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CluelessDrifter's Replies
Oh yeah. Here's the quote that made me think he noticed (He's talking about 12.15 here):
"Both Sam and Dean have great moments, and we see both of them in all five acts, so that should make a lot of people happy."
I think the editing has been off this season, but I don't think that's all that was wrong in that particular episode. I think we were seeing work from someone who is credited as only writing 2 episodes of American Crime. That's it. Other than that he was an uncredited staff writer for 3 episodes of American Crime, a story editor, a writers production assistant, and a production coordinator.
"Claire is a fan favorite? Do they watch the show? or read comments?"
They seem to have this amazing ability to only seek out/find/read the positives and ignore anything negative that's written. The only one I've seen who might take notice is Perez, and that's because he made a comment in an interview for 12.12* and was being coy in giving spoilers by saying something about both brothers being in it. The way it was said made me think he noticed the comments about Dean disappearing during American Nightmare.
*corrected
I remember that tweet. I just didn't remember the episode. It makes me think of Back to the Future for some reason.
"Because Andrew Dabb is the guy who wrote Bloodlines and thinks this BMOL storyline is interesting?"
This is a brilliant answer. :)
"Mick said it was their job to kill monsters and he took a jab at Dean for working with demons and witches (Rowena and Crowley). Mick probably wants to kill Claire."
Yeah, I was thinking that a discussion about Claire lead to him saying what he did about killing monsters.
"I wish he would."
Maybe he will or at least call it in to Ketch? If that's the case then it probably means the BMoL is the thing that will carry over to next season. I was really hoping they were going to wrap that up this season. If I had to choose between them letting Claire live/using this as a springboard for the spin off and the BMoL next season, I'd choose the former.
What precipitated that argument? Was Mick saying they should kill Claire? Maybe there isn't a cure. It also looks like he continues to be a bit of a screw up. Why are they letting him go on the hunt with them next week?
No. I did like Dean getting in Mick's face though.
It would get brooding teens off the show. I quite like Alex though.
It could be. Maybe they think Kathryn got enough recognition with Big Little Lies to be a draw. I'm guessing it'll be Teen Bloodlines with Claire and Kate as werewolves, Alex as the vampire expert, and Jody as the den mother. Maybe Dabb will go do that and leave Supernatural alone.
And I guess they're having Claire say Sam is old now too. That makes a change, I guess.
Sorry. Went off on a bit of a tangent there.
"It lost some of it's heart. But some of it started before S6 I think (in S3 for example by changing the lighting, losing the rock music...) , and I don't want to overlook the good stuff in S6 and 7. The thing is, although there were highs, over the years the usual quality level dropped significantly, too much cheap stuff, playing it safe, getting too comfortable."
I completely agree. S6 and S7 had problems, but I don't think they were as bad as they've been sometimes portrayed. I think that pacing is one of the things that those seasons suffer from the most, and it's a problem that's carried on since then.
The ideas for things like the Alphas and Eve and Cas working with Crowley to stop Raphael would've been better had they been given time to build them up and deliver something powerful over maybe 1.5 seasons, instead of moderately building them up and then having them fizzle out, because the Soulless Sam thing was also going on at the same time. The Leviathan could've probably taken up a bit less time, so .5 a season for that.
Season 8. What to say about Season 8? I would've left the season finale for 7 the same, but done something, like not have a time jump, have Sam going to psychics/witches to find out where Dean was and trying to communicate with him from this side of the grave. I would've had Dean maybe getting messages from Sam and fighting his way through Purgatory trying to survive and find Cas until they could figure out a way to get him out. That could've been 3-4 episodes right there, maybe more depending on what they decided to do. There wouldn't have been any of the manufactured brotherly-angst we got in Season 8. The angst would've come from the brothers being physically separated rather than emotionally separated. Then they could've worked together to get Kevin back once Dean got out of Purgatory. The Cas and Naomi storyline could've been kept the same.
Even if they'd kept all of season 8 as is, Abaddon and the angels in season 9 could've both been more thoroughly explored and made more menacing. If done well, I wouldn't have minded if they'd spread that out over 1.5 seasons either. The MOC/DemonDean/MOC/Darkness storyline suffered from pacing too. Season 6 really seemed to be start of this trend of throwing a bunch of different things into a season that all need to be covered though. We had Azazel for 2 seasons and Lilith for 2 seasons. It doesn't all have to be done in 1 season if it's done well.
That's a good point about the lighting and music. I'd also add that in seasons 1-3 they used 35mm and changed to digital starting in season 4, which made things glossier/less gritty in my opinion. Couple that with the lighting and music differences, and there was a noticeable change that got more pronounced from season 6 onwards when they changed to a different digital format.
Don't get me wrong. I really like the ones she co-wrote with Raelle Tucker too, like I think Dead in the Water gives another layer to Dean in how he talks about his Mom and the way he relates to the kid that still holds true to who Dean is today, and I think that Raelle Tucker probably had a lot to do with that given that she also wrote What Is and Should Never Be, but I also think that Sera Gamble made a big contribution to the early seasons of the show too.
"Here I'm not so sure. The scripts I like best are those that she wrote with Raelle Tucker, the others not so much, so it's hard to say how much credit should be given to whom."
For me, the episodes Gamble did on her own were still pretty good prior to her becoming showrunner. Here's how I'd break them down.
I think these Gamble episodes I dislike: (I'd put The Curious Case of Dean Winchester here, but she co-wrote that with Jenny Klein)
I think these Gamble episodes are okay-ish (range from meh to pretty good, so there's a wide range, but I have and would rewatch these a number of times.): Heart, The Kids Are Alright, Time Is on My Side, IKWYDLS, It's a Terrible Life, When the Levee Breaks (there are a lot of things I don't like in this episode, but it's where the storyline was going), Two Minutes to Midnight
I really like these Gamble episodes: Bloodlust, Crossroad Blues, Houses of the Holy, Are you there God? It's me Dean Winchester, Good God, Y'all,
I love these Gamble episodes: AHBL 1, Fresh Blood, DaLDoM, Jus In Bello
I think that the cracks that have become chasms in the foundations we see today really started when we lost Kim Manners.
Raelle Tucker was definitely a writer this show needed at the start, because she was one of the pieces of the puzzle that helped flesh out the characters and their relationships through dialogue and plot to make them more than the stereotypes that Kripke originally envisioned (The same can be said for Kim Manners).
I think because of how seasons 6 and 7 turned out a lot of people don't give Sera Gamble as much credit as they should for her scripts prior to when she was showrunner. Up until he came back in season 8, the same could be said about Carver (his individual scripts after he came back weren't the best). We lost Edlund, who could be hit or miss towards the end, but who understood the characters.
I would say that hiring writers who weren't there from the start (or at least from season 2 or 3 onwards), who don't have to watch all the episodes before they begin writing, and who don't have a show bible to follow might be one of the worst things that's happened to this show.
23 episodes, but the last two are played back-to-back on the same night.
And it'd keep people who don't want to see spoilers from seeing any, since there aren't any spoiler tabs. I know a thread title for future episodes is probably self-explanatory, but sometimes people click without thinking if it's not clearly marked as having spoilers.
Also, maybe you could make this one for spoilers for Episode 18? There is already a thread for 16 and 17, so doing one for 18 might drum up more eyes and comments?