, at all. It's like giving a friend $20 and then as they are spending it, realising you need it after all and charging him with theft.

You consent to sex, you cannot un-consent during the sex. He didn't hit her or start choking her, he continued to have sex with her in exactly the same way they started and she consented to.

reply

You consent to sex, you cannot un-consent during the sex.

Bullsh^t. A person has a right to their own body 100% of the time. I have as much right to pull out and go home as she has every right to evict me from her body. There is no qualification to this.

He didn't hit her or start choking her

Rape does not require striking or choking. It is violent in its own right.

he continued to have sex with her in exactly the same way they started and she consented to.

Wrong. She asked him to put on a condom. He refused. At that point, she refused sex. He forced sex upon her. He is a rapist.


It makes absolutely no difference WHEN a person says "no" or "stop". Once that word is uttered, the only thing to do is to stop what you are doing and back away. Then you can renegotiate the terms.


And yes, if I give my friend $20 so they can pay their rent and they start buying beer, I most certainly have a right to say "no" and take it back. And if he refused, I could involve the police (who would call it a civil matter) and take it to civil court under a breach of contract.

Just as him forcing unprotected sex with her would be a breach of contract, as protection was a part of the conditions for having sex.


And frankly, Darkfalz1979, you sound old enough to know better.




Aye. The haggis is in the fire for sure.

reply

She was planning on having sex with him until he couldn't produce a condom. Remember, she was raised in a time when the media and schools indoctrinated every student with the idea that unprotected sex meant you would get AIDS. We don't see that level of propaganda today, but in the 90's, the school hallways were wallpapered with posters saying such.

When he didn't dress up his little soldier and forced himself on/in her anyway, the terms of those sexual negotiations were breached. He should have just settled for feeling her up and making out. She may have given in to him later, if only he kept things hot and sexy. If not, he could have relieved himself before returning to the party.
Either way, he was in the wrong. He was a rapist. he deserves jail time in a 'pound-your ass' prison and the label of "sex offender" on his record.

There is no excuse for his behavior and she had every right to say "no" at any time during the encounter.


Aye. The haggis is in the fire for sure.

reply

[deleted]

Here is common sense:

At one point during the act of intercourse, the female character clearly shouts out "NO!" and "STOP!", but the male character continues having sex with her. He even physically restrains her after a point, presumably in the hopes of finishing the task at hand despite her pleas for him to cease the act of intercourse.

That's called rape. End of story.

reply

[deleted]

A person can take control of their body whenever they damned well feel like it. His intoxication does not excuse rape. I find it deplorable that people want to make excuses to dance around the age-old truth that "no means no".

But I will also blame the giggly girl culture that makes a game of saying "no", which only encourages the rape culture. If you mean "no" then don't giggle and be coy with it in some lame attempt to make a pursuit-game out of it. If you want to play the giggle-game, then don't perpetuate the rape-culture by using "no" as a tool to make yourself feel desired. You're doing no one any favors.



Aye. The haggis is in the fire for sure.

reply

[deleted]

anyone here ever have a girl say no in the middle of sex? i doubt anybody here has ever had a girl tell them no while already going at it....

(on a side note, i would wager that there more girls that were slapping hands away at first, only to stop slapping hands away after, shall we say, enough reluctance to NOT seem easy)

the reason most people have never encountered the 'no' DURING sex is b/c it's ridiculous...forget what is rape and not, it's common sense....everyone is very quick to mention that if a girl says no, before or during sex then the man should stop immediately...THIS IS NOT SIMPLE....well, to that i say, if it's the man's responsibility to stop 'immediately' mid-coitus, then the woman should have the responsibility to say NO before sex...i don't think that's asking for too much, right?

should the guy have gotten a condom out.? abso-f'in-lutely, stupid idiot guy...but if we're saying that this dude should be found guilty and serve the max. term for rape ? no f'in way....put it on his record (which is a horrible thing as is), but to serve time too - two drunk college kids where the girl already had the dude inside her - no way.



it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it

reply

one other thing, since i'm a little late to this party...

the response to any problematic issue is not "what if it was your mom/dad/sister/dog/best friend", to anything...capital punishment, rape, bullying, whatever...

the pure point of law and punishment is so that all people will be treated equially under the law right? i'm sure i've heard that somewhere

if all lawmakers thought "what if my mom was the criminal?" or "what if my sister was the victim?" then there would be either no punishments at all or too heavy handed punishments for everyone...when you inject a person you know or love into the equation, of course your objectiveness is ruined and you're going to have a personal stake in the matter...

so let's try and work on that.


it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it

reply

I always use something a bit more personal- What if it were MY ASS? I think I have every right to tell a guy to get his filthy uncovered c^ck out of my ass and his refusal makes it a rape.

My ass- a woman's vagina...whatever. You either own your body or you are property.



Speak louder, Mr. Hart! Fill the room with your intelligence!

reply

gabby, if that really was you trying to make a point, that is the most absurd, ridiculous analogy i have ever heard

BUT, if you want to use your a$$ as the example fine...if you let a dude putitin your bum FIRST...and THEN, say " nope, i don't like it, it's tearing me up" then i stick to everything i said previously

it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it

reply

My point was why use someone else as an example ("what if it was your mom, your daughter, etc..) What if it were me?

had I done that to a girl, I would know I was doing wrong. If I were that girl, I would know he was doing wrong.



Speak louder, Mr. Hart! Fill the room with your intelligence!

reply

I haven't seen the movie but it sounds like it was rape if she tried to stop him before it got serious and she has every right to say no because he is refusing to wear a condom. That being said, we've all heard the stories of college girls going to frat parties and college parties and getting raped. It seems to happen a lot. Well stop going to these freakin' parties! If you know that the probablility of getting raped at a party where everyone is getting bombed goes up, don't attend the parties in the first place. If you think you can go to some party where you and all the guys there are going to get very drunk and not expect stupid to happen, you are deluding yourself. I think some college girls who get raped in these situations (and I'm not talking about date-rape, just these drinking parties) are walking into that situation on their own.

I've attended college. I'm 46. You don't have to go to drinking parties just because you are in college. It's not like a requirement or anything.

"You think you know, what you are, what's to come--You haven't even begun." BtVS

reply

[deleted]



It's definitely rape. She specifically asks him to put on a condom before they start and then during and then SCREAMS for him to stop. Also he knew she was wasted and practically dragged her to his room. He was a pig and the black guys shoulda whooped his rapist ass.

reply

NOT rape.

reply

The definition of rape is having sex with someone without there consent. She told him to stop clearly taking away her consent and he continued so that is by definition rape. Anyone should have the right to change their mind at any point and who would carry on with someone who is telling them to stop besides a rapist?

Just because she consented to sexual activity before and would have consented to sex does not mean that him continuing is any less painful, humiliating or traumatizing. So why should it be treated less seriously.

People talk like its unreasonable of her to only agree to sex if she's allowed to protect herself from STD's. Or that its not that simple that a man can stop during sex. It happens all the time when kids go to their parents bedroom in the middle of the night and most men will stop if asked to cause they aren't rapists.

"An insult to true victims" is what people always come out with when they are trying to trivialize certain types of rape. You went to organizations who deal with "true victims of rape" everyday - which are staffed largely by survivors of sexual abuse - and said what you say in this post and they'd order you out.

Do research into the subject of rape and you'll find out that what he did does fit the definition of rape, that being raped under those circumstances is no less traumatic than being raped by a stranger in fact if anything its worse because people are more likely to be blamed and not taken seriously and that the perpetrator is a danger to society.

To people mentioning false accusations. All the research that hasn't been debunked shows that about 2-8% of rape accusations are false. About the same number as for any other offense.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

So at what magical point does a person surrender their right to their own body?



"De gustibus non disputandum est"
#3

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

At what point does the sex start? Penetration? Feeling up a boob? Kissing? Going upstairs? Walking into a frat house party? I think in this case the moment he didn't produce a jimmy for his johnson (before penetration), the line was drawn and he crossed it.

But "no" has no other definition. If he was smart he would have kept working on her without penetration to the point where she says "oh, what the hell. Why not" and then he would have gotten his wick wet without the screams of rape. Or he would have respected her and left to find another partner more willing to perform lewd and lascivious acts without putting all these prophylactic demands on him.

However you slice it, when she says "no...stop!" that does not mean three more pumps. Just like prison rape.



"De gustibus non est disputandum"
#3

reply

[deleted]