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"North by Northwest" Disappears from the TCM Hub on HBO Max

posted 2 years ago by ecarle (14979)
20 replies | jump to latest

Alfred Hitchcock worked at many movie studios, but in his final 25 years, it was mainly Warner Brothers, Paramount, and Universal (in chronological order.)

Universal teamed up with Hitchocck, and later his estate, to secure rights to all the Paramount films except for To Catch a Thief(Cary Grant had an interest in that one) , and the Warners movies were kept at Warners.

But during this period, Hitchcock made one -- and only one -- movie for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer(MGM): North by Northwest.

MGM pulled out all the stops for this one-time deal with the Master of Suspense. They wanted him bad, so they gave him a budget that allowed for hiring Cary Grant(hero), Eva Marie Saint(heroine) AND James Mason(villain). The budget also allowed for filming all over the United States, from New York to Chicago to Mount Rushmore to California (where Bakersfield subbed for an Indiana prarie for a crop duster attack.)

MGM having North by Northwest always sort of "gets in the way" of releasing a "perfect package" of late Hitchcock classics: The Universal/Paramount package captures Rear Window, Vertigo, Psycho, and The Birds...but special deals always have to be cut to get NXNW into a DVD set with those others.

But wait, there's more: on the DVD front, MGM seems to have been bought up by Time/Warner. The Warner Brothers shield is now the first thing you see when the DVD index screen comes up.

Turner Classic Movies mainly owns MGM and Warners movies. They have to "reach out" to secure the Universal/Paramounts for showing on TCM.

And thus, for years, the crown jewel of Hitchcock movies on TCM is : North by Northwest. Its the best and the biggest Hitchcock TCM has and they show clips from it a LOT during commercials.

NXNW is shown SOMETIMES on TCM, but it was available -- for over a year -- ALL the time on the TCM "Hub" in the HBO Max Streaming service.

During the past year, I would occasionally jump over to HBO Max just to watch some (not all) of NXNW on the TCM Hub.

And now its gone. Disappeared from the streaming menu on HBO Max.

Where has North by Northwest gone?

Scarier question: now that streaming services seem to "lock down all movies' -- can they just take North by Northwest AWAY from us ...indefinitely?

[–] Interlepos (1807) 2 years ago

That is a good question. The history of copyright regarding North by Northwest is interesting.

Streaming services, though, always seem to be undependable. Films are added, then others are taken away. If you live in another country, you have a totally different library. Nothing seems to be constant.

This is why physical media is still very important. I am very happy that we have the old blu-ray of North by Northwest. Hopefully, one day, the film will be released in 4K - although I am not holding my breath.

[–] ElizabethJoestar (946) 2 years ago

Yep, if you love a movie, keep a physical copy. Streaming is useful in many ways, but I never trust any service to retain what i like.

[–] Interlepos (1807) 2 years ago

Yeah, absolutely. So many films and shows that you can't find on streaming at all. The choices can be really poor. Physical editions will be important long into the future.

[–] [email protected] (5871) 2 years ago

I haven't seen NXNW in a long time. It is a superb piece of cinema.

Funny though, I was just thinking about it the other day. I've been watching Psych, the USA series about the fake psychic detective. I have the series and the writers and star, James Roday, love to include references (and little homages) to their favorite films in the episodes.

The episode in question involved them hunting a mysterious killer. He was leaving clues for them from Hitchcock films. In one scene, Detective Lassiter is running across a playground and a small toy remote control plane is bearing dow on him. He runs and dives for cover. There's a little boy with his remote control device standing nearby operating the plane.

He calls out to the other detective, "Arrest that kid!" lol

You really have achieved film immortality when a scene from an old movie you directed is included in a TV show by a bunch of writers who weren't even BORN when it was made!

[–] stevewyzard (1591) 2 years ago

Two words: PHYSICAL MEDIA.

[–] Kowalski (75537) 2 years ago

🔥

[–] thingmakersback (1373) 2 years ago

Two more words: DIGITAL BACKUP. I won't be living forever but, with appropriate turnovers and multiple backups, my digital collection will survive me as surely as any other system.

DIGITAL or PHYSICAL, you cannot trust to streaming or any system where your collection can be modified or deleted by someone else.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Get a DVD. And get it soon. They want to remove any and all records of anything that happened before this morning so they can constantly manipulate (i.e., revise) history.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Streaming services, though, always seem to be undependable. Films are added, then others are taken away. If you live in another country, you have a totally different library. Nothing seems to be constant.

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This is why physical media is still very important. I am very happy that we have the old blu-ray of North by Northwest. Hopefully, one day, the film will be released in 4K - although I am not holding my breath.

--

Yep, if you love a movie, keep a physical copy. Streaming is useful in many ways, but I never trust any service to retain what i like.

--
Yeah, absolutely. So many films and shows that you can't find on streaming at all. The choices can be really poor. Physical editions will be important long into the future.

--

I enjoyed this flurry of comments and I return to note: I certainly agree, and I DO have DVDS of my favorite movies -- including North by Northwest(which is one of which I have SEVERAL copies, I would buy a new version whenever it came out on DVD.)

But there are "side issues":

ONE: A fear that they are going to take DVDS AWAY. I've been able to buy "four discs for one low price" of, say, Steve McQueen movies and it is clear that the packagers don't think that four old Steve McQueen movies are much worth publishing. And of course in some cases, you can ONLY order a DVD "special order" from the studio. (Example: 1967's Hotel, which I ordered from Warners directly.)

TWO: Some of my DVDS have started screwing up: various sequences "jam up" and won't play, the whole DISC won't play. So owning the DVD isn't enough. A fear: all my DVDS of North by Northwest jam up and break down -- and streaming is the only place to go.

THREE: I LIKE streaming movies because then I don't HAVE to play my DVD and I figure "I'm saving a play that might wear the DVD out further."

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

FOUR: I DON'T like streaming movies because they are a 'step back": Whereas with a DVD, I can "skip to a scene"(say the crop duster or Mount Rushmore in NXNW), and quickly enjoy it. With streaming, I have to "fast forward" and re-wind, just like with an OLD VHS TAPE! We went backwards in convenience! (And boy, if one wants to just watch the Mount Rushmore sequence in NXNW on streaming, that's a LONG fast forward to the end.)

Any way you cut it -- digital media? -- I think having an actual copy is the way to go. And I DO have them of NXNW and other favorites.

But what if those break down? And streaming "takes movies away" and makes us pay everytime or WAIT for years to get a movie.

Best to keep the memories.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Speaking of Warner Brothers' ownership of an MGM movie:

North by Northwest was the only Hitchcock movie to be cited -- twice - during the 2023 Oscar ceremony.

The first time was very odd:

They ran a quick clip from the crop duster chasing Cary Grant -- in a collection of clips honoring Warner Brothers 100th Anniversary. Problem is -- Hitchcock made NXNW for MGM!(The movie opens with a green special effects version of Leo the Lion roaring which is the greatest use of that Lion in movie history -- he's in black and white against a green map of latitude and longitude...courtesy of Saul Bass.)

Anyway, Warners is claiming NXNW for its own now(they own it, the DVD is a Warner Brothers DVD) and eventually NXNW won't be remembered as an MGM movie at all.

Just as long as they NEVER cut that opening Leo the Lion green shot...its one of the best parts of the movie(especially with Bernard Herrmann's music) and the entire sequence stands as my favorite credits sequence of all time (1978's Superman came close...but runs too long.)

Meanwhile: NXNW -- that SAME clip of Cary running and ducking the crop duster -- turned up in a clips package as part of a wrist watch commercial.

I suppose the NXNW crop duster shot will last as long as Janet screaming in the shower. you DO get a two-fer with the crop duster: Hitchcock....and Cary Grant, arguably the Compleat Movie star of his generation (cuter than Bogie and Spencer Tracy, able to take his shirt off when Jimmy Stewart could not -- and ALSO a great movie star actor.)

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Get a DVD. And get it soon. They want to remove any and all records of anything that happened before this morning so they can constantly manipulate (i.e., revise) history.

---

This is actually a possibility with North by Northwest:

Mount Rushmore -- and the four Presidential faces that are on it -- has/have gotten controversial in some quarters in recent years.

The placement of Mount Rushmore in/near Native American tribal lands has also been a matter of controversy. It is my understanding that the new Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences museum elected to present North by Northwest in the context of Native American issues. Which is rather "off point" to that movie itself.

What's interesting is that NXNW stars Cary Grant, Eva Marie Saint, and James Mason all posed in traditional Native American headdresses AT Mount Rushmore in 1958 while filming there -- supporting the tribes and being supported BY them.

That was then...this is now.

[–] Roguemail (1614) 2 years ago

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Surely streaming services only retain rights to movies for a limited time, same as when they are sold to TV?

I see lots of movies being removed from other streaming services, even giving a 'last chance to see' message

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You're absolutely right about that -- especially the "last time to see" message -- and it is my fault that I did NOT specify what makes this North by Northwest deal different. Here goes:

Yes from what I've seen most streaming services indeed only have movies for a limited time, and rotate them in and out, sometimes for a month, sometimes maybe two months, and then "gone for a year or so." And then they come back.

On Netflix recently, they had my favorite movie of 1966 -- The Professionals -- on for about two months, then it got the "last time to see" warning, then it "went away." Who knows WHEN they will bring it back.

Right now, they've got one of my favorite movies of 1973 - The Sting -- on, and it hasn't left yet.

Though I have both The Professionals and The Sting on DVD , it has been "easier" (with less wear and tear on the DVDs) to watch these movies on streaming. I also enjoyed just "stopping by" about once a day to watch JUST the credit sequences of these two classics.

But now The Professionals is gone, and I assume soon The Sting will be. And I'll have to switch to my DVDS and simply wait for them to come around again on Netflix.

Here is what is different about North by Northwest on HBO Max:

As the only Hitchcock MGM movie, NXNW was "locked in" at Turner Classic Movies literally for DECADES - back to the 90's as the "flagship Hitchcock movie" on TCM. The other major Hitchcock movies from Paramount and Universal (Rear Window, Vertigo, Psycho, The Birds and others) were NOT permanently on TCM -- though TCM eventually started renting them and showing those occasionally.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

But North by Northwest was ALWAYS there on TCM as "the TCM Hitchcock battleship" and once HBO Max opened a couple of years ago ..North by Northwest was ALWAYS there in the "TCM hub" on HBO Max -- I assumed because it was ALWAYS there at TCM on cable. By "always there" I mean NXNW was always in the TCM hub (or simply available from the "Movies" screen) for about the two years so far of HBO Max existence. It never went away like The Professionals did on Netflix.

And it was a bit of a security blanket for me -- North by Northwest comes in at a near tie(with Psycho) as my favorite movie of all time -- to have it just sitting there on HBO Max for the taking, from time to time(again - giving my DVD a rest.)

With North by Northwest removed from the HBO Max TCM Hub I am wondering -- did Warners so completely take over NXNW from MGM ownership(and MGM doesn't much exist to make NEW movies anymore) that TCM lost the rights? And so HBO Max lost the rights?

That's what I'm wondering. We will see if NXNW ever comes back to HBO Max -- and if it doesn't, where will it go? Will one of the OTHER streaming services get it, if only for awhile in rotation?

BTW, if you go to HBO Max now , there is a screen to click on called "The Hitchcock Collection." That gets you some of the great 30's work(The 39 Steps, The Lady Vanishes, Sabotage) and...Foreign Correspondent(1940) and...that's it. I think all the Universal/Paramount movies are now over on Peacock. The rest? Scattered to the wind.

Interesting:

In his career, Hitchcock worked at every major American studio except one: Columbia.

He made multiple movies at Warner Brothers.
He made multiple movies at Paramount.
He made multiple movies at Universal.
He made one movie at 20th Century Fox (Lifeboat.) (He didn't get along with Darryl Zanuck; it was a one time deal.)
He made one movie at MGM (North by Northwest)
He made one movie at United Artists (Foreign Correspondent.)

But he never worked at Columbia -- perhaps didn't want to work with Harry Cohn? Columbia was pretty hot in the fifties(From Here to Eternity, On the Waterfront, Bridge on the River Kwai) and the 60's(Lawrence of Arabia, The Professionals)...but no Hitch.

[–] ccr1633 (1523) 2 years ago

With streaming, I have to "fast forward" and re-wind, just like with an OLD VHS TAPE!

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Not only that, but some apps like Amazon's are absolutely terrible. It's difficult to control how far forward or backward you go. In this day and age it's disgraceful that they don't provide better software with more responsive, pinpoint control. It's not like Amazon Prime is free...

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Exactly! Some of the streaming channels only advance the movie 15 seconds at a time before stopping to pause.
Others take forever to get to a scene with no "pinpoint control."

Conversely: One streaming service with movies -- I can't remember which one -- rather speedily can rush through the whole movie to get wherever you want , but not with pinpoint accuracy. I found I could fastforward the entire movie in less than a minute.

But there is another problem with fast-forwarding on streaming: sometimes doing that causes the channel to 'lose" the bandwidth; the movie turns off and you get that spinning circle that means you have to reboot.

DVD chapter stops really spoiled me, With a lot of movies, the first half hour or so is expository set up, so I jump ahead. The Sting doesn't really get going until Paul Newman shows up(Robert Redford carries a lot of set up scenes first) ; The Towering Inferno doesn't really get going until Steve McQueen shows up (PAUL NEWMAN carries a lot of set up scenes first -- McQueen gets Newman's late "Sting entrance.".

So I start those movies "late" using DVD chapter stops.

[–] xanthas (3215) 2 years ago

You can purchase it to stream through Amazon for $13. You can also rent it for a few dollars.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

You can purchase it to stream through Amazon for $13.

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Well, I'm glad to know its still out there, some way. But on HBO Max, if you subscribed TO HBO Max you got it "for free"(not really , though.)

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You can also rent it for a few dollars.

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I suppose you mean by Youtube.

The days of the blockbuster VHS/DVD rental store are over and I think Netflix discontinued its original "rent to receive a DVD by mail" service

So: streaming or buy the DVD remains the active way to "keep" North by Northwest for viewing.

Hope we get to keep DVDs in the marketplace.

And my OP question holds: I wonder why Time Warner/HBO Max pulled North by Northwest off of its service after having it there since HBO Max began....

[–] xanthas (3215) 2 years ago

No, I didn't mean blockbuster. 🤣 You can rent or buy it through Amazon streaming.

Some people like DVDs, but I don't like clutter, so I don't own a lot of them.