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We went to see Psycho today on the big screen. It was awesome, truly is the way it was meant to be seen. The extra footage was there, but it was barely noticeable unless you are like us and notice every shot. We went with our 15 year old daughter and her friend who had never seen or heard of it before. He'll remember that for the rest of his life.
Levenda also goes into Manson's early life. But, his books are about evil.
I'll try to find those quotes too, as you were asking above if Manson was a killer before the Tate Labianca murders. He was severely abused as a young child, I remember reading that. He was a criminal, in trouble his entire life. And Manson was also a theta clear high level Scientologist (which is just another mind control program to make people act against their own free will). Which would explain the devotion of his mind controlled "family".
continued quote
"The perpetrator left no clues, no identifiable fingerprints, nothing. The body might have lain there for days, except that the victim’s co-worker stopped by to see why he hadn’t shown up for work that morning.
The body was found. The police were called.
The officer who responded to that call and who was the first policeman at the scene is today the Chief of Police of Ashland, Kentucky. The murder took place in 1969. He told me it remains unsolved—and the murder open on the books—to this day. The victim’s name was Darwin Scott. He was the brother of one Colonel Scott. Colonel Scott had been sued—successfully—for paternity of a boy, one “No Name Maddox,” by a girlfriend and sometime prostitute, Kathleen Maddox. No Name Maddox would soon be known by another name. Charles Manson.
Darwin Scott was Charles Manson’s uncle."
Oddly similar crime scenes, huh?
More from Levenda about Darwin Scott murder
"It was a cheap apartment in a small Appalachian town, and the sitting room was full of blood. The body had been savagely attacked, and bore nineteen separate stab wounds. The attack was so passionate, so bestial, that the murder weapon—a kitchen knife—was still in the body, pinning it to the floor.
It might have been a love affair gone terribly wrong. People from Ashland, Kentucky have been known to get emotional, even irrational, over love and the promises of love and the mistaken assumptions of love and its follies, like a town out of a country and western song. Or it might have been something else. Something more sinister. A warning, borne of a hatred so deep and a malevolence so strong that slain flesh and spilled blood were only symbols—mere tokens—of its power.
The victim was a nobody. An ex-con, once convicted of writing bad checks. A man down on his luck, working for a trucking company.
He had been stabbed in a fury of nineteen slashing, slivering strokes strokes—in a wood frame house in the middle of the night or the early hours of the morning on a side street in a small country town—and no one heard a thing... continued in next post
continued Levenda quote
"Why, then, was Marina killed? A lust killing, pure and simple? Manson getting off on savagely murdering a college coed? His schedule for the day of the kidnap of Marina Habe and her subsequent murder argues against this; he left Death Valley for one day and returned the next. That implies he went to Los Angeles with a specific purpose in mind, a task to accomplish, and returned when the deed was done.
Marina’s mother—Eloise Hardt—had looked out her window that night at 3:30 A.M. and saw a black sedan next to her daughter’s smaller, foreign car and two men, one who looked young, about twenty years old. The sedan peeled out, and when Mrs. Hardt went to investigate, her daughter was nowhere to be found. Manson had been driving a black sedan that day, and had been visiting John and Michelle Phillips of the Mamas and the Papas at a New Year’s Eve party."
Say what now? Manson was at a New Years party with Papa John Philips??? Same circles.
A quote from Levenda's Sinister Forces:
"Somehow, the search for the story behind the murder of young Marina Habe in Hollywood in 1968 led to her father, an important figure in World War II literature, to the OSS, psychological warfare operations, the Congo, Vietnam and beyond. Marina was believed to be an associate of the Manson “family,” and it is alleged that Charles Manson himself stabbed her to death. Was she selected for a particular reason, or
was it just an evil coincidence? There is some evidence to show that the Manson “family” murder of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca the day after the Tate murders was a contract killing. Indeed, much of the violence perpetrated by Manson and his followers had a basis in other criminal activity. They were purposeful. Manson does not fit the profile of a serial killer, and indeed his crimes do not fit that pattern at all. A serial killer would not have missed the slaughter at the Tate household, for instance, which Manson had done, sending his followers inside to commit the hideous knife attacks on the five unfortunate victims. If he was somehow responsible for the murder of his uncle, Darwin Scott, that can be laid to a family grudge going back to Manson’s childhood in Ashland, Kentucky.... continues in next post
From everything I have read, it is implied the Labianca's murder to be a contract killing, but I have no idea. The more I read the more questions I have.
There was also another murder of a woman named Marina Habe around the same time in 1968, possibly slain by the Manson family according to the official sources. Habe was a daughter of an intelligence officer, just like Sharon.
Manson's uncle Darwin Scott was killed around the same time 1968 in Ashland Kentucky (where Manson was born). It's UNSOLVED still to this day. It's a mysterious intricate web of connections and coincidences.
A quote about Christopher Jones from that Mathis paper "In 2007, Jones, then 66, gave an explosive interview to the DailyMail (London), claiming to have been in an ongoing affair with Sharon Tate in 1969, while she was pregnant. Not only that, but he claimed they were in love. It wasn't just an affair, he says. That is all strange enough, but it gets stranger. After Jones wrapped Ryan's Daughter in 1970, he quit acting for good and moved to. . . wait for it. . . 10050 Cielo Drive. Sharon Tate's house. That doesn't come from the Bulletin, it comes from mainstream sources, including Wikipedia, which admit it. We are told he stayed in the caretaker's house behind the main house, but that may be even weirder. In any case, he was on the property. "
Here is the article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-478867/The-final-affair-Roman-Polanskis-murdered-wife-Sharon-Tate.html
The Peter Levenda 'Sinister Forces' books are non fiction. So is the Dave McGowan book. These are based on verifiable public facts you can confirm (not opinion or theory).
https://www.amazon.com/Nine-Sinister-Forces-Political-Witchcraft/dp/098418581X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3NH6UA8HNP1BL&keywords=sinister+forces+levenda&qid=1564595707&s=gateway&sprefix=sinister+force%2Caps%2C371&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/Weird-Scenes-Inside-Canyon-Laurel/dp/1909394122/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2NEP5JWJWVBK8&keywords=weird+scenes+inside+the+canyon&qid=1564595844&s=gateway&sprefix=weird+scenes%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-1
Much of the Miles Mathis paper is also filled verifiable facts that you have never heard of before... and you have the link already if you have the desire to read it and decide for yourself. Again, I disagree with his conclusion and his opinions are off in many places. But he makes some great points, mainly the fake or tampered crime scene and autopsy photos and how the victims intersected with the perpetrators. A quote:
"While we are looking at Manson, we should remember that Manson was tied to the victims before the murders. This evidence is usually suppressed, and the standard story is that Manson thought Terry Melcher lived at 10050 Cielo Drive. The murders are therefore sold to us as random. However, there was testimony from Layne Wooten to seeing Manson in a red Ferrari with a woman in a scarf in Topanga Canyon in July 1969. Manson was a bum without a job: how could he be driving a Ferrari? Turns out Sharon Tate owned a red Ferrari at that time. The story has been planted that the red Ferrari was Beach Boy Dennis Wilson's, but that has never been confirmed. What has been confirmed is that Sharon Tate owned one. It was found in a body shop shortly after the murders. And it was probably Abigail Folger in the car with Manson. Manson and Folger were linked through Esalen as well, since both had been there in the past few months...."
Rewriting history can be touchy for some people. I think (for my self) the concept would have worked much better if it was a fictional character that was supposed to be *like* the real Sharon but not exactly. If her destiny is different her name should have been different too. He could have done something similar with Hitler dying in the theater too (make it a German Chancellor *like* Hitler). This silly stuff sours otherwise brilliant films. It's fiction, so pick a lane. I love Tarantino movies, and my favorite ones have none of that stuff.
I read Peter Levenda's 'Sinister Forces' trilogy and both Sharon and Manson's life are peppered throughout those works. Major factors in their lives have been left out of the "official" race war silly Bugliosi narrative and motives that make no sense (which I've read, of course). Levenda's books are not actually conspiracy books at all, just about the nature of evil forces and evil places. I'll see if I can find some interesting quotes for you out of there...
Another book I highly suggested for you last year was Dave McGowan's 'Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon: Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream' which has a intersection point with Manson and all those bands of the era. You might want to give that one a chance. Dave is great because he only give facts.
The conspiracy theory that Sharon never really died comes from Miles W. Mathis. You can read his paper here http://mileswmathis.com/tate.pdf
NOTE: I strongly disagree with his final conclusion... however, he does point out some very strange anomalies with the crime scene photos, autopsy photos, trial, and so much more. He also points out that Sharon was having an affair with Christopher Jones while she was pregnant. Also all the ties Manson had to the victims before the murders (not just thinking Melcher lived there).
But in the end, I have the same "we'll never really know" like you said.
Thanks for all your detailed info ecarle. I had a feeling he would do the alternate history thing again.
I don't know if I want to see it now.
Are you familiar with the conspiracy theory that Sharon didn't really die?
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that my husband is a writer/director of low budget films and TV. He's not famous or anything. The Ethan Coen story was from way back BEFORE the Coen brothers were famous at a screening of Blood Simple (when it first came out). My husband talked with him in the parking lot after the screening, mostly about budget concerns and other boring topics. I think it's endearing to know that film was cut on their kitchen table.
Because he works in the biz, my hubby has lots of stories meeting or working with well known people. But, again, it's really not a big deal, he's just a regular working guy. He was quite proud to write for "Gunny" R. Lee Ermey for several years on a TV show called Military Makeover. Gunny actually signed some of his scripts with "good writing" which was very nice. RIP Gunny.
And my hubby got to say hello to Jamie Lee Curtis when she was on the set of a TV show he was working on. If he had gotten the chance to talk with her more I am sure it would have been "What did your mother say about working with Hitchcock"? type of conversation, but there was no chance to talk. He actually had the chance to ask Melanie Griffith the same question back in the 80's about her mother working with Hitch, and she was very friendly and open. She said she was a very young child and Hitch creeped her out a bit.
As for working with certain editors, my husband has several he really likes for different reasons. Some of them are our personal friends outside of work too. Many of the editors are also musicians and have a sense of rhythm to the cuts.
Then, there's the opposite: There are certain editors that will make the job harder because they actually argue and backtalk the director/producers... and decide they don't "get" the way it was envisioned when it was shot. A good editor can make all the difference. A bad or lazy one is a nightmare. Hitch was blessed with excellent creative collaborators.
My husband and I were talking about editing. A few frames trimmed here, a few put back in there, can make all the difference in the world. There's nothing worse than an editor who is not "in synch" (pun intended) with the director or producer. An editor who fits in can elevate a picture. He has certain editors he likes to work with depending on the subject/project style.
ecarle, what did you use for editing? Ethan Cohen told my husband they cut "Blood Simple" on the kitchen table with a pair of rewinds, a splicer, a synch block with sound readers and a Moviescope. He said that's pretty much where all indies started back in the days when there was only film. My husband had that set-up. They really work! As for eyestrain: 35mm is easier to see than 16mm.
Thanks for your input! Haven't seen Cruising, but it sounds like a good candidate for a Directors Cut on DVD/BluRay if he hasn't done it already.
Why do you think that scene was shot that way? We don't see or hear Alfredo. What other reason would there be to hide the killer's voice and appearance? Please tell me because I'm really open to another explanation.
There are several other references to Anna being Alfredo from the start in the museum... if I have time I will go through and write them down later. Repeating imagery (such as the waterfall, for one example) from paintings to reality for the final bye-bye Alfredo scene. Also the fact that Anna's mother was a painter. I wonder if the book has more backstory and makes more sense.
Also, it's implied in what she says to her psychologist on several occasions, even about cutting her hands ... Alfredo cuts his own hands too in one of the rape scenes. Let's not forget, she does sexually force herself on her little boyfriend who brings her frozen pizza and funny movies (around 37 min).
Years ago I heard that Dario was usually the hands of the killer, especially the black gloved killer of his giallo movies - and those killers were usually women in the story. Not sure when he decided not to be the killer hands, but the way the scenes with Alfredo are done... I don't know.
I didn't see the Piaf movie yet either. I liked her in Inception and Midnight in Paris too. She was also pretty good in a supporting role in Blood Ties (2013) directed by her handsome actor/director husband Guillaume Canet. I didn't like Allied, but her acting was good.
'A Woman in Danger' is from 2001 -17 years ago now, so Cotillard is much younger. She carries the film and her acting is superb. It's just a well done film all around in my opinion. It's very French...
I wrote
On the subject of French films, you guys might really enjoy the semi-Hitchcockian A Woman in Danger 2001 starring the talented and beautiful Marion Cotillard. It's on amazon prime right now. If you haven't already discovered this gem, watch it before they take it down. I highly recommend it!
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ecarle replied
I'll try to find it. I think Cotillard is a beauty.
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Here's the link ecarle (and anyone else looking for something good to watch), it's included free with prime right now [url]https://www.amazon.com/Woman-Danger-Marion-Cotillard/dp/B017Y3V6EE/ref=sr_1_1?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1532705109&sr=1-1&keywords=a+woman+in+danger&dpID=51QAmx-K7yL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch[/url]
wish it was in HD, because it's such a beautiful film. The south of France and Marion Cotillard couldn't be more beautiful.
If you watch it again, there are several clues. The most obvious clue she is the killer/rapist is the scene with the lady in the red dress and long brown hair who ends up dead (around 48 min). It's all 'killer point of view' shots, and then when the killer talks to the red dress lady, the sound of his voice is muffled/mumbled and we only hear red dress lady reply about how she broke up with her boyfriend and likes kissing "I'm the oral type" umm, yeah. The brief glimpse of the killer's shadow looks like Asia dressed in men's clothes in her boy phase with short hair. There are other clues, but this one is major.
Alfredo did really exist, we see his wife and his art in his house. Asia talks to his other living victims. But, there would be no other reason to muffle Alfredo's voice and show it from his point of view with red dress lady unless it really isn't him.
Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy the film as much as I did. In my opinion, it's one of the best later Argento films. Did you watch it in Italian with English subtitles? Was it dubbed? Asia was very upset that her voice was dubbed in the English version, she felt it took away from her performance. I thought this was some of her best acting.
Dario originally wanted Jennifer Jason Leigh or Bridget Fonda to play Anna but they were busy. The film he made with Asia before this one, 'Trauma', was much more B-movie feeling, in fact every other movie he made with Asia was far worse than TSS. I don't suggest watching those! ... unless you're in the mood for b-movie horror (sometimes I am in the b-movie mood).
The museum scene - basically the first 10 minutes or so are the best part of the film, as well as the music by Morricone. It's the only movie ever to be allowed to film in the famous Uffizi Gallery. All the artwork shown is also significant, such as the Caravaggio Shield of Medusa, who has her own tragic rape story: she was once a beautiful maiden and she was raped by Poseidon in Athena's temple, so Athena made Medusa into the snake headed monster who turns onlookers to stone.
ecarle wrote:
BTW, I note that they are going to try to release an older movie with Kevin Spacey later this year -- The Billionaire Boy's Club -- without removing Spacey from it.
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That film title is unfortunate. Do people not make the mental association of "Boys Club" in combination with Spacey who is accused of fondling 14-17 year old boys???
The plot of this film sounds good, however. The story summary from imdb "A group of wealthy boys in Los Angeles during the early 1980s establish a 'get-rich-quick' scam that turns deadly."
I would go see that...
ecarle wrote: I bookstore browsed McGowan's recent book and she gets into detail about a long affair with director Robert Rodriguez(a QT buddy; together, they made the two halves of "Grindhouse" and McGowan is in both of them.) Rodriguez seems to move from lover to tormentor to user in McGowan's recall, but she DID have a relationship with him, and she WAS in Grindhouse.
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Her book 'Brave' with her shaved head on the cover? [Isn't interesting when the beautiful actresses and pop stars self-destruct, they always shave their head or cut off all their hair?] I read the first few pages while browsing too. It is very honest and raw writing, and surprisingly not whiny. I knew she was in the Children of God cult as a child, this cult was one of the worst because they encouraged sex with very young children (although she denies being sexually abused there). Then, she says she was in the Cult of Hollywood later, but I didn't get to read the later chapters. If you want real examples of trauma based mind control, that is what that cult tried to do to Rose as a child; serving her pet lamb for dinner and laughing at her as they told her. She still has problems with her own self worth and identity, who knows if she will ever truly heal or if it's even possible. The self destructing head shaving also goes with all that, and she even writes about how she hated her long hair because it "made the real her disappear". She was great in Death Proof and Planet Terror. I had no idea Rodriguez tormented her in any way, as I didn't get to read the parts were she discusses QT and RR, thanks for the summary. I'm sure RR denies any wrong doing, and it's really difficult to sort opinion from fact here.