Will MCU ever be able to get back to the level of EPICNESS they encountered with Endgame... - Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion

[–] DisneyAlwaysWINS (69) 6 years ago

It sounds difficult but I think they'll build up the next avengers a lot slower. There's just so much content for them to mine from with all the Fox properties returned in X-men, Fantastic Four, Deadpool and the various countless villains associated.

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[–] Mcboogerballs (118) 6 years ago

Oh right ...

I forgot that they will now have access to the X-men and FF clan as well. I guess that will hype up some interest, if done well

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[–] EvilPinata (1186) 6 years ago

I think it's possible as long as they keep producing quality content and give us characters we care about. I'm already relatively invested in the newer heroes introduced such as Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and Black Panther so I'm excited to see what becomes of them. Not to mention the characters Marvel now has rights to due to the Fox merger.

I don't think it will ever get as big as Endgame necessarily, but I think it'll be close.

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[–] LordBAElish (2015) 6 years ago

What exactly is the plan for Marvel phase 4? Spiderman, Dr. Strange, Gurdian, Black Panther sequels? Is Black Widow getting a movie (have to be in the past). I can't imagine another Avengers movie being great. IronMan is dead, Cap is old, Thor is fat. The big 3...

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8711) 6 years ago

Yeah, the coolest and most likable characters are all being retired. Not only that, but supposedly Captain Marvel is essentially going to step into Cap's place as the leader of the Avengers, and a lot of people hate her.

I'll keep an eye on what Marvel/Disney does from here on out, but I am instantly much less invested than I was before.

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[–] Goliard (1421) 6 years ago

". . .but supposedly Captain Marvel is essentially going to step into Cap's place as the leader of the Avengers, and a lot of people hate her."

You must have a Special definition of "a lot of people." Her solo movie, out the gate, has earned $1,110,662,849 and counting. With a cinemascore rating of A. These "lot of people" you're referring to simply don't exist, no matter how much her detractors want them to. Like Bill Burr said, these days five people w/a hashtag can spark a "movement." It means NOTHING. Captain Marvel has done stunningly well, and Marvel will be just fine.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8711) 6 years ago

It made a lot of money, but certainly the backlash against Brie Larson and some of her comments was significant. There was no similar backlash against, say, Captain America or Thor.

I'm sure they will continue to make money, but that doesn't mean that the future movies will actually be as interesting. Personally I don't find Captain Marvel to be nearly as interesting of a character as Captain America and I'm not especially interested in seeing her as the de facto leader of the group.

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[–] Goliard (1421) 6 years ago

??? I'll repeat. . .the backlash was IN NO WAY "Significant." Over a BILLION dollars in tickets, an "A" Cinemascore, a continuing trajectory for the franchise in general and the character in particular, and not incidentally a slate of highly entertaining movies. What "backlash?"

Again: the fact that a small but vocal minority continues to rattle their sabers is Inconsequential. In *ANY* sense: financial, critical reception, etc, etc.

Your personal preferences aside (even though I also prefer Steve Rogers as a character), the continuing narrative that it matters is simply Wrong.

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[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

The Billion Dollars has nothing to do with the quality of that film.The move was the worst MCU film to date, I've heard a lot of people agree with this.

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[–] Goliard (1421) 6 years ago

You *do* realize there is no arbiter of quality, yes?
While you may feel it was the worst to date, a billion dollars worth of people do Not. Can't believe I have to repeat this ad infinitum: regardless of the "a lot" of people you've heard (10? 20? Did you really talk to a hundred people?) There are Orders Of Magnitude *more* who disagree, and liked the movie just fine. AND voted with their dollars.
No, this has nothing to do with your idea of "quality." It has to do with Theirs. Who's right? Does the concept even have any currency? (Hint: NO)

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[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

It's obvious to most people that Captain Marvel was a bad film. It made Box office because of the 10 years of good films that preceded it. Obviously the fact that TLJ made a billion is a reflection of the popularity of Starwars, not the quality of that film. The sequel will bom

If you want "objective" measures of quality, the IMDB score is 7.1 after only 2 months of release, which means it will be below 7 by the end of the year, making it the lowest rated film apart from the Incredible Hulk in the MCU. That film has been out for 11 years, I expect in 11 years Captain Marvel will have a worse rating.

The Rotten Tomatoes score is 78%, and "girlpower" or "blackpower" films get about a 20% bump, so it's rotten in real terms(the critic and audience scores are similar to Ghostbusters)

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[–] Goliard (1421) 6 years ago

"It's obvious to most people that Captain Marvel was a bad film."

You keep saying different versions of this. And I keep trying to explain that it's just Not True. You have NO way of knowing what "most people" think. And there is no mythical absolute scale that allows for such a judgement. Endof.

To continue to insist that you know what the consensus is about something so completely subjective is just absurd.

And no. . .IMDB is no metric. Neither is RT. Neither is your completely-pulled-out-of-thin-air 20% bump. Full stop; None of what you're claiming is true.

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[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

IMDB and RT are not a metric, but BO is. Right. I'll get back to you in 3 years when Captain Marvel 2 predictably flops. But that will probably just be a lucky guess by me.

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[–] Goliard (1421) 6 years ago

Nah, get back to me after the next few Marvel movies. That should be a pretty good indicator of how well their strategy is working, in general.

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[–] alienzen (1931) 6 years ago

here are the RT scores from all of the MCU films:

Endgame: critic: 95 - Audience: 91 - difference: (+4)
Captain Marvel: critic: 78 - Audience: 56 - difference: (+22)
Antman and the Wasp: critic:88 - Audience: 76 - difference: (+12)
Infinity War: critic: 86 - Audience:91 - difference: (-5)
Black Panther: 97 - 79 - (+18)
Ragnarok: 92 - 87 - (+5)
Homecoming: 92 - 88 - (+4)
GotG2: 84 -87 - -(3)
Doctor Strange: 89 -86 - (+3)
Civil War : 91 - 89 - (+2)
Ant Man : 82 - 86 - (-4)
Age of Ultron : 75 - 83 - (-8)
GotG : 91 - 92 - (-1)
Wintor soldier : 90 - 92 - (-2)
The Dark world : 66 - 76 - (-10)
Iron Man 3 : 79 - 78 - (+1)
The Avengers: 92 - 91 - (+1)
The First Avenger: 80 - 74 - (+6)
Thor: 77 - 76 (+1)
Iron Man 2 : 73 -71 (+2)
The Incredible Hulk; 67 -70 - (+3)
Iron Man: 93 - 91 - (+2)

there is my "pulled out of thin air" bump. Of the other 19 films, the average critic and audience score deviates by 0.05%. Captain Marvel, Antman and the Wasp, and Black Panther all have bigger gaps than any of the other films. Antman and the Wasp even gets a half bonus because it has a woman and a man as the title characters.

Still don't believe it?

ghosbusters(2016) - 74 - 51 - (+23)

It's probably just all those mysogynists voting it down right? Oh but wait, Wonder Woman, who all the same people who hated Captain Marvel seemed to like:

93 - 88 - (+5)

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8711) 6 years ago

I think the jury is out on what the future holds for the MCU. Will future movies continue to bring in the massive hauls that the previous movies have? Or are we going to see the earnings taper off?

I know that I personally am less interested. I did not go see Captain Marvel, even though many did and even though I normally do see Marvel films. Whether or not I go see future MCU movies depends entirely on whether the films actually look interesting. With Cap, Thor and Stark gone, I think the franchise has a lot less shine than it did before the release of Endgame. Those were the Big 3--for me at least--and now they're all non-factors.

If I feel that way, then there's going to be someone else who feels that way too.

I'm sure the MCU films will continue to make money but I don't know how many more $1 billion+ entries there will be.

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[–] Goliard (1421) 6 years ago

"I think the jury is out on what the future holds for the MCU. Will future movies continue to bring in the massive hauls that the previous movies have? Or are we going to see the earnings taper off?"

Most definitely. There's a seismic shift coming; a Lot is about to change. Will it work? Shrug. I know I wouldn't bet against them.

"I know that I personally am less interested. I did not go see Captain Marvel, even though many did and even though I normally do see Marvel films. Whether or not I go see future MCU movies depends entirely on whether the films actually look interesting."

I get that. Makes perfect sense; it's a personal preference.

"If I feel that way, then there's going to be someone else who feels that way too."

But *this* is an interesting transference. Of Course there's *someone* else who feels that way. But are there two? Five? A thousand? Most importantly: enough that it makes a difference to the franchise's future cachet, critical reception, and/or profitability?

I'd bet MONEY the answer is no.

"I'm sure the MCU films will continue to make money but I don't know how many more $1 billion+ entries there will be."

Again, if I could buy stock in the franchise, I would. In a heartbeat. They have a proven track record, an inexhaustible source of material, a built-in and expanding fan base, and all the momentum in the World. Recipe for success.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8711) 6 years ago

Well as I said, the jury is out. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

But I am reminded of the situation with The Last Jedi. The Last Jedi pissed a lot of people off. It also made over a billion dollars. By that accounting, The Last Jedi was a great success.

But we saw a lot of that ill will manifest itself in the box office earnings for Solo. It was, to my knowledge, the first ever Star Wars film to actually lose money during its theatrical run.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/solo-will-post-first-loss-disneys-star-wars-empire-1116927

I think there were a number of reasons Solo lost money. Part of it was Star Wars fatigue, part of it was a lack of interest in a Han Solo origin story, and part of it was grievances against The Last Jedi.

I think, similarly, there are a lot of factors that can contribute to decreased earnings for Marvel films.

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[–] Goliard (1421) 6 years ago

"But I am reminded of the situation with The Last Jedi. The Last Jedi pissed a lot of people off. It also made over a billion dollars. By that accounting, The Last Jedi was a great success."

You're conflating situations, here. Captain Marvel *didn't* piss a lot of people off. Neither did the follow up Avengers movie. CM made over a billion and counting; EG will probably rake in close to three billion. By ANY accounting, both were Smash successes. I don't see a scenario where these last two Marvel movies negatively impact future projects.

"I think there were a number of reasons Solo lost money. Part of it was Star Wars fatigue, part of it was a lack of interest in a Han Solo origin story, and part of it was grievances against The Last Jedi."

I think that's Spot On. All three contributed, and I'd add in the fact that it simply wasn't a good enough movie for people to forgive those issues.

"I think, similarly, there are a lot of factors that can contribute to decreased earnings for Marvel films."

As you say: we'll have to wait and see. Fatigue and lack of interest are non issues; that just leaves the "grievances" part, which has had NO effect so far. My money's on a continued track record of success for Marvel.

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[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1356) 6 years ago

Who knows but it doesn't really seem likely. Everything has pretty much run its course.

***SPOILERS***

All the main characters have run their story arcs and they are finished. Since Tony is dead, Nat is dead, Captain American is an elderly man and with Thor going off to do whatever it is he is going to do, Hulk is calm professor Hulk now everything seems anti-climactic now.

I know they can still do Spider-man movies and Captain Marvel movies...maybe another Ant-Man film but I wouldn't predict those to have the same passion and interest levels as we had with the main draws.

To me the Marvel movie I'm most interested in now is Guardians of the Galaxy III...assuming they are going to do that. I still love watching Peter, Drax, Rocket, Groot and Gamora (wherever they go with her story now...I suppose Nebula too).

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[–] Mcboogerballs (118) 6 years ago

Quite agree with you

These 22 odd movies have plenty of novelty factor. Relatable Origin stories with relatable characters, plenty of humor, epic cross over events etc. Now all this will just not work to pull in massive audiences again. They will have to bring out other factors (not entirely sure what) to make it an event movie. Simple crossovers just wont work.

I somehow dont see how Spiderman or Capt Marvel can be as relatable as Tony, Bruce, Steve, Nat and even Odinson Thor. GOTG crowd was also very relatable despite being a band of misfits. I hope they give an Epic GOTG 3 movie - especially now that they have Nebula for company. She was the dark horse in Endgame and I loved how she got such a big chunk of role in a movie otherwise focused on the original Avengers (and rightly so)

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 6 years ago

How bout Marvel vs Star Wars crossover universe? GotG is almost Star Wars anyway, so it would not be too jarring if they went to Jakku or Tatooine in GotG 3 end credit scene.

I think it would be really BIG!

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[–] AP (5288) 6 years ago

Why don't you think Spider-Man is relateable?

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[–] Galactus03 (4373) 6 years ago

Ikr..lol...Spiderman is Marvel Comics flagship character. The fact that he came into the MCU late (and the way it was done) has made many forget this. As much as I like Iron Man, Cap and Thor they are just under Spiderman when it comes to the comic books...

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[–] QBall (23) 6 years ago

Considering Feige said Captain Marvel will be the focus of the MCU going forward, I would answer your question with a big nope.

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[–] TandyMan (11096) 6 years ago

Sure. Once they crank out 20 X-Men movies.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 6 years ago

Haha true. Along with 9 Wolverine stand alone movies.

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[–] SoCrates (874) 6 years ago

It depends on what they do with X-Men, Fantastic Four, Silver Surfer, ect.

There are still A LOT of great story lines for them to bring to film.

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[–] movienchill31 (223) 6 years ago

I am a Marvel Fan first and foremost. With that being said though, I really don't see how they can pull off any other Avenger movie without Iron Man and Cap. And you might as well include Hulk and Hawkeye in that too because Hulk didn't really do ANYTHING in Endgame and Hawk probably wants to spend more time with his family.

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