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Atarimaster's Replies
Oh, that’s easy to resolve:
Sansa used her mutant telekinetic abilities to cushion the fall.
;-)
> the producers tried so hard to link the White Walkers to the historical Nazis
Huh?
Call me stupid, but I don’t see any similarities. Could you elaborate on this? If there’s a website which already does, it’ll be sufficient for me if you just link to it instead of typing a long reply.
As I’ve said before, I don’t have a lot of time today, so here are just a few more words:
> The writers admit this. (…)
> Which means they had not decided while writing season 6.
OK, I wasn’t aware of this. This of course proves my theory wrong. (DAMN!)
> Makes bringing them back from the dead rather pointless
> because literally anyone else could fill those roles.
Alright, but especially for Beric I have to say that your version doesn’t improve on this. (I think you don’t even mention HOW he dies, or did I overlook it?)
Maybe he could play some important part in killing the Night King, e.g. attacking the Night King while holds down Jon with his foot, and in the very moment that the NK turns to Beric and kills him, Arya jumps out and kills the NK. Thus, Beric would’ve at least caused the distraction that Arya needed to get to the NK.
(This is just an example, the first idea that comes to my mind, probably there are better ways.)
As for Jon… well, he kind of orchestrated the fight against the WW, without him, they would’ve just overrun Winterfell. To me, that’s a satisfying reason for being brought back.
Of course, Beric could also be the one who kills the Night King, BUT I feel that Arya HAS to get an "important kill" or her "Hous of Black&White" storyline would be the one that is basically for nothing. Yes, she did kill the Freys but to me, that seems not enough to justify that story arc.
> Meaning it is like they get to the end of the story and then "oh, crap"
> how do we make it make sense that Arya was set up for this? You know what I mean?
Yes, I understand.
Thanks for your further explanations!
Since it’s late now here, I’m going to restrain myself to three comments. I don’t know yet if I’ll have time to write more tomorrow, but I’d definetely like to come back to this.
> Little finger did not join with the faceless men, he used them to escape.
> It was not little finger that was there it was a faceless assassin using his face.
I got that, but I didn’t get why he should have a connection to the Faceless Men at all, but now you’ve elaborated on that.
> Little Finger's actual fate would be unknown
Umm, if one of the Faceless Men used his face, his fate IS known – to us, not to the other guys in the show, which I guess is what you meant. He’s dead and his face has been taken off at the House of B&W…
> You would have to read the book to understand (…)
> for many hundreds of years the wildings have been trying to get south of the wall
I did read the books, but I forgot about this. Jeez, I have forgotten A LOT, it’s about time I should read them again.
I don’t get why you feel the Wildlings going north of the wall would be stupid?
They’ve lived there forever, and with the White Walkers gone, it’s even better than before. Yes, the climate is harsh but in our world, that didn’t make the Inuit and Yupik go south, too.
And, for the moment I’m not entirely convinced that Jon would kill Dany if she has NOT killed innocents herself. I’ll have to think about that.
BUT apart from the things I’ve mentioned I like your version (as I’ve said, with Ending 1), because it elaborates on details the show just rushed through.
So thanks again, hopefully you’ll see my response as it was intended: To give a constructive critique and honestly saying what I think, NOT to nag.
(I’ll read it again and then more carefully, sometime soon. IF I find something more I don’t like, I’ll report back.)
First of all, thank you for the thought and the work you’ve put into this! Thumbs up!
Secondly, I read this quite fast and I might have missed a thing or two, so if I’m criticizing something just because I didn’t get right, I’m apologizing in advance.
Now:
I MUCH prefer Ending 1!
Ending to is (sorry, but I want to be honest here) for my taste less LotR than the standard Hollywood ending. Dany seeing she was wrong, stepping aside AND a pregnancy and marriage on top… that’s not bittersweet, that’s (sorry again) so sweet it gives me toothaches.
I’m fine with Sansa becoming Queen, but I guess many people will not like it. I’ve got the feeling that Sansa wasn’t well-liked (for whatever reason).
On the other parts, while I don’t feel that it was "half assed contrived nonsense about how it was always meant to be Arya", I’d still be okay with Arya killing the Night King your way, BUT in this case, there’s no explanation why Beric was brought back to life time and time again. (Or did I overlook it? If so, I’m sorry!) Moreover, I don’t like your Jaqen H’ghar part of the story, but this of course is because it contradicts MY interpretation of things (see [url]https://moviechat.org/tt0944947/Game-of-Thrones/5ce385e5f8ae1d1ff874f123/Bronn-will-be-ruling-Westeros-within-a-year?reply=5ce3ce6ef8ae1d1ff874f274[/url] and I prefer to be right. ;-)
Secondly, I also like that Arya gets to see what’s west of Westeros because she WANTS to (and thus, gets a happy ending) not because she HAS to.
Thirdly, Littlefinger going to the Faceless Men seems … well, just wrong to me. Why should he? There was never the slightest hint that he had some connection to the Faceless Men so this whole part of the story seems to "artificial" to me (don’t know if that’s the correct English expression, I hope you know what I mean).
The collapsing roof killing Jaqen H’ghar and the Mountain is a bit too convenient for me.
I don’t get why you feel the Wildlings going north of the wall would be stupid? (tbc)
Oh, please.
Watch the show again, starting at season 1.
Or at least this video: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2sIC9u_do[/url].
I’m not saying the guy who made this video is right on everything, but it does contain a summery of her cruel moments.
Maybe you feel that the end justifies the means (ALL means), but even then it’s hard to deny that she has been cruel, you could only say (if you think that way) that being cruel was fine in that situation.
I agree, it would’ve been better if the Hound had talked her out of it during their road trip. But jeez, they had to rush everything.
And, out of curiosity: Did they really ever mention the exact distance between Winterfell and King’s Landing? If so, I missed that.
> Out of character for Dany to want to know the truth about Jon?
No, out of character to simply step aside for him.
> Dany was always fair and honorable
If "fair and honorable" includes killing people who are in your way, then yes.
Most postings I’ve read (even from people who said that destroying KL was bad writing) didn’t deny that she has been cruel over and over again.
> Its my understanding that GRRM didn't write this mess.
Nobody knows how the books are going to end, so nobody knows if Dany being killed by Jon was his idea or not.
In my eyes, this would have been totally out of character for Daenerys.
However, it remains to be seen if D&D or GRRM are responsible for this "stupid and lazy writing" – that is, IF we ever get the books (and I’m among those who doubt it).
> Dany was done, she was calm
You’re wrong, didn’t you listen to her speech? She was far from done, she said so.
Of course you now can say "But this speech was made up by the same stupid writers who made Jon kill Dany, so it doesn’t count", which IS a valid argument IMO.
But then again you can’t say "she was done and calm". You CAN make that "she SHOULD HAVE BEEN done and calm"… but then you’re in the territory of speculation.
And of course he was all about duty… but duty to whom? In terms of "duty to Dany", well of course he can’t kill her. In terms of "duty to all the people living in Westeros" (the "moral" kind of duty), that’s an entirely different thing.
Just to clarify, what is the course of action you’re suggesting exactly? You’ve repeatedly stated that he should have taken the throne. So you’re suggesting he should have said to Dany: "Sorry, love, but I’m the rightful heir. Now will you kindly step aside and let me do the ruling, please? But don’t worry, I’ll be naming you the Master, sorry, Mistress of Dragons."
Is THAT what you’re suggesting? If not, please clarify.
> Please explain the coffee cup and water bottles too.
"Movie Mistakes" happen in all kind of productions. The web is full of sites listing them, and they have happened before in Game of Thrones. Granted, the cup and the bottles are probably the worst mistakes they ever did, in early seasons they were more in the range of people switching positions between shots or revealing that a sword is made of rubber because it "wobbles".
So these two mistakes might indicate a drop in diligence they are in no way mistakes that were done storywise. (And yes, I agree that there WERE mistakes of that kind, too.)
> Arya was the best person to kill the Night King aka: Death
While I agree that it was a good idea that Arya destroyed the Night King, I have to disagree with your (and the OP’s) "Night King = Death" equation. He was basically the END of death because no one would’ve died anymore but "only" turn zombie.
From the people’s point of view, that’s of course just as bad or even worse… but for people who worship the God of Death he’s the ultimate antagonist.
So it does make sense in my interpretation that Arya, trained by the Faceless Men, is the one to destroy the Night King. It also would explain why Jaqen H’ghar just let her go: Unknowingly, she still is on the mission to fulfill the Many-Faced God’s desires.
Of course, I may be wrong here – it’s just, like I said, my interpretation.
> Yara - the Kingdom of the Isles and the Rivers
Are you sure about Yara ruling the Riverlands?
I mean, did they mention it in the show and if yes, at what point? Because if they did, I missed it.
One more thing regardings the Iron Islands…
In another thead ([url]https://moviechat.org/tt0944947/Game-of-Thrones/5cec2a5126512074f3d9e477/Need-Some-Help-Regarding-6-Kingdoms[/url]) it’s mentioned that Yara now rules the Iron Island AND the Riverlands. If that really was said in the final episode, I missed it.
But that of course would be reason for her not to declare independence because then, the others could’ve said: "Alright, you stay on your stupid barren rock and the Riverlands are run by stupid Edmure Tully."
> crippled useless creepy Bran
He’s not THAT useless. A King who knows everything there is to know IS quite handy.*
Nonetheless – I like your ending!
*) Didn’t occur to me before – when Arya finds out what’s west of Westeros, she doesn’t even have to report back. The moment she knows, he knows. (Or at least, that knowledge is available to him once he checks for it.)
> but Dorne is certainly not weak.
We don’t know that. As far as I remember, they never mentioned how many Dornishmen were on the ships that were destroyed by Euron. Moreover, the new ruler might have a weak position at the moment OR he might be very much like Doran who tried to avoid a conflict at any cost. Of course that’s all speculation, because, well… they DAMN IT didn’t drop a single line regarding the current state of Dorne. (The "damn it" was shouted out at the writers, not at you.)
> Who is the force or Army that would compel them to stay in the 6 kingdoms?
No, I meant that it’s not unlikely that they not even have enough men left to continue their "raiding and plundering" life style. At least not enough to feed the mouths of all women, children and old people that still live on the Iron Islands.
However, yesterday I re-watched S08E06 and I noticed that right at the moment when Sansa declares independence, they cut to Yara and the Dornish Prince… he raises his eyebrows and she puts on a sceptical face.
[url]https://www.dropbox.com/s/gv9qf3klrjqoccj/gotfinale01.png[/url]
So maybe I was wrong and they DID think: "Seven Hells, why wasn’t I thinking of that?" and then, yes, it’d be stupid that they didn’t jump up to follow Sansa’s example.
While I agree on almost everything you say, I still have to disagree here:
> nor doe sit make sense that Dorne and the Iron Island do not demand the same independence.
I referred to that in the posting that is (currently) right above yours, no need to type it again.
Regardings the Night’s Watch: Well, the Wall isn’t needed anymore, but it won’t just melt down, and tearing it down would take years if not decades. They could leave the gates to the tunnel open at all times, but somebody has to check the stability of the tunnel. But for that, I’d be enough if from time to time some builders come by to check on that.
So: No, you’re right, there’s no need for the Night’s Watch anymore. Unless they want to keep it in order to send people there as a punishment as they did before. But uuggh, that’s cruel because they’ve got nothing to do. They’d probably bore themselves to death.
DAMN!
You've got me there. I lied.
In fact, I’m Sibel Kekilli.
I guess if they were, they wouldn’t reveal it.
And IF they’d reveal it, no one would believe them. I mean, would you believe ME if I now claimed that I’m actually Tom Wlaschiha?