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aduty1's Replies
I'm surprised that the viewers went up considering how hated last weeks episode was and the dreadful preview. At least last nights episode was pretty decent and deserved the higher viewer count. It seems like the show is safe this year from a 0.4. Unfortunately, it looks like Dabb will get another chance next season to drive the ratings even lower.
I hope it is an entire horde of BoL troops. A couple of episodes of the complete destruction of the BoL is just the catharsis I need right now.
I liked it, which is very rare for me lately. I like Yockey he can stay.
The good: For some reason Yockey's episode titles amuse the hell out of me. By some miracle a Dean hero moment made it past Dabb and Singer. I was surprised by which twin bought it and even more surprised with her return. Yockey is on a streak with his characters. He has three really original Supernatural hunters with Lily Sunder and the twins. He creates a few more and he could have his own Monster Squad spin off.
The bad: Please fix the colt Sammy. Everything with Mary and Ketch.
So overall a 7. I liked the witch story and his original spin on it. Had to subtract a few points for the BoL mess they had to shoehorn in.
That goes all the way back to Godzilla and Voltron. They always had long drawn out battles that ended with them using their breath or sword which could have killed the monsters to begin with.
Supernatural has that with the angel blades. They are everywhere, they kill most anything and they can be fashioned into bullets (Crowley's pistol). They just never use them for anything besides Angels and Demons.
I'm going with 1.35m / 0.4 demo.
I almost wished it had gone off to provide a delay to season 13. As much as I would like 23 episodes, it would be nice if there was enough time to correct everything that was a disaster in season 12. Dabb can probably barrel right into season 13 now without much interference. What good are 23 episodes if Dean only gets one or two?
That pretty much summed it all up. I hope this means the dam is starting to break and there will be enough of these stories to get the higher ups attention.
I think it went wrong after her "I have to go find myself" speech. It seemed like she abandoned Sam and Dean. Then TPTB spent all their time focusing on how great a hunter she was instead of how great a person she was.
Carver was smart. I know a lot of fans didn't like season 8 but the ratings came back for a reason. Season 8 was a very balanced season. Dean had his purgatory arc. Sam had his trial arc. Sam fans hated Amelia and that he didn't look for Dean. Dean fans hated that he became Sam's nurse and cook. They both had a good balance of monster kills. Carver introduced the Bunker, MoL and had stories for Kevin, Crowley and Cas that weren't as boring as watching paint dry. Season's 9 and 10 started a slight ratings decline as the focus shifted to Dean but the ratings remained relatively stable. Season 11 focused on the saving part and neither brother got a lot of monster kills but they were in it together. It seemed balanced until the point it appeared Dabb started taking control. Dabb is bent on telling the stories he wants whether people watch it or not and that is the biggest threat to this shows survival.
Sam and Dean both fulfilled very specific roles in past seasons and they balanced really well. Dean was the street smart, cynical, bad ass hunter, leader trying to keep everything together. Sam was the book smart, optimistic, computer savvy, empathetic hunter going down the John path. Its understandable for the characters to grow and change. So if he is going to start getting the big kills fine but they need to balance it for Dean. Don't have Sam do all the planning, the leading, the one on one talks, the one that figures out how to kill the monster and all the hunting while Dean stands in the woods. Dean should contribute something...anything and I don't think the negative response would be as bad as it is now.
Now that you mention it there were really only two episodes this entire season where Dean did anything. Other then a demon kill in Stuck in the middle everything else has been off screen. The vampire, the ghoul, wraith and siren were all just in dialog.
"My big fear is that the Winchesters won't get a proper send-off. Certainly Dean won't, and having the character, or characters, just peter out into oblivion is going to leave a bad taste on the entire series."
That is my fear too. If Dabb writes it Sam will die saving the universe while Dean dies tripping over a rake. However it ends, there will probably be enough interest for limited series events or movies on Netflix. If it was something like that then maybe Kripke would be involved or they would give more control to Jensen in the negotiations. No matter how badly Dabb screws it up some one will be able to fix it. Just ask Gamble.
I agree that Dean has more of the big kills and I don't mind Sam getting some too. I just don't like how they went about it. All the big kills until 12 were earned. They went over the course of several episodes. The big kills now are written as check boxes and smack of desperation. Dean killed YED so Sam gets one (even though he was a one off). Sam kills the Alpha who is a "prestige" kill so that helps balance the score, the hell hound is the baddest hellhound ever created but it goes out like every other hellhound shown and finally Sam gets to use the colt again to kill Moloch. Instead of creating a monster the viewers are invested in they just say Sam is killing high level monsters. Ironically, Hitler would be a higher prestige kill since he is a real world evil of the highest order.
I agree that Sam had some background time as well in 9 and 10 and I'm sure Sam fans were as upset as Dean fans are but TPTB need to write these episodes for both groups. Alienating any fan group is going to destroy a show that historically had very stable ratings.
I understand J2 wants more time with their families and I am fine with what they negotiated. The problem has been what they fill the time up with. Mary and Ketch just make me angry when they are on screen. Kelly and Dagon just bored me. Luci and Crowley were fun at first but now it's just them being snarky with each other.
The thing is, they had a character that people were starting to like with Mick but they killed him. The Crowley/Cas buddy cop thing had potential but that went away real quick. Even splitting them up from time to time in episodes would work if one didn't completely vanish *cough*...Dean.
As for Sam getting all the kills, it depends on the story and balance as well. Moloch was the perfect example. They were selling the Dean/colt thing since he said welcome back sweetheart. The photos all showed Dean with the colt. A lot of people have been waiting for him to use it. Not only did that not happen but Dean will never be able to use it again. I think the ratings would have been a little better if Dean had some of the big kill action. Ramiel, the alpha, super hellhound or Moloch. Just one would have taken some of the edge off and not make it look like it was all about Sam.
Look at Dabb's first story for Supernatural, Beginnings End. The family goes to New York and finds the island has been warded, protected against demons and has a militia that kills the monsters that come to the city. The militia seems effective at first but is actually run by a psycho that tries to kill them. Sam gets a solo story where Dean vanishes for most of the issue and the mini series is about Sam and John (Dean is a side character). Sound familiar?
Dabb has always been a Sam fan and has always wanted to tell this story. Singer comes from a time where Sam was suppose to be the star and Dean was suppose to be the sidekick. Dabb came in at that time and believes it even though others realized what a benefit Dean/Jensen were. Now that Dabb is show runner it seems like he is trying to make it into the show he signed up for in the beginning. He obviously loves Sam and seems to be hell bent on proving Sam is better than Dean. He also seems to have an 8 year backlog of rejected story ideas that he is desperately trying to prove were good but have proven to be a disaster for the show.
He may have gotten it out of his system but I fear he knows he is on borrowed time and is going to solely focus on Sam and his "world building" with whatever time he has left.
I was working a theory that episodes where Dean is the hero or at least competent the ratings go up. Episodes where Dean looks like an idiot or others get the kill that should have been his, they go down. I figured the bait in switch with Moloch, particularly without dean using the colt, would cause a rating drop.
Considering last weeks episode has wound everyone up even worse and they destroyed the colt, I think they will be even lower this week.
I am conflicted about this. I want the ratings to go low enough that someone steps in (like season 7) but not so low that the show can't rebound. I think 1.15 and 0.4 is about as low as it can go before they think about wrapping the show up. It's just weird that after 11 seasons of worrying that the ratings weren't high enough now I worry they aren't low enough.
I may be projecting but it seems to me from the boards I have been going too that people are getting angrier with each new episode. If the professional reviews are turning negative as well then hopefully there will be enough "what went wrong?" stories that will convince the CW to step in.
"I can't even with the Colt. What was the point? It was a symbol of hope and salvation for the Winchesters. John left his sons to find it. Dean killed Azazel with it for his Mom. Dabb brought it back as a symbol of betrayal and deceit. And yes Dean didn't even get to use it. Why bring it back at all? It was a poorly written story line that ended in the most anticlimactic way possible."
The colt was brought back as a big F you to Dean fans and a cheap way to give Sam big kills. They destroyed it because it was an icon from when the show was great and they have decided to "deconstruct" everything that made Supernatural great. Wouldn't be surprised if they did the same to Ruby's knife, the bunker and the impala.
I think we are going to hit 0.4. I was wrong about this week but I am very surprised it dropped to 1.40 viewers. That's a 750,000 viewer drop from the premiere. Every week seems to be getting viewers madder and madder. Judging from the reaction of last nights episode, I think more will tune out next week.
That's a present I would gladly share with everyone. :)