Nothing Will Change The Truth
The government wanted a confrontation, got one, then murdered and destroyed evidence to hide what they did.
shareThe government wanted a confrontation, got one, then murdered and destroyed evidence to hide what they did.
shareTrue very true, BUT let’s not forget...
the Davidians and koreshhh were no innocent doves; feeding the poor and taking care of widows either!
What laws where they breaking?
Koresh could have been taken while out on his jogs, or on his usually trips into town.
Government agencies wanted a show to raise their budgets, and they had to kill to cover up their mistakes.
Just a little anti-government paranoia there, John Kyle?
"In 2001, Second Amendment lawyer David Hardy co-authored a book, “This Is Not an Assault: Penetrating the Web of Official Lies Regarding the Waco Incident,” detailing his years of efforts to pry information about what happened from the federal government, in concert with Michael McNulty, one of the makers of the Oscar-nominated 1997 documentary, “Waco: Rules of Engagement.”
Hardy, who had worked for a decade as a U.S. Interior Department lawyer, unearthed through a Freedom of Information request an ATF “report of investigation” of two undercover agents, who had moved in across from Mount Carmel. They went shooting with Koresh eight days before the raid, an easy opportunity to arrest him if they had wanted to."..........
Yes, Bovard said, there have been exaggerated claims about what happened at Mount Carmel, beginning with Linda Thompson’s sensational half-hour documentary, “Waco: The Big Lie,” which came out in 1993, and was played to the jury at McVeigh’s trial to help explain what was in his head.
“You don’t need to say that the government used a flamethrower. You simply look at the fact that the government used tanks and toxic gas on its own people,” Bovard said this month.
“From my perspective, the most important lesson is to see how federal agencies can use so much deadly force against American citizens for no good reason that left scores of people dead and federal agencies paid no price, aside from budget increases."
Asked to assess the lasting meaning of the Waco siege, Reavis paused.
“I’m not sure in the long run it means that much,” he said. “I say that thanks to my wife. I took her to Mount Carmel a few days after it burned down. And she’s Venezuelan and she looked at all the ashes and she said, ‘I never thought I’d get a chance to see what y’all did to the Indians,’ and I thought, what the hell was that? And if you notice, my book is dedicated to Sitting Bull because he was the David Koresh of his era.”.........In 1890, the Lakota chief was shot and killed in a botched attempt to bring him in for questioning about his role in an apocalyptic Ghost Dance movement. Fourteen days later, soldiers of the Army 7th Cavalry Regiment, concerned about the Ghost Dance believers, massacred hundreds of Sioux men, women and children at Wounded Knee, S.D., for which 20 soldiers later received the Medal of Honor.
“This is one more reiteration of ‘pull the trigger too fast United States,’” Reavis said. “That’s our history.”
At the Waco siege, he said, “They didn’t have to go in after 51 days. The FBI was tired of Waco, but you don’t kill people because of that.”
https://www.statesman.com/news/20180416/a-quarter-century-later-dark-theories-still-hover-over-waco-siege
Yeah its a disgrace what they did to those people, it wasn't like they was The Manson Family and David was sending them out to kill people, they was just living there keeping to themselves not hurting anyone. And David treated them all well from everything i've read and seen about him. David Thibodeau still holds David in high regard and has nothing but nice things to say about him.
The most you could say was David was taking advantage of women i guess, but that didn't call for what happened, they went in there like they was trying to take down a terrorist.
Why the hell were they stockpiling enough semiauto weapons to arm a god damn country then? For what purpose? Isnt THAT why they were raided?
shareI'll just copy and paste this here from a very detailed article about ten neglected facts about Waco, this is number 2 of 10.
"2. The Arms: The Branch Davidians were not “hording weapons” nor were they any threat to their neighbors or the public. Their stock of arms was no more a “hoard” than the inventory of any licensed gun dealer in Texas. Actually, per person, all told, they owned less guns than the average Texas citizen. The “illegal” guns in question, weapons converted from semi- to fully automatic are not “illegal,” but apparently the Davidians had failed to fill out the proper paperwork and pay the required fees for such weapons. Such registration violations surely do not merit armed assault. The Davidians traded their weapons regularly at gun shows and used such commerce to financially support their community. The Davidians did believe in self-defense and part of their motivation for having arms was just such a contingency as that of the BATF assault February 28th."
They just had them to trade and for self defense if they ever had to defend themselves.
The BTAF shot at them first, David pleaded with them and told them there was women and children inside and they shot anyways. innocent women and children was killed that day because of the BATF.
"3. The Assault: Koresh went to the door and said “Don’t shoot, there are women and children in here,” and Harvard Law School graduate Wayne Martin called 911 and begged the authorities to stop the shooting as soon as it started. Video footage plainly shows BATF agents firing multiple rounds into the thin frame building at Mt. Carmel, shielded behind the vehicles parked in front. None of the windows of the vehicles are shattered by return fire, no guns appear in the curtained windows. Agents also fired from helicopters above down into the building full of women and children. A few Davidians did fire back, but most cowered"
Did you see the video of their stockpile? They had literally hundreds of assault rifles. And they were buying grenades, silencers and modifiers for the assault rifles. The ATF isnt going to raid your home if you're simply just teaching God's word.
shareYou keep ignoring the FACT that Koresh could have been taken peacefully (alone) several times.
Once he was in custody the others would have (guaranteed) given themselves up without further incident.
A completely unnecessary ATTACK against US citizens that (predictably) ended tragically.
It was then whitewashed by our government. No one was held accountable for their atrocious decision making.
I remember watching this when I was very young live on CNN. I honestly thought they were going in hard on terrorist or something.
shareDidn't he rape children?
shareYes. John conveniently leaves that out. And the Branch Davidians weren't saints. They were extremists, cultists, wackos. The only reason Koresh ended up in charge was because another guy was jailed for murder.
shareAnd he's repeatedly encouraged to surrender.
Over and over...
All he had to do is actually surrender himself and spare the lives of practically everyone.
That's a sacrifice!
Now there's no doubt what happened was horrific...but all he had to do was get on his big boy pants (i hate that phrase, but it always makes sense) and exit the building with his hands in the air.
Different timeline--He goes to jail and everyone lives! By now...he'd be out (along with Hinckley) and probably make out like a millionaire (book deals, interviews, tv/movie deals).
"5.The Standoff: David Koresh did not repeatedly lie to the FBI during the 51 Day siege. There is not a single documented lie he told the whole time of the standoff. He wanted to come out peacefully but had two concerns—that his message would somehow be communicated to the outside without distortion and that what happened on February 28th would be fairly handled in legal proceedings. He sent out all the children but his own, and all his adult followers whom he judged might not be strong enough or have enough conviction to stay through to the end. He was worried that the Davidians would be arrested, charged with murder, thrown in jail, and evidence destroyed, plus the faith they held be cast as one more crazy cult message. He reversed his March 2nd pledge to exit after the radio broadcast of his message because it was not really broadcast widely and he believed he received a “Word” from God to wait. His pledge to exit on April 14th was in good faith and he was convinced that at least there was a way to insure both the purity of his message and the proper legal treatment of him and his people."
Now should he have surrendered? yes, but he had his reasons, they hadn't exactly shown him they was very trustworthy or good people out there. For all he knew they was gonna plant evidence and lie and get him and his followers life in prison and convince the world they was just another looney cult that wanted to kill everyone. They had every opportunity to get Koresh when he was alone, they chose to move in on him when he was there with all his people and children. Any way you spin it they knew it was gonna lead to a big standoff and thats what they wanted.
Yes they could’ve grabbed him when he was alone. But put yourself in the shoes of law enforcement. He goes missing. Then what? They know these other guys are armed to the heavens. Our leader is missing? Arm up. They would’ve put all the other Davidians on high alert with a stockpile of weaponry, grenades etc. Each side is to blame. They should’ve grabbed him alone. Yes. He should’ve surrendered after the first foray to spare everyone else in the compound. He was in there for like 2 months. I’m surprised they were as patient as they were.
shareHe goes missing and his followers would have come out peacefully....without Koresh binding them together they would never have put their children in jeopardy.
The ATF was 95% to blame for Waco/Mt Carmel tragedy.
For anyone defending the ATF, you are either willfully ignorant or trolling.
Your government lies, every government lies to save face.
Another good example is how Richard Jewel was treated. The FBI did their best to frame him for the ‘96 Atlanta bombing...thankfully they failed.
If you honestly believe your government wouldn’t throw you under the bus to serve their own purposes, you are a sheep of the highest order.