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How can atheists be so arrogant as to think they know better than SCRIPTURE?


We all go to school and are taught the scripture, the word of God. Then, some of us feel rebellious and decide that our little ol' "research" somehow outweighs His word. Laughable.

Just what is it that manifests this absolute arrogance? We're mere humans given the privilege of being here, while His word is law. I truly hope that these deeply misguided contrarians will repent before the Judgement Day.

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No, many people are not taught "the word of god" and atheists, by definition, reject the proposition that the bible constitutes "the word of god".

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How utterly, hopelessly arrogant. You are not Him. You don't come close.

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There is no "him" as far as I am concerned. Muslims would say the same about your arrogance.

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Well, it's probably the same kind of arrogance that you have for not believing in Jupiter or Ganesha or Krishna or Mithras or Marduk or Ishtar or Baal or El or Tefnut or Diana the Huntress or the hundreds of other gods of the hundreds of other religions you presumably don't believe in.

Just count yourself lucky you were born in a time and in a region of Earth where you were taught the one true religion... because you're just one god away from being an atheist too.

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Your ignorance astounds. I'd pray for you, and plead with Him to forgive you, but I doubt your soul can be saved.

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You may be right and he's just trolling, but he may be religious at the same time, because religiosity and the capacity to troll have always gone hand-in-glove (and in your pocket). (This was a reply to Capuchin. I don't know how it ended up here.)

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I don't think you understand the meaning of the word ignorant.

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Did ye, aye?

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You left out Crom. He is mighty and lives up high on his mountain.

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Ah. Crom is a good one.

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Because it's not the words of "God" but of writers in the Classical Era (500 BCE to 500 CE) who made up out of whole cloth, or wrote down tales that were only til then passed on orally, explanations for everything we know now through empirical science. You're the contrarian if you reject that because the Bible stories soothe your faith. You're free to live in that insular world of make-believe, but I'm sure in your non-anonymous persona, acting outside of whatever wacky church you belong to, being in the real world, you would not ask such a ridiculous question.

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I may be wrong, but think we should probably take the OP's religiosity with a pinch of salt. Unless they've accidentally named themselves after a Satanic ritual. I don't think any true Christian believer would do that on purpose.

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He should have named himself Mass of Color.

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so you are saying the Bible was written by a bunch of people over the course of a 1000 years? can you provide this empirical science? also why would people write a fictional book and why would people translate it in the 1500's and then call it a Bible?

why would people write something as complex as the Bible?

I assume you have never read it nor studied it.

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You believe in the Bible and you're asking others for empirical proof? Lol!

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so you have no evidence? thought so...lol

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>so you are saying the Bible was written by a bunch of people over the course of a 1000 years? can you provide this empirical science? also why would people write a fictional book and why would people translate it in the 1500's and then call it a Bible?

Are you asking.... why would people write books? That's what it effectively amounts to. The collective authorship of the Bible is well understood, you know. Are you genuinely suggesting you think it ascended from heaven with no authors?

>why would people write something as complex as the Bible?

People have written books now far more complex than the Bible.

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"The collective authorship of the Bible is well understood, you know. Are you genuinely suggesting you think it ascended from heaven with no authors?"

You're really talking out of both sides of your mouth here. 🙄

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How? JoWilli seemed to be asking how Thai knows the bible had authors.

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I think what he's actually saying is, "Show me empirical proof that it's not inspired."

Give me an example of a book "more complex" than the Bible. Did you know it's still a best seller and also strangely, the most often shoplifted book? Which "more complex" book of yours has that kind of appeal and endurance?

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>I think what he's actually saying is, "Show me empirical proof that it's not inspired."

How is one supposed to do that? How is one supposed to disprove that?

>Give me an example of a book "more complex" than the Bible. Did you know it's still a best seller and also strangely, the most often shoplifted book? Which "more complex" book of yours has that kind of appeal and endurance?

How are we measuring complexity? Any number of scientific books or philosophical books would outdo it.

And we're not talking about popularity. That wasn't part of the point.

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Well then, specify one of those scientific or philosophical books. You can't do it. I've read a number of them, The Naked Ape for example. It was bogus scientists that created the hoax of the Piltdown Man. It took the scientific community that blindly accepted it, 30 years to finally admit it as such.



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>Well then, specify one of those scientific or philosophical books. You can't do it. I've read a number of them, The Naked Ape for example.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/astrophysics-for-physicists/9F6DBBDAAF177504899F5BB40B3BDE33

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Archaeology_of_Knowledge

Why wouldn't these be immediately more complicated?

How are we judging "complex" here? What makes the Bible the most complex book on earth? What even makes it inherently complex to more comparable religious literature?

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You went from "more complex" to now, "most complex" to "inherently complex." I never made any of those claims. That's all coming from you, so why are you asking me these questions?

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You asked me for a book "more complex" than the bible. The implication seemed to be here that you thought it was somehow the most complicated book ever. A lot of scientific peer-reviewed material and literature would win here.

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All of these variations of complexity came from you to begin with. Have you even read both the Bible and that book in their entirety in order to make that comparison and claim? I doubt it. You just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Speaking of books, you're a textbook pseudo-intellectual.

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Have you read all the books that you suggested can't be as complex as the Bible? I think it's rather more presumptious to imply the Bible is the most complex book ever written vs disputing that claim.

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You answered my question with a question, a typical nonanswer, which confirms my suspicion that you never read either book in their entirety, if at all.

Now fuck off, you time wasting asshole.

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I'll do whatever the fuck I like, and without your permission.

No, I've not read most academic books or pieces of literature. I still hold that they're highly likely, depending on their subject, and author - more complex than the bible or any other piece of religious literature.

And you still haven't told me how you've judged that the bible is the most complex book ever written (which you did very much imply).

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You’re trolling right?

Just by reading your name, your thread and your replies it is obvious you’re not even a Christian.

You simply come across as an arrogant, judgmental and condescending troll.

And that’s the God honest truth.

Learn some manners, learn to be kind and come back again.

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Only He can judge. Your human arrogance will serve you poorly on Judgement Day.

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Ok, so trolling. I get it.

Move along now.

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+3 for the clear trolling...

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Not true! Osiris can also judge and he's stronger than your pathetic God, whatever you call him, I forget. Huey? Yowie? Freeway? Yeehaw?

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Wow, that might be the harshest post I've ever seen from you (not that you're wrong). I had to do a double take.

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Haha, you clearly missed my exchange with Db20 last week!

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+1 for the clear trolling...

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SCRIPTURE WAS WRITTEN BY CREEPER MEN...NOT THE MAGICAL SKY MAN.

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Says the very controversial poster here who has consistently been a "creeper" man with his shallow posting history. 🤨 You're actually now personifying the know-it-all-arrogance of most atheists, asshole.

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GOD DIDN'T DIP A FEATHER IN INK AND WRITE ANYTHING....SOME DUDE WROTE IT DOWN...AND THROUGHOUT HISTORY OTHER DUDES EDITED THE SHIT OUT OF IT.



I AM FINE WITH THE MAGICAL SKY MAN....HE'S A COOL GUY....WHO NEVER GAVE TWO SHITS ABOUT WHETHER TWO MEN LOVE EACH OTHER OR ANY OF THE OTHER EARTHLY SHENANIGANS THAT BOOK DESCRIBES.




CALM DOWN,HAMMER...WE CAN DISAGREE WITHOUT ANGER.🫂

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"Some dude..."? This absolutely stupid claim really reveals your ignorance. The Bible has had multiple contributors, has survived for centuries. Any atheist with a modicum of objectivity should be able to admit that at least, it's full of beautiful prose and wisdom. Your worthless online input however, will recede into obscurity, because you're just a pissant in the grand scheme of things.

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The Bible has had multiple contributors


THAT'S WHAT I SAID....NONE OF THOSE CONTRIBUTERS WERE GOD THOUGH.


AND IT IS KNOWN FACT THAT THE BIBLE DID NOT "SURVIVE"....IT HAS BEEN EDITED BY RULING FACTIONS NUMEROUS TIMES.



THAT SAID....IT IS ABSOLUTELY A NICE BOOK FILLED WITH BEAUTIFUL PROSE AND WISDOM....IT JUST ISN'T THE DIRECT WORD OF GOD.

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You didn't say that. You said "some dude."

And you're completely denying history by claiming it didn't survive. Yeah, man has interfered and edited, but it has indeed survived.

And you're so high-minded and authoritative to assert it's not from God. You absolutely personify the point of the OP!





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WHAT KIND OF PEN DOES GOD USE?🤔

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This stupid argument of yours is no different than the claims you've constantly made since arriving here that your wife is the sole problem of your screwed up marriage. You're just wanting to feel better about your homosexuality.

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WE BROKE UP....WE ARE NOW FRIENDS....I QUITE ENJOY HER COMPANY NOW THAT WE ARENT TOGETHER....WE ARE BOTH MAKING EFFORTS TO BE BETTER FRIENDS THAN WE WERE A COUPLE.



I AM NOT GAY....BUT I WOULD FEEL NO SHAME IF I WAS...NOBODY SHOULD FEEL SHAME OVER WHO THEY LOVE.



AREN'T YOU GOD GUYS SUPPOSED TO BE NICE AND ACCEPTING?

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"AREN'T YOU GOD GUYS SUPPOSED TO BE NICE AND ACCEPTING?"

As Alice cooper would sing, no, No More Mr. Nice Guys...

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Excellent replies from you Kowalski. 👏

Signed, million man.

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I saw this thread kept bumping up and never saw the new comments. My fear proved to be true, good’ Ol’DirtyBag back at it again.

Good Lord bro, you handled this way better than I did last week! 🤣

After writing this, this you put on some Chopin and gazed at the stars through a telescope?

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Fear is right. You were whiny and defensive last week. And elsewhere in this thread you tried to brag you were "harsh" with me.

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Shut up and go back in your corner poodle boy.

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I'm a hybrid of pit bull and poodle.😆🖕

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More like a bitch yeah.

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There's that wannabe black guy coming out again, you soft and pudgy punk.

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Are you having your periods at the moment?

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"Periods" plural? If you're going to try to insult me, at least try to be grammatically correct, you ignoramus.

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Okay, how about this for grammar:

When I see you, you'll need two tampons for your nose afterwards.

That good for you Poodleboy?

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Just more hot air, wannabe tough guy shit, punk.

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🤣

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In your opinion, is the Quran divinely inspired? What about the Upanishads? The Agamas? The Talmud?

If your answer to any one of these questions is 'no', then you are indulging in the same 'high-minded, authoritative' behaviour you're accusing your interlocutor of.

See what I'm driving at?

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What you've always been driving at is that you want to appear as intellectually superior. Are not art, music and literature divinely inspired?

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No, they're not. Music, art and literature are from people.

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I asked a fairly straightforward question.

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You were trying to appear as intellectually superior, once again.

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Even were it so, it would be beside the point. I'm not interested in your deflections or what you imagine to be my character. Play the ball, not the man. Either respond to the question or don't.

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"Even were it so, ..." That looks like a partial admission to me that I'm right. It also appears that I've somehow drawn the "arrogant" know-it-alls from out of the woodwork.

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That looks like a partial admission to me that I'm right.


I'm not interested.

I asked a straightforward question. Skavau asked the same one with different wording. Either answer it or don't. But don't, for heaven's sake, imagine that throwing dung around is a substitute for adult debate.

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If you're not interested, then why even respond, you fake? There's nothing adult about you. You're just full of yourself.

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I'm not interested in your mud-slinging, petty insults and deflections from the question. I'm not here to indulge in personal abuse and, as a grown man, neither should you be.

I'll still be interested if you actually answer the question - either to myself or to Skavau or anyone else who poses the same conundrum.

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Mud slinging? Oh, are your feelings hurt because I've always perceived you as a pompous, stuffed shirt, wanting to appear so highbrow and superior? Those criticisms are also straightforward.

I'm not going to flinch and abandon my sense of knowing that there's something unfathomable and higher than myself in this world because of guys like you that are a dime a dozen on the internet. Wakan-Tanka is the name the Lakota, otherwise known as the Sioux Indians, gave to God. It can mean either Great Spirit or The Great Mystery.



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My feelings aren't hurt in the least, no. Because your opinions about me don't matter to me. I don't know who you are.

I'm afraid I don't remember ever encountering you before, your username is not familiar to me, so I'm not sure how you've 'always perceived me' as anything.

But -- whatever -- it isn't important. Answer the question or don't answer the question. The rest of it is irrelevant to the debate. And utterly tiresome.

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If it's so tiresome, then why are you the one that keeps persisting with this? My opinions about your pompous arrogance sure seem to matter to you. You're putting on a front.

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Yes, it matters to me greatly, sir. It's like being savaged by a toy poodle.

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There's your pomposity again. I've actually been compared to a pit bull.

I'll answer it this way...I've read portions of the Quran. I also once owned a book that compared the teachings of Jesus to Buddha. The similarities were uncanny. I also studied with the Mormons for a bit, who also have a unique perspective. One of their tenets is, "The glory of God is intelligence or light and truth, the glory to which we should aspire." My conclusion was, there were always areas where the teachings overlapped, hence they were inspired.

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Well, thank you for finally taking a vague stab at answering the question. It's unclear to me why you couldn't have taken that approach in the first place instead of wasting both of our time. But that's your affair.

A pit bull may be more fitting in some regards actually. Poodles are among the more intelligent breeds of dog.

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It's not vague at all. Because I was addressing the topic of this thread, which is the arrogance of atheists, which you seem to exemplify. Well, by comparing me to a poodle, you're admitting that I'm among "the more intelligent." Contradict yourself much?

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What do you expect people to say about that? It's just an ad hominem. What's inherently arrogant about being an atheist?

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Pseudo-intellectual argument.
Most atheists I've encountered can't simply say, "This is my opinion." No, they have to emphatically declare with authority, "There is no God" or "The Bible is a fairy tale." That's not only arrogance but extreme arrogance.

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>Most atheists I've encountered can't simply say, "This is my opinion." No, they have to emphatically declare with authority, "There is no God" or "The Bible is a fairy tale." That's not only arrogance but extreme arrogance.

Got any data whatsoever that backs up the claim that most atheists reply like this? I'm an atheist. I've never claimed "There is no God". I think the Bible is very unlikely to be true, same for all books that divine or supernatural inspiration.

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I've already said that my opinions about atheists are based on years of personal experience. Can you read with any kind of comprehension?

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So it would it be valid to you if someone posted a thread bemoaning what they regard as theist arrogance after "years of personal experience?"

How would you expect theists to reply to that?

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Wtf is "divine or supernatural inspiration" supposed to mean? You can't comprehend what you read and you can't articulate.

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It means I think it has no overwordly, supernatural, 'divine', paranormal, alien inspiration. That is to say: I don't believe its from a god.

Are you going to answer my question?

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Well, by comparing me to a poodle, you're admitting that I'm among "the more intelligent."


Yeah. I pretty much just said the same thing, didn't I? That's why I took the joke back in the very post you're replying to.

But I'm prepared to concede you are about as intelligent as a poodle if that makes you happy.

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You can't seem to make up your mind if I'm a poodle or a pit bull. Contradict yourself much?

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You're being wilfully obtuse now. Very dull. Have a good rest of your day.

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I unignored the poodle for 1 minute and instantly regretted it.

Back in his dark corner he’s going. lol

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Ohhh. You just made me realise who he is.

I didn't think I'd encountered him before, but he's the guy who is always getting into scraps with the regulars -- especially Shogun. Right?

Maybe more of a Yorkshire terrier then. Always barking at everything that moves, but a wolf only in its own mind.

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Fact and fact.

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Shogun and I are currently on good terms, creep.

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'Cause you can't handle me, punk.😁🖕

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That's good for you, but no-one else is bound to view them as "inspired" because you do.

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>Mud slinging? Oh, are your feelings hurt because I've always perceived you as a pompous, stuffed shirt, wanting to appear so highbrow and superior?

In what way has he done any of this? You are the one being hostile to him.

>I'm not going to flinch and abandon my sense of knowing that there's something unfathomable and higher than myself in this world because of guys like you that are a dime a dozen on the internet. Wakan-Tanka is the name the Lakota, otherwise known as the Sioux Indians, gave to God. It can mean either Great Spirit or The Great Mystery.

When did he say you wants you to abandon your worldview?

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>And you're so high-minded and authoritative to assert it's not from God. You absolutely personify the point of the OP!

Do you not make the same claim regarding the Quran?

What makes you any different?

If anyone rejects the claim that a piece of literature is somehow divinely inspired, does that inherently mean they're "arrogant"?

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How in the fuck do you even know what I think of the Quran or what I claim about it? This is the kind of "arrogance" that the OP is exactly pointing out.

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Oh, so you just assume the Qu'ran is from god too then?

You suggested that its arrogant to question the divinity of the bible. Does that apply to other scripture reportedly dictated to by god(s) or messengers from them?

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I'm saying, you don't know what I'm thinking. You're the one making assumptions.

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So what do you think then?

You also seem to claim with great confidence about what atheists think to call them arrogant.

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That has been my personal experience with most atheists I've encountered and I'm not about to deny that for the likes of you. I recently read an article about traits that identify an unintelligent person. Being closed minded was at the top of the list.

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>That has been my personal experience with most atheists I've encountered and I'm not about to deny that for the likes of you.

Is your position on atheists that they're arrogant purely because they reject the claims of the bible? Is that it?

Can an atheist not say that it is equally their personal experience that christians tend to be close-minded or unintelligent?

>I recently read an article about traits that identify an unintelligent person. Being closed minded was near the top of the list.

What makes atheists inherently close-minded?

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can you prove the magical sky man does not exist?

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That's not how burden of proof works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

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you dont seem to understand how burden of proof works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law)

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Um, your article -- same as my article -- proves my point, not yours.

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yours is about Russells teapot which doesnt prove that God doesnt exist. its just an analogy.

do you have any empirical science?

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The point of the analogy is that something can't be disproven is not a valid reason to assume it is true. Otherwise we would have to assume everything is true.

In your own link about the burden of proof:

"In a legal dispute, one party has the burden of proof to show that they are correct, while the other party has no such burden and is presumed to be correct."

Why should it be assumed that a god does exist?

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No, it doesn't prove that God doesn't exist -- because you can't prove that God doesn't exist. That's the point of the analogy. It's an unfalsifiable claim. The burden of proof is on those making the claim.

Just like in a courtroom. Imagine if you will a trial in which a man is accused of murdering his wife. The prosecution fails to provide evidence of this. Is the man locked up because the defence fails to provide evidence that he didn't? No. That's literally not how anything works.

Don't talk to me about empirical science when you've just demonstrated yourself fundamentally incapable of grasping the scientific method.

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if someone cant prove that God doesnt exist then how can one prove he doesnt exist?

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

according to God and the Bible. it was written by God.

just because a few non believers say its not true doesnt make it untrue.

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>according to God and the Bible. it was written by God.

What reason do we have to believe that the bibles claims are true?

>just because a few non believers say its not true doesnt make it untrue.

And just because you claim its true doesn't mean its true.

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It's like talking to someone from the pre-Enlightenment era. Have a pleasant rest of your day.

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I am very enlightened. as usual I still cant find a person to prove to me that God doesnt exist. other than saying he doesnt exist.

I have had things happen in my life that cannot be explained, other than God intervening.

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I still cant find a person to prove to me that God doesnt exist


And you never will. In precisely the same way as I will never find anyone who can prove to me that there isn't an invisible unicorn sitting next to me on this couch.

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which doesnt prove anything. they would be just admitting they have no evidence.

it would be like accusing someone of stealing and saying they are guilty but not providing any evidence.

[–] Kowalski (73857) 5 hours ago
SCRIPTURE WAS WRITTEN BY CREEPER MEN...NOT THE MAGICAL SKY MAN.

if scripture was written by men. then I assume there is evidence for this?

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>which doesnt prove anything. they would be just admitting they have no evidence.

Atheists don't tend to say they can prove a god doesn't exist. Just that there's no reason to believe and act as if one does. Just as you don't live your life assuming unicorns exist.

>if scripture was written by men. then I assume there is evidence for this?

The collective authorship of the bible is well understood field of study.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible

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No. The burden of proof for my invisible unicorn would be on me. They can't empirically prove it isn't there, but they'd be right to disbelieve it on the grounds that I couldn't provide empirical proof that it is.

You're right insomuch as absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But it'd be a pretty strange person, or a very small child who hadn't yet learned to think rationally, who would take my word for it.

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"The burden of proof for my invisible unicorn would be on me."

exactly, the person who makes the claim would need to back up their claim.

according to Kowalski and Thaistickers, the Bible was written by men. I assume they both know who these people were? and would they be able provide the exact same evidence?

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You're really not getting this, are you? Fair enough.

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what am I not understanding? you just said the burden of proof is on the person who made the claim. are you realizing your error now?

according to Kowalski and Thaistickers, the Bible was written by men. I assume they both know who these people were? and would they be able provide the exact same evidence?

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OK. Against my better judgement, I'm going to try this one last time.

Remember my invisible unicorn.

I say there's an invisible unicorn sitting next to me on my couch. What you seem to be suggesting is that if someone comes along and says 'I don't believe there's an invisible unicorn sitting on your couch', they should have to prove that it isn't there.

Do you not see that's ridiculous? It's literally not how anything works. I'm the person making the claim -- the fairly outrageous claim. The burden of proof is on me. They don't have to do anything.

In terms of whether God or men wrote The Bible, apply Occam's Razor.

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ok, I think we are saying the same thing but in a different way. and I agree and understand what you are saying. my explanations can be convoluted sometimes.

it would be easier for me to believe that God wrote something as complex as the Bible. the easiest explanation is not always the best explanation. cheers.

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There's more complex written material than the bible.

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can you name at least 66 books?

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Probably the majority of scientific and philosphical journals and literature.

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which ones in particular do you like the most? and how have these books affected mankind in the past 2000 years?

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And OP claims it was written by a god. Which is a more outlandish claim by several magnitudes.

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>I am very enlightened. as usual I still cant find a person to prove to me that God doesnt exist. other than saying he doesnt exist.

You also can't find a person who can disprove Zeus or Odin either. Do you assume that they exist too?

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" I have had things happen in my life that cannot be explained, other than God intervening."

Bingo, same here. I have lived dangerously. I should have died long ago. I've been within inches and seconds of death. I also have that sense of "divine intervention." An expression I sometimes like to use to explain that phenomenon is, "Somebody up there likes me."

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Oh wow 😆

Have you ever seen that movie Carrie? You really remind me of her mother.

Get in that closet and PRAY YOU FILTHY ATHiESTS!!

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I am a Christian. But I don't dislike the beliefs of hardcore atheist. I dislike their acting like their beliefs are proven scientific fact when they are not. The Big Bang Theory is just a theory. In fact anything about how the universe came about is theory. It can't ever be proven. But some of you want to be ignorant and act like you've travelled to 5billion years ago and saw it for yourselves. Maybe some Christians are arrogant in their beliefs but so are hardcore atheists.

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There's a great deal of supporting evidence for the Big Bang. In science, a theory is an explanation for facts and data we observe. It isn't plucked out of the air. Theories can indeed be proven. But we continue to refer to them as theories even when there is overwhelming evidence to support them, because there is always the possibility that a better explanation of the facts will arise. The facts themselves, however, will not change.

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Exactly right.

The unknown territory is what caused the Big Bang to occur?

This above all else is why one remains Agnostic.

There isn't much else out there that doesn't have a logical, secular explanation.

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Okay but I'll believe what I'll believe and you believe what you believe. We should be peaceful about it. I can't blame the TC for his views though since so many people refuse to believe in God and Jesus.

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What do you mean "refuse"? They don't believe that the core metaphysical claims of christian doctrine are true. They no more "refuse" than you refuse to convert to Islam.

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I'm not sure what you're attempting to tell me. The Big Bang isn't a 'belief'; it's a scientific theory supported by data and evidence. It's not equivalent to your faith.

But you will indeed continue to believe what you believe. And I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you. Ain't freedom of thought and expression marvellous?

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what data and evidence do you have that the universe created itself?

also what existed before the big bang?

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I would go so far as to say that atheists in general, are much more arrogant than some Christians. They seem to come from the same mold, recite from the same playbook. I can think of only two from my experiences that were decent. One was actually on this site in its early days; don't know if he still is and can't remember his moniker. Anyway, we got into a discussion, and he actually lamented that it's true, most atheists are like that. The other was in another forum. Initially, she and I butted heads but it didn't last long. We came to a point of understanding and respecting each other. A beautiful rapport developed between us. She was smart, very funny and entertaining and to this day, I have fond memories of her.

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You do know you've almost certainly interacted with hundreds, thousands of atheists without even knowing that they are in life right?

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