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ecarle wrote:"Me, Too" seems to be sorting itself out. After an initial fusillade of "sudden death career endings"(Cosby, Weinstein, Spacey, Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, Senator Al Franken...even maybe Dustin Hoffman, who has disappeared)....matters have subsided and a tricky examination of the overall sexuality of Hollywood has come to the fore: sex is the currency of men with power and women who want jobs. (In gay situations, it can be a same sex power relationship.)
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When you summarize the sudden career death endings like that- it looks like some form of mass hysteria. There's a huge difference between "I felt uncomfortable when he flirted with me" and true sexual assault. I think a good portion of the "me too movement" is actually sexual buyers remorse.
ecarle wrote:
What's consensual and what's not...is what its all about.
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The definition of consensual was not the same for Asia and Weistein. He obviously thought it was consensual, especially after 5 YEARS of having sex with her.
And he probably thought being "pushy" was part of courting these girls. He's disgusting, but the entire culture is about prostituting yourself in one way or another. These people have no real moral values and don’t know when they are crossing the line. The one recent Weinstein victim who was wearing a wire really does have a case, she was fighting to get away from him and it's all recorded.
The weak excuse "I was forced to have sex with him for a job and needed help paying for childcare" claim from Asia Argento, who is reported to be worth around 4 million dollars, not her family's money but her own as a film director and actress. She is Italian film royalty. Asia’s grandfather was Elio Luxardo, a photographer for Mussolini known as the Italian Leni Riefenstahl (yes they are/were proud Fascists). Her entire family, not just her parents, but uncles and grandparents are well known in the industry. She didn't need to sleep with anyone for a job or money.
ecarle wrote:It seems sad that dubbing was the way they had to go with the Eastwood Westerns. Subtitles would have been more "pure" -- but how could Clint speak Italian?
So we are stuck with dubbing.
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These films were intended for the international market. The Italians dubbed their own movies anyway, even if they were in Italian. Fellini was a master at getting the dubbing in sync with the actors lips. It actually was a fairly common practice in Europe at the time.
Many films were shot with un-blimped cameras, so noisy they could be heard over a microphone on set. This allowed actors to flub or stumble a line, and a retake is not needed. The mistake can be corrected in the dubbing booth. Rather than fight camera noise and other extraneous sounds (Hitch hated shooting on location because of sound issues), the sound person would record a scratch track, used as a guide for the actors when they would return to the studio weeks/months later to "dub" their own lines. Of course, dubbing studios charge by the hour, so good and fast is the producer's goal. It doesn't always work out: with some actors better at getting back into character in such an isolated, sterile environment. Overall, this process is cost effective, allowing the picture to be shot using fewer takes. Fewer takes=less film needed and shorter production schedule = cost effective. Plus, those Italian crews were noisy, and directors were yelling at the actors while they were filming a scene. Leone was guilty of this at times.
Again, because dubbing has its cost factors, these movies tend to have limited, pithy dialog, and lots of visual storytelling augmented with music and sound effects. The Spaghetti Westerns have their own charm. While not polished Hollywood style, they are in a class all their own.
Same for the 70's and 80's Hong Kong films, dubbing was standard for the international market.
BTW. John Boorman's "Excalibur" was made this way: all the dialog was dubbed later by the cast.
We have the BluRay of all three Eastwood/Leone pictures. They look good, and really should be seen in their full 'scope format. To this day, young Directors of Photography hold the cinematography in high esteem, and wonder how they can capture that "look". Exquisite textures! Much of the exteriors in Spain were shot early morning or late afternoon for strong backlighting and texture, filling in actors faces with reflectors or arcs. TGTB&TU definitely suffers some low budget problems. The interiors and many of the street scenes were shot at Cinecitta with a Techniscope Mitchell BNC--a quiet camera, but still, on set sound recording is only for a scratch track. Like you said, Swanstep, the dialog tracks are in different languages; in this case three: Italian, Spanish and English. In typical European fashion, actors come in and loop their dialog in post production. On GB&U, the location work was shot in Spain with a small crew, lightweight camera package (2-Arr IIc Techniscopes with a set of primes and one zoom, but 2 arc lights for fill in that blazing desert sun) and a scratch track for sound. This is according to my husband, he's a film director.
My husband personally experienced Italian moviemaking many years ago when one night he stumbled across an Italian crew in Miami: a movie released as "Super Fuzz". Met star Terrence Hill-couldn't speak English, and director Sergio Corbucci-could speak some English. As they shot a scene, actors were all delivering dialog to each other in their native tongue-English and Italian. As someone involved in film, he was interested in watching how they worked. The American actors were playing mob types, and it looked like some sort of gangster meeting in a parking lot in front of a restaurant. The crew was small: shooting with Arriflex IIc, a DP/operator, 2 ACs, electrician, make-up/hair, 2 ADs, scriptgirl, a few grips, and a sound man (Nagra deck) with boom operator. That's how the Italian crews roll; small, fast and noisy.
ecarle wrote:
Asia has also entered into the reportage on the suicide of her lover Anthony Bourdain, who was a staunch defender of her against Weinstein and his lawyers. Rose MacGowan turns out to be a protective friend of Asia's so...the whole thing merges together with some real tragedy to go with the scandal.
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Bourdain's death was really shocking. I was a fan of his for a long time, I read his books and watched his shows. Although I really enjoy some of Asia's movies, I found her behavior after his death to be strange. Then, Asia started making statements through Rose McGowan about Anthony's death all over social media. Rose claims Bourdain and Asia had an open relationship to justify those photos of Asia all over that French journalist. The entire thing just leaves me with questions. Both Asia and Rose look frightening now, I must say, they look like the witchy villains in some of Dario Argento movies. I'm sorry for them, they were lovely looking not that long ago, what happened?! The Harvey Weinstein stuff makes me roll my eyes. He's a bad casting couch pig, yes, I see that. But, I feel both Rose and Asia are just attention seekers with very little understanding of right and wrong. I replied to swanstep above linking the interview with Asia where she admits to a consensual sexual relationship with Weinstein FOR YEARS! How can she keep this victim mentality? Again, I can be a fan of the artist but not a fan of the person. These are not my role models, not at all.
Can they eliminate free will and create biological robots out of people? Can amnesia be induced?
The loss of free will is somewhat problematic, because the robot-people would not be very good spies. So they tinkered with the psyche. You still need a cunning spy, not a robot. I've also been reading about tradecraft (espionage), they needed a certain type of person for these ideas to work. There really is no way to do a conclusive lab experiment on some of this stuff, real world conditions became the testing ground at times. Intentionally inducing amnesia was admitted to be successful (using trauma, electric shock, drugs...).
These sick individuals might have done experiments on each other too. There was the case of CIA agent Frank Olson who was [unknowingly?] dosed with LSD and jumped out of a high rise window. His family did a secret second autopsy and found out [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson[/url] His family is still claiming the CIA is withholding documents from them. It's a mystery whatever happened to him.
One of the current experts on multiple personalities (or DID) is Dr. Colin Ross, he explains how during these experiments, they used hypnosis and other methods on subjects to create new identities. These identities would stand up to a lie detector test successfully [he didn't do the experiments, he is critical of them]. Also they tried to create new identities for a person to carry out a task and then be totally amnesic about the task. - Dr. Ross explains "real world simulations where a woman would go into one room, retrieve a document, bring it back, come out of hypnotic sleep and have no memory of what she's done."
Yes, people can be brainwashed. To what degree? These ideas come from non-fiction. The more I look into these subjects, the more disgusted I become. John Marks explained how in the late 1940's there became tremendous concern inside the CIA and the US government about the possibilities of mind control. After a Hungarian Cardinal was acting very robotic and controlled when he was speaking at a trial, the question arose in Western government agencies: What if there was a kind of technology to have people commit acts against their own will? The precursor to the CIA was the OSS, and this is where these ideas started.
Sometimes called MKUltra, this mind control program attempted to develop "real" Manchurian Candidates who could commit assassinations and not remember. If they were captured, interrogation would lead no where since the assassin couldn't remember. Keeping secrets safe was the main idea, so the people involved wouldn't be able leak any info. Marks's book is based on the seven remaining boxes of documents from this program, the doctors involved destroyed the other seven boxes of documents. So we don't have a full record of everything. It is claimed to be unsuccessful. But, the CIA also denied doing these experiments in the first place. After being confronted with evidence, now it is admitted they were "testing the possibility".
When Sandoz pharmaceuticals developed LSD, the US government tried it as a truth serum, but it didn't work ('Hoffman's Potion' is a good documentary about Hoffman developing LSD, it's free on youtube). While not a truth serum, LSD did produce an altered state of consciousness, and many of the mind control experiments involved drugs and hypnosis, and electrical signals. Some people who they used for experimentation were on the fringes of society. The scientists and doctors behind these programs have no qualms about experimenting on humans because they consider people the same as animals. The world is their laboratory.
The Golden State killer is a very odd story, I've been following it. And the way they got the DNA evidence and linked it to the killer is also strange, from one of those ancestry open share family tree DNA websites looking for family members.
She rapes, yes. Mostly she is going through her own attack in her head... but there are several other victims and she does indeed "rape" as her alternate personality.
A quote from the article
"Argento said, “He kept contacting me.” For a few months, Weinstein seemed obsessed, offering her expensive gifts.
What complicates the story, Argento readily allowed, is that she eventually yielded to Weinstein’s further advances and even grew close to him. Weinstein dined with her, and introduced her to his mother. Argento told me, “He made it sound like he was my friend and he really appreciated me.” She said that she had consensual sexual relations with him multiple times over the course of the next five years, though she described the encounters as one-sided and “onanistic.” The first occasion, several months after the alleged assault, came before the release of “B. Monkey.” “I felt I had to,” she said. “Because I had the movie coming out and I didn’t want to anger him.” She believed that Weinstein would ruin her career if she didn’t comply. Years later, when she was a single mother dealing with childcare, Weinstein offered to pay for a nanny. She said that she felt “obliged” to submit to his sexual advances."
swanstep wrote:
On the one hand, daughter Asia is one of the (the most?) legally crucial, figure(s) in the Harvey Weinstein case, and I understand that the Italian press has been brutal towards her, basically calling her a liar and claiming that she's a slut/prostitute supposedly beyond the protection of anti-rape/assault laws.
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Because it happened so long ago, there is nothing that can legally be done for Asia's case. She has just been very vocal in the media.
Did you guys read Ronan Farrow's interview in The New Yorker:
[url]https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/from-aggressive-overtures-to-sexual-assault-harvey-weinsteins-accusers-tell-their-stories[/url]
To summarize: Asia was in the French Riviera (over 20 years ago) and was invited to a party in a hotel thrown by Miramax. She got up to the room and she was alone with Weinstein. She reluctantly agreed to give him a massage (umm, yeah) and then he forced himself on to her giving her oral sex. She faked pleasure and then complicated the matter by having a consensual sexual relationship with him for years after! So this might explain why the Italian press calls her a slut. She even calls herself an idiot for not knowing better.
The legally crucial victim was actually wearing a wire, so there can be no "he said, she said".
Which Argento movies have you watched and which ones did you enjoy? I can recommend some others. 'Do you like Hitchcock' was made for TV and it wasn't very good. Pretty much all of his films are dubbed, I think the Italian versions are dubbed too - but I'm not sure, perhaps you will let me know. The dubbing makes for a "lesser" cinematic experience (for me anyway) because you don't really get to hear the performances. Argento has major storytelling problems, but he claims it's intentionally dream like or nightmare like. Don't look too closely for plot holes or flaws, you will find many. Best advice: only watch Argento films if you are in the mood.
I can't believe anyone would remake Suspiria, it only works because of the nightmare quality. Daria Nicolodi (mom of Asia) wrote the story for Suspiria based on tales her grandmother told her. It's not the story but the WAY it's done, of course the style is everything.
I also liked 'Profondo Rosso' or 'Deep Red' starring Daria, in all its badly dubbed glory. It's a good film, if you are in that mood.
His film 'Opera' is not bad either, but the ending is tacked-on. 'Inferno' was pretty good, it's the second film in the Suspiria trilogy and it's not as good, but not bad at all. It has some great moments.
I've been disappointed with most of the recent Argento movies, the older ones are much better. 'Giallo' 2009 with Adrien Brody and Polanski's wife was just OK, not amazing, silly at times. 'Dracula 3D' was disappointing, so was 'Mother of Tears' which is the 3rd movie in the Suspiria trilogy, it was not good.
Now old Dario has a new film coming out 'The Sandman' in 2018 based on the E.T.A. Hoffmann story. It sounds like it would have been amazing if he made it decades ago, but I'm still hopeful.
ecarle wrote:
OK, so Norman has a split personality. Do they really work like this? And what really causes them?
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The split occurs from trauma, or so they say. The compartmentalization of the mind, complete with amnesiac barriers, happens as a protective reaction. The memory is not gone, but in deep storage. When someone can't deal with the trauma, for protection, the mind creates another personality that can deal with that trauma. Or at least this is the theory...
This leads to all kinds of heavy questions dealing with "What is an individual personality? and Where does it come from? and Who am I really?"
Yes, this is how they really work. Psycho and Dressed to Kill are accurate! The Three Faces of Eve was written by 2 psychiatrists.
The duality within is what I meant.
Marnie is a thief, but also a victim. It's complex and confusing who is "good" and who is "bad" in Marnie. I never understood why Mark didn't go for Diane Baker, but I digress. Then there's that strange rape scene on their honeymoon, where Mark tries to cure Marnie of her sexual problems. And come to think of it... there it is again: Childhood sexual trauma - Bruce Dern wanted child-age Marnie sexually and was subsequently attacked by Marnie's mother. The color red triggers her because of the blood in the attack, and the storm/lightening. In a way, she is living as several identities with different names. Hmmm.
Now, I'm going to spoil The Stendhal Syndrome (1996) so if you don't want have the film spoiled do not read further!
Truth be told, I read the plot before watching and it didn't spoil it for me because I get lost watching the movie anyway.
Anna Manni (Asia Argento, daughter of the director) travels to Florence on the trail of a serial killer, Alfredo Grossi (Thomas Kretschmann). While visiting the famous Uffizi Gallery, Anna is overcome by Stendhal syndrome. She faints and loses her memory and doesn't remember who she is. She goes to her hotel and "enters into the artwork", she remembers she is a detective. Then she is subjected to a sadistic sexual attack by the very man she is tracking. Although she manages to escape, Anna is left deeply traumatized. She starts sessions with a psychologist in an effort to come to terms with her own deep-seated emotional trauma. She drastically changes her appearance, cutting of her long brown hair and dressing more "like a boy". There are more rapes, complete with razor blades. Artwork comes alive for Anna and the killer/rapist knows this, he takes her to a graffiti filled empty building, where she freaks out and she is raped again. She turns the tables somehow, gets in a position to kill him. Funny enough, he wants to be arrested and pleads "I have the right to be arrested" she says "You have the right to shut up" and she shoots him, one of the best lines since Dirty Harry. She kills him and pushes him into a water way. She changes her appearance yet again, this time being ultra feminine in a blond wig and red lipstick. The artwork doesn't come alive for her anymore. But, she thinks the killer is still calling & stalking her. He knows everything about her and more murders occur. Of course, it's revealed that she has multiple personalities and she is doing the killing. Watching the earlier parts of the film again, you can see where the artwork triggers her alter to come out and rape/kill. Split personality killer/victim.
By some amazing coincidence / synchronicity... I also recently watched Dario Argento's film The Stendhal Syndrome (1996) for the first time. I have watched almost every Argento film, this was one that I just never got around to seeing. It's up on youtube free right now, the quality is crappy and it really should be watched in HD because it's one of his best looking movies. For those of you who like giallo type horror, this one is really one of Argento's best. But, there are also half a dozen horrible rape scenes that are unwatchable (for me anyway) and I consider myself a tough babe - for watching movies anyway. Despite the unwatchable rape scenes, it was one of his most beautiful and well written movies with shades of Psycho and Vertigo all over. At the same time, it's uniquely Argento -who was known as the Italian Hitchcock, but it's really his own style. Great Ennio Morricone score!
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stendhal_Syndrome[/url]
a quote from wiki “Stendhal syndrome is a real syndrome, first diagnosed in Florence, Italy in 1982. Argento said he experienced Stendhal syndrome as a child. While touring Athens with his parents young Dario was climbing the steps of the Parthenon when he was overcome by a trance that caused him to become lost from his parents for hours. The experience was so strong that Argento never forgot it; he immediately thought of it when he came across Graziella Magherini’s book about the syndrome, which would become the basis of the film.” end of wiki quote
here is a link to the wiki about the "real" syndrome [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stendhal_syndrome[/url]
The Stendhal Syndrome is a psychosomatic disorder that causes rapid heartbeat, dizziness, fainting, confusion and even hallucinations when an individual is exposed to an experience of great personal significance, particularly viewing art.[1] It is not listed as a recognised condition in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. end of wiki quote
You know the end of DePalma's movie Sisters when Jennifer Salt is strapped to a table and brainwashed to say "there was no murder" by evil Dr. Emile? Even at the end, she has no memory of the murder... Well, in a nut shell, that's what the doctors were trying to do in these experiments. In addition, they were trying to create "alters" for specific purposes, but it didn't turn out to work like The Manchurian Candidate (or at least mind controlled alter assassins are 'claimed to be a failure' in Marks's book). It was a cooperative effort between doctors at universities and government military funding. People who were tricked into taking part in these experiments included those with depression and anxiety, they were seeking help and were asked to take part in "behavioral science experiments". There was even the wife of a Canadian politician who is interviewed in the 60 minutes segment explaining what they really did to her, she is still traumatized. Sick human experimentation.
Dr. Emile in Sisters was probably doing the same type of mind control stuff to the twins, then he had just the one surviving twin.
In Sisters, there's also the VERY CLEAR inappropriate sexual relationship between the doctor/ex husband and the nice twin. There's obvious sexual abuse since she was a child, because he's in all the old photos with the twins as children in that institute. I re-watched Sisters recently and was amazed by how much was revealed. So, there again we get the split personality because of childhood sexual abuse and the trauma of losing her twin, a part of her becomes the bad twin.
There was a time when I thought it was all made-up fiction, but once I started reading about all these topics, I could see these ideas portrayed very much according to the real stories.
I don't think it's just a mere gimmick. I've been researching this topic and several overlapping "splitting of the mind" subjects.
The mind has the ability to create an amnesiac barrier. For example: Let's say you were in an accident, you might not remember it because your mind can compartmentalize certain memories that are too traumatic. These memories are saved to process later. Sometimes the loss of memory of an accident never returns, it's just blocked out. Other times it floods back in slow motion with every detail, like reliving a memory. This is well known, but nobody really has any real answers to explain HOW this happens in the mind. We might not have the instrumentation/technology to measure how it happens in the brain, but it is a real phenomenon. Brain scans seem to offer nothing to answer these questions.
Can a personality really split? It's an area still being researched, but yes, I think it's possible, but rare.
Centuries ago it would be labelled "demonic possession" without a doubt. I also think there are fakers out there, to muddy the waters.
The most disturbing element by far: mind control experiments. There is a book called "The Search for the Manchurian Candidate" by John Marks on this subject [url]https://www.amazon.com/Search-Manchurian-Candidate-Behavioral-Sciences/dp/0393307948/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1531063287&sr=8-1&keywords=john+marks+the+search+for+the+manchurian+candidate&dpID=51vN2KnV6EL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch[/url] .
Using the term "behavioral science experiments" doctors were trying to intentionally split the mind, sometimes using various traumatizing techniques. The book only has HALF of the story because half the files were destroyed before they could be released by the freedom of information act. There's a 60 minutes and a BBC mainstream news segment on youtube, if you want a "cleaned up nice summary" where they leave out the really depraved stuff (but it makes the point even edited).
"The who is buried in Greenlawn cemetary becomes another one of her victims."
The Psychiatrist explains at the end that Norman stole her body and they buried a "weighted down" coffin.
ecarle wrote:
I've noted before that I don't qualify as a film buff. I'm a "genre" buff -- thrillers, Westerns, comedies, action. But then that's where a lot of people are today (see: MCU and Star Wars.)
I've certainly loved all the movies I've seen in my lifetime, but so many of them are off the beaten track and special to me, perhaps alone(Lonely are the Brave, Mirage, Hotel, Charley Varrick, Used Cars, North Dallas Forty...to name a few.)
My movie blog would be pretty damn esoteric, come to think of it. Better perhaps to post.
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That's good, though. If I wanted to read the 'same old same old', I wouldn't be reading all these posts. I like many weirdo obscure movies and have no problem with the lack of recognition from the masses. Sometimes I read your posts and have nothing to say other than "yes, exactly". If you get zero responses at times, it's possible there is nothing else to add to your thoughts. Like Marion with the newspaper full of money, I just read that and agreed. I will ask other folks on here as well to contribute to a movie blog, I have been enjoying their posts for many years. This group is unique and you can't find discussion like this anywhere really (or tell me where to look if it exists elsewhere). Sometimes I don't have the time to give a proper reply but I still take the time to read the posts.
Well, if I start a movie blog... perhaps you would contribute from time to time as a guest writer. I really don't have the time to devote right now, maybe one day in the future. You are a specialist of sorts. I quite enjoy all the conversations with others here too, the back and forth exchange is great!