https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/bill-murray-accused-of-inappropriate-behavior-on-aziz-ansari-e2-80-99s-e2-80-98being-mortal-e2-80-99-e2-80-94-report/ar-AAWsgVn?ocid=uxbndlbing
Betcha it's true, there have been rumors about him for a long time, and rich old men with huge egos never know when to stop.
Bill cant get cancelled ..
Can he..?
A multi-million dollar movie project, employing hundreds of people....is coming to a screeching halt, because a legendary comic used some adult humor or was “inappropriate”, and society’s sensibilities are just too....delicate to handle it??
How about handling like adults....meet with Murray, hear his side, give him a chance to apologize....and try to repair and move on?
Instead, another legend will get cut down and buried..(publicly)...because we’ve all turned into pussies.
These days, Don Rickles wouldn’t last 5 minutes. Eddie Murphy wouldn’t last 5 minutes. Richard Pryor...not 5 minutes. Redd Foxx.....not 5 minutes. Sam Kinison.......
"How about handling like adults....?
How about Murray handling himself like an adult at work?
"How about Murray handling himself like an adult at work?"
I think people are just too....delicate....for that.
Well you were the one who suggested everyone to "behave like an adult", except Murray.
share“Adult” can mean....blue humor....”adult” can mean....adult subject matter. If people on a creative set, full of creative, esoteric artists...are too delicate to handle anything beyond a puritanical bubble.....they’re not going to fare well in the real world.
shareYOU SEEM AWFUL SET ON YOUR OPINION...CONSIDERING NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING YET.
shareI'd really like to see your HR file! If you think that's acceptable workplace behavior, you've probably got a sheaf of complaints and written warnings in there!
And why the hell should Bill Murray be able to get away with the shitty behavior that's considered unacceptable in real-world work environments, he's no better than the rest of us and shouldn't be given license to treat his co-workers like shit, because they're just as much creative, esoteric, artists as he is, and they shouldn't be forced to put up with creepy or nasty behavior from someone who's richer than they are, any more than your boss should be allowed to treat you like crap. I'm sick to fucking death of there being one law for the rich in this country and another for the poor, and I'm thrilled, THRILLED, every time a rich bastard gets called on behavior that shouldn't be allowable anywhere!
And funny thing, you never once suggested that he hasn't acted like a creep. You just think he should be able to get away with it, and DO think about that.
Honestly, I think you might need a little therapy. Calm down, and work on your issues.
shareWhat did he say?
shareInnocent until proven guilty.
How do you know he didn't handle himself like an adult at work?
An adult comedian. Is it still OK to joke on the set?
Are you trolling or are you some woke pos? Or one of these losers that spams celebrity actors' boards?
If you are trolling (or simply reporting news) that's OK.
Bill is great.
This is dumb.
shareSo many people on Twitter are jumping to completely speculative conclusions about this that it's ridiculous. People are so eager to get noticed on a trending topic in their benighted lives that they can't be bothered to even wait for facts to come out.
shareThey try to cancel Bill every few years. It never sticks.
shareAs just a Gen X bystander to the massive clash of two giant generations sensibilities (What is appropriate behavior? Should a adult not be offended by trivial slights or blue humor?)
Just how much money can be made by a cabal or a single person who files a claim of a "hostile work environment"?
You feed the monster, the monster grows.
I'm actually old, I entered the workforce in the era when sexual harrassment and hostile work environments were both legal and socially acceptable, and anyone who didn't like being the butt of crude jokes or being "playfully" groped, or being told to put out or find another job... was told to find another job if they didn't like it, and to get a sense of humor and stop being so uptight! Well that shit wasn't right then and it's not right now, and at least now there are laws to protect the dignity of working people and popular opinion has turned against the workplace assholes who thought they could get away with anything.
Of course SOME assholes miss the good old days when they could behave like they were at a strip club when on the job! Or at least, they wish they were in a position to act like Don Draper, and they support any rich bastard who actually does the things they wish they could do, because assholes support other assholes.
The big problem with this thinking is "hostile work environment" is a nebulas concept.
A concept that at its conception can only grow.
It will grow in meaning because lawyers get paid, plaintiffs get paid and new and more nuanced types of hostilities must be found to be offended by.
To Otter....Your post explains a lot. You’re crusty and bitter. You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Seek some therapy for your clear man-hating issues. It seems you’ve had experiences you should work through, along with anger issues.
Ultimately, we should wait and see what was actually said or done. Does an off-color joke or flirty remark warrant public outrage, the loss of a job, the shutting down of a multi-million dollar production and a lawsuit? These days....that is the kind of overreacting we’re looking at (and we wonder why the Europeans laugh at us).
Was the behavior exclusive to Murray? We don’t know, because we’re jumping to conclusions and condemnation before knowing the facts and hearing his side of the story.
If it’s a matter of him being....”mean”, people know what they’re getting when they hire Bill Murray. Sometimes, part of the genius comes with a price. But it’s not unusual for a movie set to have divas with tempers or personality conflicts. That can even be part of the creative process.
People like Shannon Doherty, Tyra Banks, Rosie O’Donnell, Christian Bale....and numerous others are known for being difficult onset. Brando....Crawford.....Davis....
Now, if we’re talking about something more egregious, physical or unlawful, let’s let due process play itself out before condemning Mr. Murray.
Oh yes, definitely investigate what was done, and give Murray a chance to apologize, reform, or leave voluntarily if the producers are satisfied he did something awful.
And again, you're not even suggesting that Murray did something wrong, in fact, you're basically admitting that you think he did with your "... you know what they're getting with Murray", you just think he should be able to get away with treating co-workers like shit, presumably because you'd like to get away with it yourself!
More fool you, then, because if you actually lived in an workplace where the high-ranking assholes were allowed to get away with this shit, do you think you'd be the one making cruel jokes at the expense of co-workers you disliked or found attractive? Well, of course you think you do, but that's where you're wrong. No, you'd be the one having the higher-ups make jokes about your inability to get laid, your comparative poverty, your, uh, manhood, and then you'd be fired for making a move on the receptionist the big boss wanted for himself. No, allowing sexual harassment and a hostile work environment doesn't make life more fun, except for the Murrays of the world, and you wouldn't be the Murray... you'd be one of his victims!
But of course you're to petty to see that, because you're filled with dreams of treating the people you work with like dirt, and your imagination doesn't include other people treating YOU like dirt because it's your fantasy. Instead you're doing what douches always do when called on their shit, saying that people like me aren't cool enough to have an opinion, but that's bullshit too. FYI the people like me aren't your enemies, they're the ones protecting YOUR rights.
'
"And again, you're not even suggesting that Murray did something wrong, in fact, you're basically admitting that you think he did with your "... you know what they're getting with Murray", you just think he should be able to get away with treating co-workers like shit, presumably because you'd like to get away with it yourself!"
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You're being hysterical, and hypocritical...and you're really not making much sense. I'm not suggesting BM did or did not do something. However, I HAVE suggested he's an unusual personality....and can be unpredictable. That's part of his genius, but when studios hire him...they are well aware he can be polarizing.
Performers can be eccentric and can take the creative process to heightened levels. They can also be egotists and opinionated. They work in an alternate universe while on a movie set. Emotions can run high during the creative process. People often fall in love (Example: Pitt and Joli). People often can't stand each other (Example: Mickey Rourke and Kim Bassinger). Arguments happen often. Rudeness can come into play. Bluntness can come into play. I'd venture to say....it's not an environment for the meek, or the delicate.
Since the beginning of film, movie sets have had countless stories of tantrums and difficult behavior (Chaplin...Crawford...Davis...Brando.....). A movie set amplifies the egos and attitudes of those who take the creative process very seriously. In short: Arguments happen. Rudeness happens. Such is life. Life on a movie set is just an amplified version. An alternate universe...a pressure cooker...and an environment where people have to work themselves up and into emotions (and then back out of them) at the snap of two fingers. Can this create heightened emotions? Arguments? Creative differences? Of course it can.
Bill Murray is eccentric...odd....creative....moody. It's part of his genius, and when a studio takes him on, they know they’re rolling the dice with his quirky, unpredictable personality….in the hopes of getting another amazing character/performance from him.
Your suggestion that I don’t even assume he did NOT do anything wrong…and that I’m simply justifying what he DID do is preposterous. I’ve maintained we should wait to hear the whole story before making judgments and condemning people. I DO suggest there’s a possibility someone MAY be overreacting to a known eccentric and creative genius. That is the way society is going. These days, an off-color joke or flirty comment can have consequences that are WAY disproportionate to the offense.
I’ve had several female co-workers (and even a supervisor) come on to me….tell me inappropriate things….make flirty jokes, etc. many times. I was adult enough to handle it. Often, the jokes were funny and harmless. When something happened that I felt DID cross the line, I spoke with that person one on one, and we handled it. I didn’t call the CEO, the press and a lawyer. Life can be rude….life can be blunt….and people can be inappropriate. It’s not for the meek or delicate.
We won’t know what happened on-set until we hear the full story, and both sides. What YOU appear to be doing…is condemning BM and judging him before the facts are made available. I think THAT is what bothers some people. And I think it stems from a resentment and bias you carry inside. That is why I suggest some therapy. It can help with all that anger.
You're still basically saying that Murray has the right to be a dick on the set, even though everyone else there is also a sensitive creative person who is at or near the top of their field. Movies aren't a one-man process, movies are a huge collaborative production, and everyone there should have the freedom to do their job at their highest capacity, and not be dragged down by one person's allegedly dickish behavior.
Regardless of what Murray did or didn't do, you're fucking defending his right to behave badly, and you are absolutely, positively, just plain wrong about that! Nobody should ever have the right to (allegedly) demean, harrass, humiliate, or make the working day difficult for their co-workers, whoever they are. So what if it's been tolerated in the past, slavery was tolerated in the past, sexual harassment and hostile work environments were tolerated in the past, and they're not tolerated now, wherever sanity holds sway. And maybe, it's now less tolerated in Hollywood, and I do hope you can bear the sight of Hollywood jerks being called on their shit because it's happening.
"You're still basically saying that Murray has the right to be a dick.......you're fucking defending his right to behave badly."
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Yes, 1000% yes, I am.
I work with jerks every day. And I defend their right to be different than me....I defend their right to have a bad day....I defend their right to occasionally be rude, inappropriate and even offensive. I defend their right to potentially misread a cue and say or do something flirty that was not welcomed.
And, if I hire someone who has a reputation of being difficult, even offensive, to work with....but I'm willing to take that risk because he/she is a consistently high performer, I will assume some of the blame and responsibility if that person....is difficult to work with.
What I WON'T do is demand that everyone I come in contact with....dumb down, filter and homogenize the good, bad and crazy parts of what makes them an individual and dynamic person....to the lowest common denominator, so that there's zero risk of me ever getting offended.
No. Instead....I defend my right to push back. To stand up. It takes an awful lot to cross the line with me. I think dirty jokes are funny. I rarely mind people swearing, because I get it. And, I swear myself. If someone flirts with me, or says something sexually suggestive, I tend to take it as flattering, and then I move on. If it crosses a line or makes me feel uncomfortable, I have a conversation with them. What I do NOT do....is call the CEO, call the press, call a lawyer and call TMZ. What I do not do...is overreact, or try to cash in.
I have been involved in productions (mostly stage, but sometimes screen)...and I've seen firsthand, the creative process in these environments create an alternate and heightened universe. Tempers flare, romances happen. Cursing is heard. Arguments happen. Partying, booze and drugs...happen. It's not an environment for the meek, or delicate. Nor is life.
I'm not excusing bad behavior.
I am defending the right of people to be less than perfect. To have bad days. To swear. To occasionally be mean. But also, their right to apologize. To explain a misunderstanding. To have an opportunity to understand where they erred, and to voice their side of the story.
We see it every day. People are mean, impatient, entitled….rude, opinionated…..bullish. But they also can be kind, patient, generous, etc. I understand that I will encounter the good and bad in people every day, even at work. But I’m not delicate, and it takes a LOT to upset me…at work or otherwise. If something DOES upset me, or affect my ability to do my job, I’m confident in my ability to address the issue.
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“everyone else there is also a sensitive creative person who is at or near the top of their field. Movies aren't a one-man process, movies are a huge collaborative production, and everyone there should have the freedom to do their job at their highest capacity, and not be dragged down by one person's allegedly dickish behavior.”
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No one is suggesting otherwise. And I can assure you….each of those creative, sensitive people have had their moments as well. Moments of anger…disagreement…inappropriate humor, etc. EVERYONE has. Should it cost them their jobs? Careers? Is this where we want society to go? Everyone should be homogenized and filtered to a point where they can’t possibly offend anyone, ever? Where would that leave comedy? Art? Literature? Heck….everyday living. Life would be pretty dull and emotionless.
Heck, what if I said your cursing in this thread seriously offends me? Would that make YOU a jerk? Or would it make ME overly sensitive? It’s subjective. But I’ll defend your right to swear…and my right to let you know it bothers me (and give you a chance to remedy the situation).
Otter, it almost feels like we live on two different planets we are so far apart on this. I think we should simply agree to disagree. I tend to enjoy your posts in general on other threads…but I’m simply done with this one.
You must have led a very sheltered life, if you've never dealt with the kind of asshole who'll deprive you of your livelihood if you push back. FYI the existence of such people is why there are laws against the worst workplace abuses, and company/industry standards of conduct, and tough shit if you don't like having to be polite at work, because you do whether you like it or not.
Plus, you seem to think that "high performers" can't possibly overcome unless they're allowed to be complete assholes to their co-workers, and that's bulkshit, too. The only reason anyone's performance would suffer if they're called on their shit is if they threw a hissy fit and refused to do their best work, like a fucking two-year-old.
Anyway, I've wasted enough time on you, you defender of assholery. Fuck off, shut your trap, get out of my life, bugger off, get lost. Before I drop a house on you!
The more upset and hysterical you become, the more desperate you sound. I think You’re just old and miserable.
Once again, you failed to understand a very simple point (regarding a studio hiring someone like BM knowing full well he can be difficult to work with). If he/she does that, they should not be surprised if BM ends up being....difficult to work with. (They were willing to take the chance....because he can be great at times, and they felt the risk was worth it). Hence, the studio then bears some responsibility.
No one said ANYTHING about his performance suffering if he had to reign in his personality/behavior, etc. Are you really this stupid? The point was simply: Everyone involved with the film got onboard, knowing full well about BM’s anger issues. But they took that chance because of the performances he’s capable of.
I tried to be civil, and yet you go ballistic at every chance. That is the sound of a loser—in life and in this conversation. Now, go get some therapy.
I think your anger issues may be worse than BM (which also makes you a hypocrite). And, I think people are getting a bit tired of you.
Here, Defender of Assholes, have a seat.
https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.086049c02d259569be01a4b6d11c2ee9?rik=Vrn3fn9gFmgKgg&pid=ImgRaw&r=0
Sit, relax the muscles, and bear down good and hard...
[deleted]
"Of course SOME assholes miss the good old days when they could behave like they were at a strip club"
Of course, SOME assholes exploit the good new days when they can treat every interaction as if it were a group therapy session and be assured of an audience that considers their perception of even the slightest "inappropriate" behavior as something worthy of cancellation and legal action.
I simply don't care anymore, unless he raped or killed someone. And by rape I mean actual rape and not tapping somebody on the shoulder without their consent.
shareIt’s seems crazy, but with the way people are and what they complain about these days, I feel the same way. 🤣
Bill Murray would have to turn out to be a serial rapist murderer for me to turn on him.
Murray's real mistake was agreeing to work with two talentless virtue signaling hacks like Aziz Ansari and Seth Rogaine in the first place.
share