It is "an activity in which participants struggle hand-in-hand primarily for the purpose of providing entertainment to spectators rather than conducting a bona fide athletic contest." - Vince McMahon
Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/wwe-mma-wrestling/historic-moments-wrestling-part-6-vince-mcmahon-admits-wrestling-predetermined-9461429.html
No, it's all about "sports entertainment". At least that's how Vince McMahon's come to categorize it lol. Pro wrestling I think is or should be technically known as a sport, since it is derived from olympic wrestling. I mean, it's very physical and requires talent and skill that is learned. It's like other sports that way, where it takes time and practice to master what's required to do it. But, WWE wrestling is much more about entertainment than it is about actually defeating your opponent, like in competitive sports.
shareWell, anything that is pre-determined kills the definition of a "sport".
shareDepends on what the definition of "sport" is.
Sometimes an activity which needs rigorous training can be considered as a sport, even when the moves and "results" (if there's any) are pre-determined, like dancing, aerobics, yoga or kata in karate.
WWE is more like dancing in this sense. That the wrestlers are actually performing a routine / predefined movements together, not unlike pair skating and synchronized swimming.
An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/sport
WWE has no competition, no one is trying to win. It's a play, where two actors pretend they're fighting when they're not.
Like I said, it depends on what the definition of "sport" is.
Sports can be played non-competitively. Basketball is a sport, but you can play basketball leisurely, simply for the enjoyment. You can play tennis without keeping the scores. The so-called "recreational sports."
WWE then can be seen as wrestling that is not played competitively, but for the enjoyment of the spectators.
Some people consider hunting a sport. Where's the competition? The animals are just there standing to be shot.
They were athletes for sure
Every bout was an obvious pre planned set-up but a lot of those moves and slams would kill an average guy
Rowdy Roddy was the best of the lot
I really liked that dude
No. It's real athletes executing scripted performances. That's not a "sport" no matter how physically gifted those athletes are.
shareI think calling them Athletes is pushing the same misconception asa the 'sport' thing.
I totally agree they are fit , strong , determined , maintain amazing physical fitness and strength , and have some mad skills.
But so does the guy who building supplies into trucks down at the yard , or the landscape gardenere who'se totally ripped becasue he's lifting , carrying and digging all day.
Yes. All professional sport is entertainment and a lot more of it ( like the WWE but not as blatantly ) is scripted and performed than people might want to believe.
"is scripted and performed than people might want to believe."
Hmmm, can you elaborate more on this? So, certain aspects of professional golf, basketball, etc is scripted?
Let me put it this way. Professional sport is very big business and there is a lot of money involved which means at that level it is taken very seriously. So nothing is left to chance and the crowds are given a good show to keep them happy and interested.
LMAO
shareMoney has ruined professional sports, just like it's ruined everything else. I have had my suspicions about the NFL being scripted for some time now.
• It's always the same handful of teams in the postseason year after year.
• There's this one particular franchise (I won't mention the name) that is known for cheating. Multiple incidents. How many others are waiting to get caught?
• Super Bowl scores are no longer lopsided. The trailing team somehow manages to catch up. Coaches will make bad decisions that they wouldn't have made during the regular season. Referees fail to call blatant penalties that occur right in front of their faces. Something doesn't add up here. There's a reason for this: the Super Bowl is the most-watched event on television; the networks and the advertisers don't want viewers tuning out at halftime. Then there would be no one to watch their precious little commercials which have become more important than the game itself.
This needs to be investigated, but it won't because there's too much money involved. I wish some former league insider would write a book exposing what truly goes on in the NFL and other leagues.
i think "scripted" goes a little far though.
free agency and the salary cap have evened out the talent. if a team gets too good it becomes too expensive. on the other hand you "shouldnt" have a team like Tampa Bay Buccaneers that had 14 straight losing seasons.
now we have very mediocre teams where coaching and usually a couple young underpaid players tip the scale. the games now just cant reach the quality of 2 GREAT teams of years past simply because the talent pool cannot get that consolidated.
with that said, you could call holding on any play and im sure there are certainly some officiating shenanigans to keep the viewers watching or to tip scales to more desirable team.
> I wish some former league insider would write a book exposing what truly goes on in the NFL and other leagues.
Some might find NBA referee Tim Donaghy's credibility questionable, as he was caught betting on basketball games. Allowing for that, I thought his book was pretty good. https://www.amazon.com/Personal-Foul-First-Person-Account-Scandal/dp/061536263X
Tyler Hamilton wrote about his experiences in the Tour de France and about bicycling generally, including how the athletes circumvent mandatory drug testing. I enjoyed it and thought it was informative. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008WOUJQG/
Michael Sokolove (not an insider) wrote a good book about college basketball and the massive amounts of money that flow through it. Despite the title, it's not so much about Rick Pitino specifically but about basketball generally. https://www.amazon.com/Last-Temptation-Rick-Pitino-Corruption/dp/0399563296/
Finally one I'll recommend in jest. Katina Powell was the prostitute who played a key part in the scandal which cost Rick Pitino his job at the University of Louisville. She later wrote a book about it. https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Cardinal-Rules-Recruiting-Tactics/dp/1939550289/
The book is enjoyable, for all the wrong reasons. Her particular perspective makes it a bizarre read. The book could well have been titled, "Inside The Mind Of A Hooker."
Those sound like good reads. Thanks for the list.
shareYou're welcome. I've read another one by Sokolove that might be of interest. https://www.amazon.com/Hustle-Michael-Sokolove/dp/0743284445
That one is about Pete Rose, his gambling, and banishment from baseball. It also covers several other aspects of Rose. It's not a complete biography, but it's not just limited to the gambling and scandal. But while the others are about sports generally, this one is specifically about Rose.
Sokolove is a thorough researcher and I'm impressed with his work. I only caught one mistake in Hustle, and it wasn't a mistake of facts, rather he got the facts right but drew the wrong interpretation.
Quick tidbits about the other three books:
Donaghy alleges that NBA games are skewed by the refs to protect certain players, not so much to favor teams as to protect players with star power. The refs would periodically be called in to conferences and told the NBA wanted certain rules enforced more strictly or leniently. They would be shown video clips to illustrate the point. The real message was never directly stated but clear from the particular examples used in the videos -- don't foul Shaq out! He's the ones the fans come to see!
According to Hamilton, getting away with doping was quite easy to do. The actual drug they used, "EPO" IIRC, was undetectable, and the only thing they could test for was the effect, elevated red blood cell counts. But some have naturally high RBC counts, so a line was arbitrarily drawn. People with less than that number were deemed clean, above were deemed dirty. When an unannounced random test day came, it was possible to dodge the test and stall for a few days, and during that time there were ways to get ones RBC count down below the cutoff line.
I don't recall as much about Sokolove's book, but the amount of money flowing to star basketball athletes is massive -- and it starts long before they turn pro. College, high school, even before that for the really good players.
Powell's book isn't as bad as I implied is to be. It is quite weird in places, though. Her credibility might seem the most questionable of all, but she has enough photos and gives enough specifics that haven't been refuted that I believe she's telling the truth. There were some surprises for me in it. For example, it seems it wasn't just the high school player recruits getting free sex courtesy of U of L; many of their fathers were getting free sex too.
"Donaghy alleges that NBA games are skewed by the refs to protect certain players..."
The NFL refs do the same with certain quarterbacks. Accidentally brush against someone like Aaron Rodgers and it's automatically "roughing the passer."
"...don't foul Shaq out! He's the one the fans come to see!"
The one fans pay to see, which I have no problem with because ticket sales, not advertising, should be a major source of income. But being a superstar also means getting more commercial endorsements; Shaq has certainly had more than his share of these. Which brings me back to my original post: money has ruined professional sports.
> The one fans pay to see [emphasis yours]
Even better put.
I have to correct something I said in the last post: "But while the others are about sports generally, [Hustle] is specifically about Rose."
The others are about specific topics but also cover enough other aspects of their sports that they can be said to be about their sports generally. Except for Powell's, which is only about her and her workers, their antics with U of L, and so on.
> money has ruined professional sports.
And high level "amateur" sports too. There's a small college in my town. Unlike the University of Louisville, they don't hire hookers to service their basketball players -- they can't afford it.
I'll add another tidbit, from Hustle, to support your argument. The fabled Rule 21 in MLB does not only prohibit betting on baseball. It prohibits all illegal gambling. Pete Rose had been betting with bookies for his entire adult life. He was also one of baseball's big moneymakers, and his gambling had been ignored. The scandal broke in 1989 when Rose stiffed a man he owed money to, and the man revenged himself by giving evidence of Rose's gambling to the magazine Sports Illustrated. At that point it was public and MLB had to act to save face. But MLB, by which I mean the office of the commissioner, had known about Rose's gambling at least as far back as 1970.
"• It's always the same handful of teams in the postseason year after year."
surely thats proof its not scripted?
It wouldn't be the same teams year after year, if there wasn't some sort of "scripting" going on. Yes, there are "dynasties" but to have one last for over a decade seems pretty suspicious to me.
shareits always the same teams win the football in the UK and euorope.
Thats because they are the biggest , have most support , and therefore money , can afford the best players , so they win , get more support , circle goes on.
Same for F1 racing , usually the same few at the top due to investment and expertise of huge rich companies like ferrari , maclaren, bmw etc
Which brings me back to my original post: money has ruined professional sports.
sharethe raptors won the nba championship a few years ago. i am sure the powers that be would have preferred a new york, los angeles or chicago based team. much like leicester winning the epl a few years ago.
shareA sport requires actual competition, so no.
I do respect their toughness, though I find it incredibly silly for anyone over the age of 12 to find it entertaining.
No.
share