MovieChat Forums > The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (2021) Discussion > The writing in this show is so frustrati...

The writing in this show is so frustrating

posted 4 years ago by jekporkins (1972)
23 replies | jump to latest

I really want to like this show. I love the characters and I love the brother love/hate thing Sam and Bucky have. They shoudl have gone the sitcom route.

However, the writing is killing me.

1. For the majority of these last few episodes they were in desperate pursuit of the Flag-Smashers and then they decide to stop everything and go home after Cap kills that guy. They spend the rest of the episode running around the US free as birds even though they aided a different terrorist in breaking out of a high-security prison and traveling around Asia and Europe with him. The new Cap almost goes to jail but Buck and Sam? Go work on that boat, boys.

2. Then they were so guilt-ridden over Sharon and how they got pardoned and totally forgot about her for seven years while she was on the run, yet now that they are back fixing the boat can't be bothered to try to get her home. It's not like she didn't help them when they were on the run and saved their lives.

3. Bradley (the older super-soldier that was experimented on) says that the only reason he got out of jail was a nurse had sympathy and lied about his death. This is a guy that, in his own words, was poked and prodded and experimented on for thirty years, yet a quick signed note and he slips out of prison and nobody is the wiser? There would be a line of 100 different doctors and scientists that would want to dissect that cadaver. And since he's in hiding where does he move? South America? Nope... Baltimore, which is 40 miles north of the nation's capital where the Pentagon, FBI, CIA and every other intelligence agency in the US is located.

4. The whole 'fix the boat and let's sell it no fix the boat we need to keep it nobody wants the boat and now it's fixed no let's keep it' has been going on for five episodes. The whole idea that Sam needs to ask neighbors for money is silly. He could call Nike or Delta Airlines and immediately get a sponsorship worth millions. He could do a couple of corporate appearances and make a hundred grand. The show makes a point that he's a world-famous hero. At the very least he should have a phone full of voice-mails from people who would pay for him to come to their kid's birthday parties.

The show's writing doesn't feel thought out or tight, the tropes are obvious and played out, and there doesn't seem to be a structure of "if we do A-then-B-will-happen-to-get-us-to-C." For instance, it's lucky for Sam his buddy comes out of nowhere to point out Sam's gallivanting around the globe chasing terrorists was a waste that really went nowhere because he has suddenly has an app for that which shows where the Flag Smashers will be hitting next.

[–] ManToTrust (1660) 4 years ago

I agree that the energy and focus is inconsistent. I'd like to give Disney the benefit of the doubt that they had to mix up the storylines due to covid interruptions, but I don't know.

FWIW though, I particularly liked the character driven storylines of ep 4 & 5, even if 5 was lacking in action. Actually, especially that 5 was lacking in action, it just made it more tense for me due to the anticipation. I'd love it if the whole series had a 5 tone!

[–] Bercilak (300) 4 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Bercilak (300) 4 years ago

These are all valid--and excellent--criticisms. The show is all over the place, tonally, and story wise. Often it feels like it was written by 47 different people, half of whom have ADD and none of whom talk to one another.

I really wanted to like this show, but it's so sophomorically written that it's impossible. I'd give it a D+.

[–] jekporkins (1972) 4 years ago

Yeah, glad you notice it too. There is a whole lot of stuff jammed in that doesn't fit. It does feel like a whole lot of cooks in here spoiled the broth.

I think a D+ is spot on.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 4 years ago

2. Five out of those seven years they "forgot" about Sharon, they were dust. What would you expect them to do when they don't exist? I don't think they forgot necessarily, they may have just thought she was doing alright and didn't realize how bad off she was. Clearly they remembered her enough to ask her for help, so they didn't just forget.

4. I didn't get the impression that Sam asked his neighbors for money, more so just general help. Some of them could have had access to materials needed so Sam wouldn't have needed a loan to buy them.

[–] jekporkins (1972) 4 years ago

I feel like you're avoiding my points though...

2. Sam and Bucky felt bad about Sharon, yet they are back home and not a peep is spoken about getting Sharon out, even though she recently saved their butts and risked her life (again) at the docks.

4. Glad his neighbor could bake him cookies or help paint the bow... The whole point of Sam asking for help is he was desperate for money. He shouldn't be.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 4 years ago

2. I understand that, but should he not also be there for his family who he was also away from for five years? To him Sharon probably isn't the number one priority, especially with the Flag Smashers still out there.

4. You'd think that's the case, but it wouldn't surprise me in the current state of the world that it happened the way it did.

[–] MasterPenguin (165) 4 years ago

2. Captain America just messed someone up and killed them in front of the world. Wasn’t exactly the best time to be asking for favours to get Sharon back.

3. I agree this seems odd and honestly was forced to give added drama. I didn’t mind it but Tony definitely would have had ways to make sure these guys had money. But then again Peter still seems like a poor kid who just has access to Happy even though Tony definitely would have left him more than just those glasses.

Also in regards to Sharon while I understand why Sam and Buck didn’t do anything when they got back. It really doesn’t make any sense she was on the run this entire time anyway. Steve and Nat would have easily gotten her set up and back in America. She really should have only been on the run for same amount of time Cap was. Once the snap happened it really seems after that Cap and Nat weren’t on run anymore and all that was brushed under the rug because everything went crazy.

So makes no sense Sharon was on the run that entire time especially since Steve had a thing for her and even if he didn’t he knew she was Peggys niece so would have helped her anyway.

In the comics I know she had people mess with her mind and she was brainwashed so kinda hope that’s the route they go down since really otherwise doesn’t fit with the character we saw in the in the movies but feels weird she would essentially become like hydra

[–] ATG6 (3000) 4 years ago

Yeah, no one had the money to pay him back, so he collected on free labor. Win-win.

And Bucky hitting on Sam's sister was hilarious. Just tell her he's like 105 years old, and an ex-killer.

[–] TheArgentinian (7073) 4 years ago

The boat is a metaphor, dude.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

5. What's Rhodes doing? It does make zero sense for Warmachine not to join them and pursuit the Flag Smashers.

The Sam vs banker scene was ridiculous. An Avenger would never have any money problems or go broke. One call to Pepper would be enough. The more you think about it the more ridiculous Sam's financial 'problems' get.

Not sure about #2 though. Sharon never asked for help, and Sam did say he'd do everything he could for a pardon to happen.

That being said, I could watch an hour-long version of them repairing the boat or Isiah talking to Sam.

[–] MasterPenguin (165) 4 years ago

Rhodes is simple, Don Cheldle is to expensive for them to afford just for a TV show outside of his first episode cameo. But agree doesn’t make sense he wouldn’t be involved unless they show in future movie that during this he was off on a seperate mission. Though simple line of “why isn’t war machine here?” “Oh he’s got his own missions to do”. Simple bam.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

> ... Don Cheadle is too expensive...

Well, they did 23 movies which brought them 1 billion on average (totally earned btw). I doubt that plus-minus 1 million for a cameo of Dr. Strange for WandaVision and Old Steve Rogers for this one would have made a negative impact. Disney/Marvel missed the opportunity to show off.

[–] MasterPenguin (165) 4 years ago

Would be way more than a million for the cameo. They’re A listers they cost a lot.

Plus Don Cheadle the way was framed wouldn’t be a cameo but much more involved which would be expensive.

Especially when you factor in wandavision cost 200mil and falcon and winter cost 150mil from a streaming series which they aren’t going to make profit from like they would on movies. So they’re not going to drop even more money just for one extra actor. It’s essentially an expensive marketing campaign to get some more people subscribed and to set up future movies.

Chris evans doesn’t have a contract with them anymore so would have been a pain getting him back. Doctor strange have to think they’re going to have it he was off doing something else and wasn’t around otherwise he would definitely have been involved. A cameo would have made it hard to justify him not being there at all without giving potential spoilers away for their next movie. I would have loved cameos from them both but I also understand why any and all cameos were low level ones.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

You're probably right. Still, it would have been cool to see old Cap and Fury on a secret moon base in a post-credit scene talking about Falcon's costume.

[–] MasterPenguin (165) 4 years ago

Oh no doubt it would have been amazing and Jackson will happily do those kind of cameos as well. I feel if Evans was still under contract they probs could have done it but this point he’s finished with it all.

[–] Techto (1299) 4 years ago

Yeah, the writing is pretty bad — lots of cliches and long boring stretches. I might check it out again later but I’m giving up on it for now.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

It's frustrating because it doesn't work. Every fucking article and review written about this show - and many a fan comment - is about Walker, getting the shield away from him, and racism. Never mind the terrorists running around killing people. They're just misunderstood. Or the fact that Sam and Bucky are working with another terrorist in Zemo. This show is ridiculous and poorly planned.

[–] jekporkins (1972) 4 years ago

I'm trying to avoid the shoehorning in of racism since everyone will focus on that, but yeah, Bradley saying 'they will never let a black man be Captain America' rang hollow. I mean, Steve gave Sam the shield and the mantle. He could have been Captain America but he turned it down! On top of that, Bradley is saying this while there was recently a two-term black POTUS and there is currently a black Vice President.

But you're right - the Zemo issue is unbearable. This is one of the biggest terrorists in the world and they were running around the world with him (in Zemo's plane no less). It's not even mentioned and they didn't even get a slap on the hand. On top of it all, Bucky gives him to Wakanda, so as far as Interpol or the UN are concerned, Zemo is STILL on the loose. You can't just 'give a guy up' without procedures, approvals, court appearances, the whole 9 yards. If that was the case Wakanda would have had him ages ago.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

"John. You gotta give me that shield, man." The episode literally kicks off with them trying to take the shield away from Walker. This is a bigger priority to them than THE TERRORISTS. This is where their priorities lie. It's just plain bad writing. In no way is that more important than stopping Morgantheau. In a show where Bucky has killed countless people and given a PARDON, Walker is the scum of the Earth for killing a terrorist. *facepalm* It's not a problem that they want to take Walker in - now that he's killed and in the manner he killed - but that they think getting the shield away from him, arresting him, is a bigger issue than the main villains of the show; who nobody seems to care about.

Torres literally says, "Captain America killing a foreign national is kind of a big deal." And Bucky breaking out a terrorist and Sam and Bucky working with Zemo isn't?! This show is moronic. It's so caught up in it's agendas and messages that it's just ignoring common sense and logic.

I don't hate the Isiah Bradley stuff. I like Carl Lumby. Justice League, South Central, Alias, even his small BSG role - I've known and like the guy for a long time. I think his scenes are well done in this show. I don't mind this character being around, but racism, Walker, big bad government all end up being "worse" than The Flag Smashers, Bucky and Sam doing whatever they want with no repercussions, THAT is the problem.