MovieChat Forums > ColdOfWinter > Replies
ColdOfWinter's Replies
I think it would have covered a lot of the holes that the current ending created. Not sure I like the notion of Jamie as the hand, but I can deal with it if the rest would have been handled well.
If Jon was going to sit on the throne and Sansa was going to declare the North independent, I would hope they wrote it so Sansa and Jon had a considerably more icy relationship. It does make more sense than a true Stark sitting on the throne and then having the north abandon the kingdom.
No I get all of that. My response has nothing to do with Bran becoming king, or his council. My response is that the rest of the 7 kingdom's haven't changed. Bran being in power with no army is not sustainable. EVEN IF him and his council are capable of a near utopia rule (something that I highly doubt given what we have seen, is at all attainable in the Game of Thrones world) it changes nothing. The people on his council do not have powerful armies.
At some point, One of the Seven Kingdom's is going to attempt a power grab. Eventually Bran is going to have to make a decision that angers one or more of the lords. At some point Bran is going to be confronted with a situation that makes him choose between the lesser of two evils. Its the very nature of leadership.
The two worst type of rulers (IMO) are the evil tyrant, followed closely by the leader that will do ANYTHING to avoid war. Having a council that have all gone through hell and don't want to repeat it very possibly could be a bigger problem then a benefit.
If Dorne immediately declares their independence (something that I would have expected to have happened as soon as Sansa declared her own) what will Bran do? March on them immediately? Well... not without an army. When the Iron Borne decide that they want to go back to raiding the other 7 kingdoms(Something I would assume ALL of the Iron Born will want to do), what will Bran do then?
The picture that the show writers have written seems happy and content, but it doesn't fit with the world they have shown us for the last 8 years.
I'm not sure the show is referencing madness the same way we might view it in reality. The mad King is called mad but the only reference to his actually being mad was his growing paranoia, and his willingness to burn his own citizens before he would be overthrown. These are all characteristics of an evil tyrant as well.
For what its worth I read that there was a deleted scene where Bran was the one that clued her in to Little Fingers manipulation. Of course if it doesn't make the show, its not part of the show.
I absolutely hated that scene when the entire army of Winterfell sat back and watched the Dothraki charge in and die. My first thought was that the show writers were using that war to eliminate them instead of trying to show how they would integrate into Westeros culture... of course then 2 episodes later they showed a few 1000 Dothraki, and all I could do was shake my head in disbelief.
Ok fine, you can have 3 posts to bitch about star wars, then its back to being a die hard fan or else!
Actually I liked rogue 1, but was disappointed in everything after the original trilogy. For me the issue was the new movies never rose to the level of excitement to get me to post about them, or even go to their page to read others complain. Is it really that bad?
For a show like this shouldn't there be loose ends? Personally I feel like they tried to make the ending to neat as is. The entire invading army packs up and leaves like it was just a softball game. The council gets together and hands the throne off to someone that has no claim, and there is no objections. The general ending of the show makes you believe that it is a happily ever after scenario. This isn't a fairy tale, nothing should be THIS neat.
Even Jon's punishment was nothing more then a way to free him to be with the people of the north.
continued...
The majority of other kingdoms join Sansa in rebellion, and Danny's new advisers warn that she cannot win, against the odds. She ignores them and marches north to meet the united Westeros on an open battlefield. And the show ends with the battle about to begin again, as the Game of thrones NEVER ends.
For me this would have been a better way to show the madness starting to grip Danny. But again that's one of about 1000 ways that the show could have ended.
Well I can't speak for everyone, but its more they way they came to the conclusions then the conclusions themselves. It was rushed and because it was rushed, the way it ended feels.. a little cheap.
Off the top of my head here is how I would have gone about the episodes (the obvious thing to note is that my ideas would take more then a few more episodes).
Battle for King's Landing: Danny should have arrived with a full army and 2 dragons. The battle should have been fierce (not completely 1 sided), however, because of the dragons Danny should have had a clear advantage. Then the Lannister army gets a lucky strike and kills one of the dragons. Danny pulls back from the battlefield with the last dragon. Danny starts believing she has lost too much, you see her start to show clear signs of mentally breaking. She refuses to allow her dragon back into the battle, instead forces her armies to die wave after wave going against the walls of King's landing. Her advisors beg her to let the dragon return, Vary's hope in who he thought would be a good ruler is extinguished, as she clearly cares more for the Dragon then all of the people that are loyal to her.
Jon with no other options, as the battle appears lost now, approaches Drogon and hopes to ride it as he had the other dragon. After a few tense moments the dragon relents and allows him to. Jon dies bravely atop the dragon, but not before leading Danny's armies to victory. While Danny now appears weak, no longer the ruler she was before. She lashes out burning all of her advisers alive.
She believes Jon has robbed her of her dignity, and declares war on the Northerners as they march home. With her Dragon she sends them scattering across the lands desperately racing for Winterfell for protection.
Now Danny with a much weaker army and a single dragon would demand the heads of Sansa, Arya, and Bran. Sansa would attempt to convince the other Kingdoms to enter full rebellion along side her.
Dorne could march on King's Landing tomorrow and take it in about 15 minutes since the "King's" army has declared itself a independent nation and won't be protecting him at all. Dorne could probably make peace with several of the other Kingdom's by granting them their independence and expand their own kingdom to twice its current size.
Who would even try to stop them?
Actually I honestly felt like there was an uptick in solidly written dialog in this episode. While I disagree with the direction they went, it was nice to see strong character discussions again. Tyrion had some good lines, and unlike other episodes his character's decision made sense. While I HATED the cliche of stabbing Danny while they kissed, her speech to him was good at summarizing why Jon had to do what he did.
Unless there is something there I don't see, Bran doesn't get to redefine the rules. He is all of the things you say he is, but there will be challenges to his authority, because nothing has changed with the people of Westeros.
"Loved ruler" should always be taken with a grain of salt. He will make enemies of the regions at some point. He will have to make difficult decisions between what is right and what is politically prudent. Its easy to say that we should always select what is right, but this approach can spark a rebellion as easily as being a rigid tyrant. Since he doesn't have a standing army, when he is perceived as weak by one of the kingdoms and they march on him, he will rely on all of the other kingdoms to come to his aide. Unless he can actually break with history, we know that some of the kingdoms just won't send help. Others will feel like they are already helping too much, and some will stand with him only while convenient for their own kingdom.
The peace they want is just not attainable this way. The North Army needs to be Bran's army or the capital will fall. It may be a few decades before it happens ( I would actually expect it much sooner this that), but it will happen.
He doesn't have an army. Maybe the other Kingdom's send men when King's Landing is in trouble, or maybe they sit back and watch to see if they can get more out of a deal with the new ruler. Dorne has a fresh army that did not take any hits from the final seasons. They have NO reason to care about Bran or trust him. They will most likely invade King's Landing kill Bran and at the very least declare their independence. The other Kingdoms will likely follow suit.
Having Bran on the throne breaks with the entire point of Game of Thrones. Its not enough to be intelligent, its not enough to be powerful, and its not enough to be loved. You need some degree of all 3 to keep the throne. The truth is Cersei shouldn't have been as successful as she was, because it also flew in the face of what we knew about the game.
I think that's his point. You are going to have those that will not relinquish that power easily. And it isn't hard to believe that the people will rally against being told by the Capital who will and will not rule the people. While we all see Bran as kind, it won't be hard to imagine someone unkind being on the throne at a later day.
Sometime we see Winterfell as a different environment cause we had such an inside view of it, but I assume that each Kingdom has similar characteristics to them. Can you imagine the north being told by the Capitol that Ned Stark's children weren't going to be allowed to rule after him? I imagine it doesn't go well...
The Game of Thrones is not just alive and well, its about to go into overdrive. You will have each Kingdom pushing to pull away from the Capital's decrees more and more, or you will see Dorne over throw King's Landing immediately while the rest of the country is in turmoil.
I think they had enough time to give us episode 7. I mean it will only take 15 minutes to show a full and ready Dorne army walk up and take over King's Landing since there are only about 20 people guarding it.
Thats my problem with it. To hold King's landing you have to use your families army. King's Landing was mostly the Lannister's Army after King Jofferey became King. Who is Bran's army? Clearly not the North, cause they are now their own Kingdom. The only one on the council who might be able to provide troops would have been Tyrion, but his army has been destroyed. Bronn is probably going to be dealing with revolts for the foreseeable future, since I assume there is still someone that SHOULD be next in line for the title he has claimed.
The show ends trying to make it seem like the game of thrones is at an end, but honestly the environment has never been more ripe for it.
Hey but you're forgetting all of the heroic deeds he performed at the battle of Winterfell.... oh... nevermind.
Agreed! All of this needed to be over a few seasons.
Actually she was never a liked character for me. The execution was off, to be fair I think its mainly due to time remaining. Actually MOST of the problems with the show this season stems from it. Epic battles shouldn't be solved in 30 minutes of 1 episode. People shouldn't be able to teleport around Westeros. Character arcs that take entire seasons to develop shouldn't be blown up in a few minutes of screen time (barring major catastrophic changes).
That doesn't let the writers off the hook. These writers fell flat trying to write for Little Finger and Varys ever since they took control, and they have moved from subtle political gestures to heavy handed tactics for all characters. And since episode one of this season, I have had that annoying feeling that I was watching writers check off boxes each and every episode, this is the most painful to me. Makes it very hard to stay in the moment of the show.
I was more referring to her in the beginning of exile. The slaves loved her cause she was freeing them. She never gave the innocents of King's Landing that same opportunity. The Dothraki didn't seem to care for her at all early on, they just wouldn't go against her husband, and remember most of them did abandon her as soon as he died.
And I would have enjoyed your version of slipping into madness over the shows. However, your idea would have still seemed forced if they tried to do it all in 1 episode. Both of these ideas would have been better served with a few episodes of turmoil to better flesh it out.
As far as I can tell, the only way this works, is for us to ONLY be following Caps timeline. Essentially when Cap did what he did but appears in the future that means at some point we stopped following the right timeline and we were then only following his... And even this solution has holes.
You gotta love time travel in movies...