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whoanelly's Replies
Great post.
Re forbidden acts:
Don’t forget sodomy. (See Lord and Lady Byron).
Yes, there are. But I still disagree with that word. I doubt any of them were happy about it. Willingly is a better fit. And for me, that’s meeting you more than half way because my word would be “begrudgingly.”
Re Fleur’s restlessness
I think she was fated to be restless no matter whom she married. Even if she had never met Jon. There was so much she didn’t know or understand: about herself, about people, about men, about her father, about relationships, About human strength and character, about life. And she wasn’t likely to learn these things—which are so important to personal happiness and contentment in life— without first experiencing disappointment, bitterness, failure, achievements and personal successes that make one feel self worth, regrets, contrition, generosity, selflessness, compassion, and empathy.
Basically, she needed to grow as a person. A lot. A whole lot.
Are you saying women don’t enjoy sex? Women don’t really want sex, they just feel obligated To comply by law, or commitment?
Might I suggest that you cannot assume the experience of every woman is like your own?
IMO Sex is great! ymmv. Both of those “acronyms” were used because it’s internet shorthand. Not because I am belittling you. I just hate typing.
Happily?
Are you sure you want to let that word stand?
Gross.
Sounds like you have read trilogy #3. They never filmed that trilogy for this series, but they did for the 1967 series. Fleur is gross. She only begins to see things differently after her father’s death (which was caused by her carelessness).
From Goodreads:
Often incorrectly called The Forsyte Saga - the nine novel sequence properly known as The Forstye Chronicles contains three trilogies-
the first trilogy - The Forsyte Saga (The Man of Property - In Chancery- To Let).
The second trilogy- A Modern Comedy (The White Monkey- The Silver Spoon- Swan Song)
the third and concluding trilogy- End of the Chapter (Maid in Waiting- Flowering Wilderness- One More River)
Yikes. Al I can say is that I hope as you get older and experience parenthood and possibly grandparenthood you will come to understand the circumstances more clearly from Jolyon’s point of view. He was a father who had already lost a child in war. Now, as he was dying, he was losing another child. Fleur knew about the illness and deliberately kept it from Jon. She tried to elope with him in a hurry, to secure him legally before he foind out about Jolyon’s illness. How do you think that would have boded for their future together if she had succeeded?
Gross.
Soames never considered divorcing Irene because she was his possession. Remember, that is who Soames is—a man of property. He doesn’t let go of his possessions.
All sex offenders say that, even when there are audio tapes that prove they did it.
I believe he did.
People seem to have forgotten about all the televangelists in the 80s-90s who fell from grace, such as Jim Baker.
That’s false. He did drug women who drank a beverage from him without knowing he drugged it.
I don’t think you can say one was worse than the other. They’re both vile, disgusting men. They both intended to continue their heinous criminal behavior years after being outed and lying to cover it up. They both felt so secure in their power, neither ever believed he would be held to account.
I’ve read both HW books (Ronan Farrow and Kantor/Twohey). They’re both pigs and deserved more jail time than they got.
Yes, he coerced them! It was his pattern. From Ronan Farrow’s book about Weinstein: <blockquote> “On the screen in front of her, Gutierrez came to a folder labeled “Mama.” Inside were audio files titled Mama1, Mama2, and Mama3: the recordings she’d had to frantically start each time her phone issued a push alert about its dwindling battery life during the police sting. She passed me a pair of headphones, and I listened. It was all there: the promises of career advancement, the list of other actresses he had helped, the encounter with the officer Weinstein thought was a TMZ photographer. In the recording, Gutierrez’s panic was palpable. “I don’t want to,” she said, standing in the hallway outside his room, refusing to go farther as Weinstein’s tone turned menacing. “I want to leave,” she added. “I want to go downstairs.” At one point, she asked him why he had groped her breasts the day before.
“Oh, please, I’m sorry, just come on in,” Weinstein replied. “I’m used to that. Come on. Please.”
“You’re used to that?” Gutierrez asked, incredulous.
“Yes,” Weinstein said. He added, “I won’t do it again.”
After almost two minutes of back-and-forth in the hallway, he finally agreed to return to the bar.
Weinstein wheedled and menaced and bullied “and didn’t take no for an answer. But more than that, it was a smoking gun. It was inarguable. There he was, admitting not just to a crime but to a pattern. “I’m used to that.”
Excerpt From
Catch and Kill
Ronan Farrow
</blockquote>
That’s the audio recording of the nypd police sting to get HW to admit it.
ROFLMAO.
Yup. You nailed it.
Exactly. She was a “star”. A celebrity.
She wasn’t playing a 19 year old in s&s. Her character was written older in the script than in Austens novel.
And how old was Holly supposed to be in BaT? AH was in her 30s.
Audrey who?
Eloping is nearly always disastrous for the woman. Eloping doesn’t mean running away to get married. It means running away with someone against the moral rules of society. Sometimes elopements ended with marriage, most times they did not. E.g. in Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice, Wickham never intended to marry Lydia. Darcy bribes him to do it to save the repitation of her sisters.
In Austen’s Mansfield Park, a married woman elopes with a man who is not her husband. They both know their relationship has no future, but their passions overtake their good sense. The consequences are terrible for the woman, who ends up shunned by society and forced to live alone with a horrible, widowed aunt.
“I never really understood why it was so awful to discuss the fact he is probably gay.”
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IMO, it’s because RA’s fanbase had a LOT of women with an intense, emotional crush on the guy. I have never seen a fanbase like it. Not even the Colin Firth/Jane Austen/Pride and Prejudice fanbase came close to the way women reacted to RA, in particular to his portrayal of John Thornton in North and South. His N&S Superfans were so obsessive. Every time a new period drama was announced, they all wanted him cast in the romantic lead, even if he wasn’t really right for the part.
These fans had a lot, (A LOT) invested in RA as their dream mate. He couldn’t possibly be gay or bi because that would spoil their illusion.